Mike Napoli And The Ripple Effect
Joey MatschulatOne of the first revelations to strike you after studying the market of any professional team sport for any length of time is that every signing/trade has consequences -- some good, some bad, some inconsequential (heh), some involving playing time/roles, some involving performance, some involving the soothing of bruised egos, and so forth. The manner in which those consequences affect the team ultimately determine the perceived success of the transaction, and, to a lesser degree, the success of the team and the employment (or lack thereof) of the people who presided over the transaction(s) in the first place. We're all very well aware of how this is supposed to work, even if it doesn't actually always unfold that way.
And generally speaking, the more complex or high-profile a transaction is, the more likely it is to have a wide or significant array of consequences attached. I say "generally speaking" because I don't think the typical trade comprising the exchange of two good, but certainly not great, players has this many different little ramifications across so many areas of the above-stated spectrum:
The Bullpen: There are depth, performance and role ramifications all stemming from the departure of Frank Francisco -- the first two of which likely aren't good for Texas no matter how sunny your outlook may be on things, and the last of which will no doubt infuriate some to no end. A few scarring ninth-inning meltdowns and injuries notwithstanding, Francisco was an above-average strikeout reliever for the better part of his time in Texas and a consistent 50- to 60-inning pitcher that could be deployed in late-inning situations with relative confidence. Aside from the clear and apparent hit to the established bullpen depth, there's also the matter of one of a number of relatively unproven pitchers stepping up in his absence. This could very well happen, but the high variability of relievers and the depth situation is such that you can at least envision this becoming an on-going problem. I'm hopeful that it'll work out, but not anything approaching arrogantly confident.
What is more likely to ruffle feathers is the notion that losing Francisco all but locks Neftali Feliz into the ninth-inning role for the 2011 season -- a proposition that has never appealed to those who want to see him get his shot in the rotation sooner rather than later, or those who inherently believe he can furnish greater value pitching every fifth day. I persist in leaning towards the side that doubts whether this is the right time to pull the trigger on that move, but my position feels a little stronger today, unless you're so mindblowingly confident that you think two ancient southpaws will keep killing it, Darren O'Day will continue to bamboozle the league, Alexi Ogando will handily overcome whatever adjustments the league has ordered against him, and so forth.
The Outfield: The ostensibly poor quality of Mike Napoli's defensive chops behind the plate is such that he probably won't be doubling as Yorvit Torrealba's primary backup, and with that in mind the Rangers -- barring any more wild transactional escapades -- appear to have their 13 position players all but locked in, albeit with no backup plan in center field beyond Josh Hamilton. This would have been the same case had Texas inked Jim Thome or Manny Ramirez, but it's no less unnerving now than it was in either of those cases, and I have to wonder what ends up happening if Julio Borbon falls flat on his face again, and if the Rangers are prepared to incur the risk associated with rolling him out there on an everyday basis in the event that things go awry with Borbon ... again.
The Face: At first glance, this article penned by FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal -- in which he states his belief that the Rangers still want to trade their putative face of the franchise, Michael Young -- prompted me to wonder if he wrote it with the aid of his jump-to-conclusions mat, but hey, it's Rosenthal. He says the Rockies still want Young more than a month after the winter meetings, and I can only presume that's based on actual conversations with Rockies personnel rather than unfounded speculation. The sequence of players pursued by Texas in these preceding weeks absolutely supports the theory that Texas wanted more offensive punch than what their in-house options at 1B/DH could provide, and Young apparently still thinks of himself as a temporary DH ... which is fine and all, because he can think whatever helps him sleep better at night, but where does he think an expanded positional role (e.g. more than 80 games) is going to come from in the next few years? Where does anyone think it's going to come from?
The more I've thought about it, the more I've wondered if this notion I proposed back on December 8th actually does make sense -- is Texas willing to eat a decent-sized chunk of his remaining $40-plus million salary commitment in exchange for expanded roster flexibility over the next three seasons, and not having to be forced into committing no fewer than 550-600 plate appearances in each of those seasons to a player whose bat really doesn't play all that well at first base or designated hitter? Is Colorado willing and able to assume the remaining salary commitment? And if any or all of the above is in fact true, is Texas working under the assumption that they can overcome the P.R. hit and contain fan backlash so long as they keep on winning? Because that final assumption may not be such a terribly misguided assumption, after all.
I haven't yet worked out all the details in my head, but if there will ever be a time for the Rangers to trade Michael Young (and understand that I'm not outright advocating it, nor begrudging your emotional reasons for not wanting to see it happen), this window is the time for it to happen. It almost certainly won't happen, but then we were all thinking virtually the exact same thing before the Rangers signed Adrian Beltre on that happiest of days three weeks ago, and I don't believe it's wise to ever completely rule out any possibility with this team.
Reader Comments (72)
This is so fun to watch JD work an offseason with some cash to spend. Every idea we talk about here or over at LSB it seems that JD has explored/attempted. And when one of those ideas makes a whole lot of sense it seems JD gets it done, or at least tries real hard to get it done. I wouldn't be shocked with a MY trade because it makes sense, especially if someone is in desperate need of a 3B/2B and wants to take the defensive warts of MY along with his bat that plays reasonably well at those positions. The PR hit would be substantial to the casual fan, but if you signed Josh and Nellie to long term extensions the next day and sold it as "we had to trade away Young to be able to keep these guys" I think the casual fans would buy it. Plus they're busy celebrating getting rid of Frankie who it seems everyone hates despite the fact he is really really good.
I keep wondering about the concerns of keeping Hamilton out of center field. Installing Bourbon not only weakens the batting order but it benches Murphy who showed me last year that he's an everyday player. I have never cringed with Murph coming up with men on base. True, center fielders have to run to both gaps but walls can be hit by any fielder. What about other strong hitting CF's? Do their teams keep them out of it? It's a risk that is to be lived with and allows Hammy's maturity to keep such risks in check. If he does get hurt, he gets hurt and someone else steps up. Running hard on the bases is a risk. If he needs rest to make a season, DH him every fourth or fifth day. I love the OF of Murph, Ham and Cruz.
JD, JD, JD, JD, JD!!!!!
Don't forget poor Vlad!
While I do like this trade, I can't shake the concerns over our lack of (proven) OF and RP depth pointed out above. We have a lot of talented arms in the org, and Gentry and Chavez are passable options (especially defensively), but I wouldn't mind seeing the club try to flesh out their spring roster with some NRIs. These names are never very sexy, but they could bring in Juan Cruz or Manny Delcarmen, neither of whom has pitched very effectively since 2008, or even someone like David Riske (although Maddux might advise to stay away on that one).
The other player, who admittedly doesn't play CF but who continues to intrigue me, is former uberprospect and LHP smasher Lastings Milledge. I can't see him getting a major league deal at this point, and with constant injury concerns around Hamilton and Cruz, I'd be a "nice to have" rather than a "need to have" for him to be stashed away in Round Rock to start the year.
With a Michael Young departure, there would have to be some P.R. blacklash amongst the majority of Rangers fans, who generally aren't sabre- or insider-slanted baseball fans. How important of a consideration is this, and does JD factor even need to factor this in?
Maybe this means they'll be trading Murph for some pitching depth, freeing up his spot for Gentry
I must say I don't understand the concern with OF. We will roll with Hamilton, Borbon, Cruz, and Murphy. Hamilton & Borbon in CF, Cruz in RF, and Murphy spelling both LF and RF. If the 25th guy were to have been Vladimir, yes you technically have a 5th OF there, but really - how much of an OF is Vlad these days? Same with Manny. So to me, the Napoli signing has nothing to do with the OF situation. I actually don't think we have an "OF situation."
In my mind, the only problem this trade causes is possibly a relief problem, but then again, that's only if someone is hurt or if Texas tries to move either Ogando or Feliz into the rotation. But really, for much of last year, Texas simply didn't have Franky available to pitch, and they got on fine without him. This year, they have added an albeit very old Rhodes, a hopefully healthy Lowe, and this Japanese guy whom many think should be an average middle relief dude - which isn't so bad. So I don't think this is a big deal.
I'm actually happy they traded Franky. For how good he is when he is "on" - man, he sure is horrible when he isn't. Personally, I don't enjoy watching that kind of player. Too stressful.
Trade Young. Sign Vlad.
I don't understand trading your 8th inning guy for a part-time player, especially one that is a .250 hitter who strikes-out a lot. Maybe management knows Frankie's health will limit him this season and beyond. I also can't wait for MY to be in another uniform so we can see just how important he was to the Rangers. He might not be what mathematicians look for in a baseball player, but true baseball personnel people would take him every time.
I just don't trust the pitching staff. I wish they would trade for another top of the rotation starter. I like Murphy (mainly cause i'm friends with him and he's a good guy), but he works the count and is a well rounded player.
I like this team in every area except starting pitching. Just so many intangibles with this rotation. Of course Webb, is this the real CJ, has Holland matured enough, how will Hunter be 'on' or get hit hard? I liked Lewis, but he's still a question mark. I guess we'll just find out, and hopefully JD's got another card up his sleeve..
ARB
Beating a dead horse, but The Face should become a player coach. Wash is not that young and Young IMO is highly respected and would make a good manager some day. I do NOT think he wants to go to Colorado and why take the hit with the casual and some not so casual fans.
BTW, Joey, what do you think the net impact in terms of overall WAR iresults from trading FX2 for Napoli? It's purely speculative of course, but I am curious as to your best WAG. Mine is 1.5 to 2.0 WAR since FX2 can be replaced, there is a need for an additional bat at 1B, and Napoli is a better 1B then Young when it come stime to spell Moreland.
I think CF is a huge issue... or rather a POTENTIALLY huge issue, which I suppose you could say about every position on the team. While I think Borbon is a decent player that a team could win with playing him in CF 140+ games... he's not the type of guy that is a difference maker. Maybe he blossoms now that he's got some ABs under his belt... who knows.
We can't have all-stars at every position... but there's a huge risk in going into 2011 with Borbon as your every day CFer. My gut is telling me JD's got something cookin' for both a TORP and an impact CFer.
I think the Napoli trade was a genius move by JD. He's versatile and could become a Mark Derosa type player for the Rangers (albeit at different positions than Derosa... but you get the point). He struck out a ton last year and his batting average was poor... but he might put up big numbers in the band box. What will everyone say about this trade when Napoli hits .280 with 30 HRs and 85+ RBIs? Those numbers are very possible...
Michael Young WILL BE TRADED... guaranteed! Will it be a move that makes this team better this year, probably not... but sometimes you have to get rid of baggage at inappropriate times. That's not to say MY the person/player is unwanted baggage... but his contract certainly is.
Even if we go into 2011 with MY still here, it's going to be a monster lineup that's going to cause opposing pitchers big time nightmares. And as I've said on here many, many times; MY is still one of the best hitters on this team.
I think that Blanco is going to be the roster casualty with Young becoming your back up middle infielder. That would leave Gentry to back up CF.
"Michael Young WILL BE TRADED... guaranteed!"
O Great Prophet Pablo - when will this event come to pass?
@Shawn, you are half right, trade MY....
but I would NOT want Vlad taking up a roster spot at ANY cost.. even free.. we dont need him.
We do need a real CF'er, let Burbon get his ab's at RR until he establishes himself or not.
It would not surprise me to see Hamilton get traded for a "very good player", but I sure would like to see him in the NL, if that happens.
Frankly I really like him, and want us to keep him... but JD is a quite one at these trades, and seems to help us "team wise" with every trade....
To me it is exciting.... what ever happens, the Rangers will be a force in baseball....
I would like to see JD resigned..
I think Surprise will give everyone a chance to see Beltre and other new hires perform. If all goes as planned MY will be gone by Opening Day or soon after. The season will tell about the differences in Tangible vs Intangible when it comes to player performance vs player contribution. Michael Young is more than the sum of his parts. He has to go on a team as presently constructed BUT to avoid fan backlash when the season goes south. The Spring will tell how much the FO is willing to eat of his contract and let others see once more his and their team's value. When the season starts and losing ensues, who will speak of continuity and perserverance in the clubhouse if MY isn't there to hear it? Who will speak up for Wash?
I think that Blanco is going to be the roster casualty with Young becoming your back up middle infielder. That would leave Gentry to back up CF.
Except that would then leave Texas with no backup infielder in any and all games where Young is DHing (which doesn't sound like the sort of cautious strategy Wash and Co. usually employ with their available position players in a game), and leaves Young making every single backup start at 2B/SS/3B. It also leaves Texas with no backup infielder in any game where Young is playing in the field.
I have a very, very hard time envisioning a scenario where Blanco isn't on the Opening Day roster.
I think Joey hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that (a) Young's bat is marginal at best for a DH or 1B, (b) there are no prospects of him getting a regular gig at 2B or 3B for the duration of his 3 years left on his contract in Texas, and (c) Young himself doent view himself as being done as a positional player. The deal that gives Young a chance to use his glove again while making the Rangers better is Young, Borbon, a C-grade prospect, and $24m spread over 3 seasons to LAD for Matt Kemp. Sign Vlad as a part-time DH, waive Treanor, bring up Gentry as CF defensive cover. Absent a trade for a TORP, that's the last piece in the puzzle to make this team co-favorite (with Boston) to represent the AL in the WS this season.
@jon - regarding MY as player/coach; are you serious... or are you joking? Name 1 other player/coach in baseball? Name the last player/coach in baseball? I'm pretty sure it's been 20 + years since Pete Rose did it... and if I recall, that didn't turn out so hot.
I think it's a novel idea... and I'm not trying to make you feel stupid... but this isn't the NBA and MLB teams don't pay a guy $16m a year to coach... ya know?
MY is a ball player and wants to play everyday. He's a proud guy and he's probably not going to be real thrilled if he's DHing most of the time. His desire to still be in the field will be what drives the trade... and of course JD shedding $40M. For those casual fans, it can be spun in such a way that they perceive this as MY getting his wish to still be a defensive contributor. It's all in the wording... but sometimes tough decisions need to be made for the benefit of the ballclub, regardless of how it's perceived.
Why the hell does everyone want to sign Vlad?
And, why the hell does everyone want to trade MY? Is it just because of his contract?
We dealt from a position of strength to acquire Napoli. Although Francisco is an above average reliever, we recieved a very dependable guy in Napoli and potential 30 HR guy. Having Napoli now makes the Rangers more comfortable to trade Young (and pay 30% of his salary) for a middle of the rotation guy or if we include Holland for top of the order starter like Ubaldo Jimenez of the Rockies and his affordable two year contract. If we trade him before Guerrero signs, then I think the Rangers go hard after Guerrero since they would now be able to offer him and Napoli more that 500 at bats each.
Guerrero would play 110 games at DH and 15 at RF (~500 plus another 30 pinch hit appearances). Napoli would play 50 at DH, 40 at 1B and 30 at catcher.
Napoli Trade~
This one threw me a curveball. The obvious to everyone seems true. The OF, Pen and Profile of Offense are all there as semi-problems... or at least underlying, hidden problems. On the surface, The Face seems to have also dropped a peg. Treanor certainly has? OK, maybe Blanco... but then I take a double-triple take and what I see is 'flexibility' and the fact we're covered for just about every scenario concerned. Perfectly? No, there's Borbon thrown into the pool, up for air for maybe the third time. Just as we think that's the case, Hamb speaks up and states he's not going to change is game or the way he plays. OK we know he's a great CF'r... I can do Hamb and Borbon in CF all year. Looks to me RW has a large amount of choices for this team to perform up to expectations. I'm starting to understand 'JD's Theory of Relativity'. Flexibility creates space and time. It also covers the team for injuries. Sure, the Staff is still expected to 'step up'. I'm confident they will. If not, there's the ASB pool~ adapt.
@ Philly: The desire to trade Young stems from this:
His bat doesn't play at DH or 1B. His career OPS is .795- fantastic for a 2B or SS, very good for a 3B, below average at 1B, way below average at DH, which now seems like his primary position with the Rangers for years to come.
The way for Young to be a valuable player is by having him play 2B or 3B, except his defense at those spots has faded to well below average, and certainly not where a WS contender's 2B or 3B defense should be, and way out of line with the pro-defense philosophies of JD, Nolan, and Wash.
He needs to go to a middle-of-the-pack team in desperate need of a 2B or 3B, who would live with his sub-par defense at the position because his plus bat (for the position) would represent such a huge upgrade over what they've got there.
The Dodgers have a 38-year-old scrub playing 3B. It's their weakest position. MY is a Cali guy anyway. The Dodgers have a potential 30/30 CF they have soured on (coming off a bad season). CF is the Rangers' weakest position. It's a perfect match.
That, and of course the albatross contract.
By the way, I realize Matt Kemp is a sub-par defensive CF. However, just as the Dodgers would probably be thrilled to have Young at 3B because it's a giant hole for them on their current roster, I'd be thrilled to have Kemp in CF, despite his defensive issues, because it's our biggest hole. His bat (.808 career OPS is very, very good in CF, especially playing in a major pitcher's park) is enough of an improvement over Borbon to more than cancel out any defensive issue with room to spare. Plus, Dodger stadium is so big in CF that it exposes marginal CF defenders badly. I suspect he'd be much, much better defensively in RBiA, and I suspect Borbon's CF range would play up big time in Dodger Stadium.
Then, you split the DH ABs between Napoli, maybe Vlad if you opt to sign him, and Murphy (by DHing Hamilton a good bit, or Cruz a good bit, and getting Murph some well-deserved starts in the OF), and you'll end up with a DH OPS well north of Young's career .795 OPS. So you improve 2 positions by making this deal.
@jon - regarding MY as player/coach; are you serious... or are you joking? Name 1 other player/coach in baseball? Name the last player/coach in baseball? I'm pretty sure it's been 20 + years since Pete Rose did it... and if I recall, that didn't turn out so hot.
I think it's a novel idea... and I'm not trying to make you feel stupid... but this isn't the NBA and MLB teams don't pay a guy $16m a year to coach... ya know?
Well Pablo,
Being old I remember a certain Danny reeves, but ask and ye shall receive thanks to Wikipedia. BTW, The face is hopelessly overpaid, but in accounting we refer to that as a sunk cost. No sense in crying over spilt milk so to speak. I do think that The face ha sth epotential to be a good MLB coach and his baseball days, despite his enormous salary, are pretty much behind him.
"In the United States, player/managers and player-coaches were once common, especially in the early days of baseball. The last player-manager in Major League Baseball was Pete Rose, who began managing the Cincinnati Reds in 1985, the second-to-last season of his playing career. Ty Cobb, Cap Anson, Joe Cronin, Connie Mack, John McGraw, Tris Speaker, Frank Robinson, Joe Torre and Lou Boudreau all spent time as player-managers. In this capacity, Robinson became the first African-American manager in Major League Baseball (for the Cleveland Indians in 1975). Fred Clarke (Pittsburgh NL) spent the longest time as a player-manager. Major league rules are somewhat different for trips to the mound by the manager if he is a player-manager (this is with regard to being required to change pitchers), and a player-manager puts himself into or out of the lineup just like any other player."
@Philly: Trading Michael Young
One can break down reasons for trading Young. Some will say because of his non-stellar defense. Many state that his contract does not match his skill-sets. What most do not understand is the ORG is ok with both and have kept Young as 'the face' of the Rangers. Logic has shifted to another view of importance in Rangerland. It seems the ORG is not going to worry about Youngs $16mm per year contract. Yeah, that's a switch from being 'the norm'... even pragmatic(for Baseball). Now being the 'primary DH' dosen't fit 'the norm' either. Sounds basakwards... maybe it is. The only ones worried about the Rangers choices, are the ones not making the moves... the fans. The wheel is being re-invented in Texas or at least the way a team is expected to operate and field a team. Yes, it's different.
Michael Young is still here. Who wouldn't want a perennial .300 hitter on their team, with a leader upside?
Don't forget Moreland can play the outfield corners if needed.
I just do not understand the HATE for Borbon. He was bad in April last year, but after that he hit .291, he still scored 60 runs & had 40+ RBI for the year. Does he need to get better, yes, but ever after the bad April, he hit .276 for the year as a 24 yr. old 1st full year player. A lot of teams would take that. This is not some stiff they are throwing out there. Finally, I love the flexibility of the lineup. And in addition to Murphy, Hamilton, Cruz & Borbon in the OF, Moreland can play RF effectively & move Napoli or MY to 1B if another OF gets injured. Finally, while they need another vet SP for the playoffs, this teams Pitching depth as starters & relievers are very good. You need quality depth to win in the regular season, and studs to win in the playoffs. Give JD time & he will get another TORP for the playoffs.
We are coming off the best season in Ranger history and almost every thread on here turns into a lets trade Young or Borbon or Hamilton thread.
If Young's contract is so bad why would anyone want to take it on? The only teams that can afford bad contracts and still win is the Yankees and they already have an overpaid 3b.
Borbon has a history of putting up decent offensive numbers in the minors and in 09. Yes he did have a terrible start but was hitting at the end of the season. I fully expect him to have a better year with the bat. No he wont hit 20 HR but we already have that up and down the lineup. Plus he is a great defensive player and will probably get even better in the next few years.
If you want to trade Josh for some prospects, well you probably just need to put down the crack pipe. Josh is the best player in baseball! You can argue that Pujols or Cabrera is better at the plate (love to see them play in CF) and you can argue that there are players that are better defensively. But there is none that is the combination of the two like Josh. The only thing you can say is that he might get hurt. Yet we are willing to give a pitcher a 6 or 7 year contract? You want to see the bandwagon empty quickly, just trade him.
But hey maybe we could trade MY and Borbon for the Pirates. They would get a bump in their WAR and we would be rid of these two slackers.
@HubZ:
I think the ORG has demonstrated a willingness to trade Young (certainly listening to the Rockies offers for him, and bringing in a new 3B in Beltre, moving Young to DH, and then turning over every rock to find a better DH, finally settling on Napoli), so I'm not sure you're right about this. I'm also sure the ORG would be happy to upgrade its DH situation and have Young come off the bench, but I'm pretty sure Young would not be happy about that. Also, that "perrenial .300 hitter" has posted .284 in 2 of his last 3 seasons, with just 78 HRs in his last 5 seasons- way below par for the DH position, so count me as one who wouldn't want that rolling out every day as a DH.
@Fred:
I'm really not anti-Borbon. I think he's fine, and improving. But he's the guy who would be easiest to upgrade over (perhaps other than Young at DH) to make the club better. And, while his BA numbers were fine, he doesn't walk enough and has no power, and I was dissapointed by his inability to cause havoc as a base stealer last season.
@Ranger513:
Obviously, you need to kick in cash to trade Young. But his on-field value is highest at 3B or 2B as a poor defender/plus bat. The best value for the Rangers with Young's contract is to trade him and pick up enough of the contract to get talent of true value back.
Fred: Well said regarding Borbon. I don't understand why everyone is so down on a guy who is a plus defensive center fielder (admittedly, with a sub-par arm), a blazing speed guy who can disrupt on the bases, and who came back reasonably well from a horrible start at the plate. He may not pan out, but there is certainly no basis yet for assuming he won't.
@AT ALL IN FOR JOHNSON... - The Rockies will NOT trade Ubaldo Jimenez for MY and Holland... in fact, I don't think they'd make that trade if you sweetened it with Martin Perez, Scheppers, and E. Beltre or Profar. There's no way they even consider trading him... he's a stud and their FO is well run and intelligent. Trading away your number 1 (not to mention 1 of the top 10 pitchers in the game), is not wise and rarely happens.
@Tony - That's a very good point. If Moreland can spell the corner OF spots it adds a ton of flexibility. Glad you mentioned it...
@Jon - Like I said, the idea of a player/coach is not horrible, but it's no longer realistic. Times have changed. Players have changed. Coaches/managers have changed. It ain't gonna happen... and if the Ranger's FO wanted someone to fill that type of role it would like be Matt Treanor... or at least that seems to be the sentiment among (knowledgeable) fans and media.
@Fred - I'm not sure anyone's necessarily hating on Borbon... and you're absolutely right in that he had a pretty decent season in 2010 (besides the early season struggles)... but there are 2 reasons why going into 2011 with him as the starting CFer is troublesome; 1) while he did put up decent numbers, he does not even scratch the surface of generating the numbers that you'd expect from your CFer. He has NO power... and CF is a position where you'd like to see the guy drive in some runs and knock 15-20 HRs. He's not going to do either... partly because of where he hits in the lineup but mostly because he's not that type of hitter and will likely never be. 2) Borbon is far from proven. Could he improve from last year, sure... but he could also take a huge nose dive. If this team was still middling around and rebuilding for the future, then Borbon would be acceptable in CF... but this team is a legit WS contender and can ill afford to have a potentially glaring weak spot like Borbon. Also, Borbon is not the greatest defensive CFer either... so it's not like we're sacrificing power for defense. If he was a great defensive CFer that put up so-so numbers at the plate, then we could live with him... but that's not the case.
@Scooby - you're reasons for trading Young are spot on... but I would be shocked if the Dodgers traded Kemp for Young and Borbon. Also, who is the 38 yr old scrub you're referring to; Juan Uribe? I didn't think he was that old... and "scrub" is kind of harsh, don't you think? I'm not sure Young would be an improvement over Uribe... at least not defensively.
Borbon is a slow starter. Always has been, probably always will be. So are the Rangers. Borbon had a Green light to run until his "Caught Stealing" almost caught his success rate. Wash put a "STOP!" sign on him with instruction to never run unless Wash stood on the dugout step and thrust his right index finger to the heavens and rotated it clockwise followed by pumping his Rt arm twice. That was successful but only until teams exchanged lineup cards at home plate.
If you think MY gave up runs at 3B, you should count how many times Andrus, Borbon and Vlade gave them up on the bases. Okay, so maybe every C/S would not have resulted in a run if completed successfully but neither did every flag job or worse, like maybe, No Response to balls in the vicinty passing 3B quickly result in runs.
One would think good coaching would correct the stealing giveaway but you cannot argue the later success of Borbon as a hitter or defensively in CF. I still have fond memories of Elvis and Borbon reigning havoc on opponents when on base at the same time. It excited them, the team and fans.
Speed Kills!!
@Scooby~ The obvious rarely is in Baseball... expect the unexpected
Sure Mikey is not the typical DH. That seems to be the crux in JD's crazy wizardry of his flexibility.
Let's face the reality. We've got plenty of MASH, without another "Norm DH'. With a .300 hitter(ok, 5 extra hits etc)there's not a rally kill there, with MY. Youngs goal is to get on-SCORE RUNS, hit behind the runner... basic situational bat control. Andrus' job- get on...SCORE . I suspect the DH role will also rotate too. I'd think most agree. All the OF'rs will get their chance to DH. There's not much weakness in any lineup RW throws into the hat. We certainly look good against the three lefties of the A's. Mikey is going to have to grow into his new job... as the leader-face, he'll step up and perform better than most.
I can see it now... many screaming from their LaZboys @ RW: "Pinch Hit...Pinch Run...Not him at 1B tonight" Man, there are so many sceanrios for some of you to get pizzed at... BUT so many equations for real good baseball that will be played out with expectations. It's going to be a fun 2011.
@ Tom B:
Spot on. Borbon's whole game is ruined if he can't be a threat on the basepaths. Even if he hits .300, with no walks, no power, and no base stealing, it's an empty .300 if you ask me.
Young isn't a very good situational hitter, imo. He's a GIDP machine. 4-6-3 all season. I'm sure Wash will hit him 2nd, and I know lineup doesn't make a ton of difference, but I sure would like to see Moreland (who does seem to me like a fantastic situational hitter) or Kinsler considered for the 2 hole. Or even Josh. Something like Andrus-Josh-Kinsler-Beltre-Cruz could be a killer 1-5.
Good point Scooby on an empty .300. Wash grew up with CF'rs that were defensive gems, not necessarily big bats: Blair, Flood Pinson, Otis, Cedano, Lofton and Pettis were skilled bat handlers and hawks in the outfield. Borbon CAN be and is surrounded by big bats. He does add a certain excitement when he's on his game. He's a terrific bunter with speed to burn.... but just an enigma won't cut it in 2011.
If you want to go deeper with Borbon's quality of a good CF'r to immulate:
Jim Landis
Bill Virdon
Jackie Jensen
Jimmy Piersall
These CF's influenced RW as a Kid, as they did mine.
All similar to what Borbon could bring, with more time and patience.
He's a hard worker. Time will tell. He has through the ASB and then...
Adapt & adjust
So, would "Mike Napoli and the Ripple Effect" make a better name for:
A) A major summer blockbuster action movie.
Or
B) A new Indie Rock band.
A center fielder doesn't have to have power on this team. Not when he's surrounded by power in this stud lineup. No team has an All Star at every position. On this team, and with this park's huge center field, Borbon fits fine as long as he does a reasonable job of getting on base and running like heck once he gets there.
Trade Young for a few baseball cards, a sack of marbles, and a dead parakeet with his previously removed head reattached with duct tape.
There is no sense even dreaming that we would get anything at all in return for him. Even if we pick up half his tab, that's still 24 million to a team that's likely going to be financially tapped out. No way they are going to give positional players, or half ass decent prosects.
How about some Engel Beltre in CF? Any of you boys forgot about him?
@TheNatural:
I think Beltre is exactly why I'd be willing to deal a decent young CF in Borbon for a short-term upgrade. But how about we let Beltre actually hit AA pitching before we start looking at him as an answer at the ML level?
@ jd21:
The problem with Borbon is that (1) in addition to no power, he doesn't walk, and his OBP is poor, and (2) his caught stealing rate is high enough that it has negated his impact on the bases. If he was good for 40 steals and 8 CS, he would be an impactful player. But he just doesn't run much because, fast as he is, he gets poor jumps and gets caught stealing too much.
@Ranger513
amen, brother. some of the comments i read on here really p@#s me off. these guys have done nothing but play their hearts out for you people, and all i keep reading is all this sabermetric crap about blah blah blah blah blah, trade MY for (insert some random name), blah blah blah, we need to sign (insert name of some 40+ slugger), trade JH for (insert name of some ace pitcher). i understand that we all want to build a better team, but many on here think nothing about trading away the very core that get everybody so excited in the first place, just for the potential upside or coolness factor of seeing "so and so" in a Ranger uniform.
really???
Well, at first glance, it seems the PAs that go to Napoli absolutely will be coming off MY's and MM's ledgers. I don't really see the centerfield conundrum being exacerbated by Napoli's acquisition in any way. Did you think we would sign someone more capable than Borbon? That wasn't ever going to happen, so unless you thought Gentry's sticking as the 25th man might be a solution of any kind, I don't see where there was really ever going to be anyone but Hamilton as the fallback if Julio is a complete bust. The presence of several pretty decent bats off the bench will mitigate Borbon's offensive-offensive skills in the late innings somewhat. At any rate, he's becoming a plus defender.
MY and Napoli and MM can all play multiple positions. Napoli's glove might actually grade out better at 1B than Mitch at the moment. But I think those three might make it less likely our outfielders get many PA's at DH. Moreland definitely could spell in RF or LF if Borbon can't keep it together and the outfield needs a boost. To me, there aren't any rosters in baseball I can think of that are as well-rounded both on offense and defense. The everyday players and the bench are extremely talented. This roster makeup is an immense credit to JD.
The REAL impact will be felt in the bullpen as you suggest; just how severe things might decline with no more Francisco is depending on whether the 2nd half regression of Oliver signaled the end of his late-career rally, among other things. You also have to worry at some point Rhodes will wake up and discover he's nearly as old as Julio Franco (I'm kidding -- sort of). Then there's the deceptive D-O'D -- did the Giants expose something that other teams will pick up on? Just have to see about Lowe -- boy, looking back does his inclusion on the post season roster smell like desperation now, or what? Feliz, the untested rookie, looked better than any other reliever in October -- though Ogando was good also. All of these other guys in front of Happy were slotted in the wrong places because FF was hurt. His loss last yr really hurt the team's chances down the stretch and post season in close games.
We were fortunate that the Spankees didn't really seem to have the guts to fight back from so many rotation meltdowns, while the Rays just didn't have any answers for Lee or CJ. Hindsight seems to say to me Feldman would have been a better choice than Lowe, but I guess his knee might have been too painful. Rapada and Lowe's presence does show what a complete disaster the bullpen became with FF gone and some guys not able to finish the season very strong at all. Kirkman also got his shot because of so much bullpen ineffectiveness after the AS Break.
@Flapshooter - I don't think anyone on here is advocating making a move just to make a move... or as you put it, add a 40 yr old "name" to the roster.
We're bored. It's almost Feb. Pitchers and catchers report in a few weeks. Deal with the fantasy GM stuff until then... or leave. No one is holding a gun to your head, demanding you read all our comments. This is America bro... land of the free.
I read a RUMOR today that the Nats may be brewing something up for Grady Sizemore. If I were JD, I'd be all over that...
Sizemore's been injured the last 2 seasons and a guy like Gentry would likely have to spell him but man, wouldn't he be the PERFECT complement to this offense? Slide him in the leadoff spot, or 2 hole and let him rip it up.
Just for fun (and to further annoy Flapshooter), what would it take to trade for Sizemore? Would a package of Borbon, Holland or Hunter, and Kirkman get it done? Is that too much? I don't know what his value is right now or what his health looks like, if he's dealing with major injuries, etc... but the talent is just sick. Maybe the Indians jump at the chance to dump his salary and add a few MLB ready guys with years of team control left... who knows! Fun to think about a lineup with Sizemore/MY/Hammy/Beltre/Cruz/Kins/Napoli, huh?
Sizemore is a bit of a mystery. I would kick the tires on that one. Borbon and Hunter, maybe? Certainly not Holland or Kirkman. But he'd have to clear a RIGOROUS physical before that trade went through.
NO HOLLAND
NO KIRKMAN
I don't think they will ever sell low on Sizemore, they would be asking too much for what we would be willing to offer.