If Texas Doesn't Trade Michael Young: The Four Scenarios
As baseball-invested people of all sorts -- the emotionally drained Rangers fan, the curiosity-driven blogosphere wanderer, the proselytizing columnist, and so on -- hold forth on the Michael Young imbroglio, and vigorously debate the merits and (many?) flaws in his hardline position against the ballclub, a rather significant question continues to fly freely and largely undetected: if the Rangers reciprocate Young's stubbornness by digging their own heels into the dirt, and outright refuse to accept a team-unfriendly deal, who the hell is going to want Young? And perhaps even more significantly, how do things end up playing out if they can't (or won't) trade Young?
The not-so-secret dirty little secret about the Young-approved eight-team list of possible landing spots is that virtually every one of those teams either (a) can't furnish the infield playing time that Young so desperately covets (e.g. Yankees), (b) can't afford to assume the salary commitment that would still exist even with the benefit of a generous cash subsidy (e.g. Padres), or (c) simply don't appear to want him for one good reason or another (Astros, Twins, Cardinals); meanwhile, the Dodgers and Angels continue to linger around on the periphery, and I suppose something could conceivably still happen there, but the point is that with Young's hottest pursuer (Rockies) now reportedly out of the mix, the likelihood of him being dealt without being more amenable to other possibilities is falling fast, to say the least.
So, in the event that the Rangers tell Young something to the effect of "we're not trading you, but we're also not expanding your role beyond that which we already laid out for you, so get over it," I'm seeing one of four possible scenarios playing out -- one or two of which may have little to virtually no chance of actually happening, but need to be included in the interest of thoroughness:
Scenario No. 1: Young initially fumes after being told that the organization won't punch his ticket to such exotic locales as Houston, Minneapolis, and/or St. Louis, but reports to spring training (as per his contractual requirements), dons his customary professionalism mask, and continues to ooze good-vibe intangibles by the bucket. In this scenario, Young sets aside his frustrations and misgivings about his playing-time situation (which will likely still comprise 600-plus plate appearances when all is said and done, provided that he's not dealt), ceases publicly voicing his distrust of the Rangers' front office, and at least ignores adversary Jon Daniels while continuing to be what most would consider a "good teammate." Texas goes on to enjoy a competitive season, thereby placating Young after a reasonable period of time, and eventually things quiet down to the point that he no longer wants to be traded.
And everyone lived happily ever after.
Scenario No. 2: Young is ticked, remains ticked going into spring training, and carries it over into the season ... except this time, it negatively colors his attitude and conduct in the clubhouse, in the dugout, and/or on the playing field. The extent to which this could occur is up for debate; it may be that he sulks quietly and merely no longer emanates those good-leadership vibes (or does so in far smaller quantities), or it may be that he's a bit more aggressive, to the extent that he ignites several disruptive episodes in team environments where such conduct is not tolerated. I will be upfront in saying that I have an inordinately difficult time imagining Young transforming into a clubhouse cancer in the way that, say, Sidney Ponson did three years ago, but I would be remiss if I did not at least acknowledge the possibility of Young adopting a scorched-earth policy as a means of expressing his discontent and forcing the trade issue more than he has already.
To those who would completely write off any prospect of Scenario No. 2 actualizing, I would point towards at least one disturbing little sign that has come to light this morning -- in addition to not being on speaking terms with general manager Jon Daniels, team president Nolan Ryan, and probably the rest of the Rangers' upper-level brass, Young has apparently severed all verbal contact with manager Ron Washington, who has never been anything less than a devout Young supporter and has always shown Young an overabundance of love. That bothers me. A lot. It leads me to wonder what other shenanigans Young would be capable of pulling, should he continue to not get his way during the remainder of his time in Texas.
Scenario No. 3: An amalgamation of scenarios No. 1 and No. 2, where Young sucks it up and maintains a friendly, amicable and team-first personality around his teammates, coaches and manager, but continues to be a thorn in the organization's side otherwise, with repeated trade requests throughout the season and a continued icy stance towards upper management. In this scenario, Young makes the best of what he considers an unfortunate situation, but also continues to work to extricate himself from it behind the scenes.
Scenario No. 4: The apocalypse scenario, where Young either (a) outright refuses to report to spring training, or (b) pulls the Alfonso Soriano-tried-and-tested 2006 gambit and simply refuses to come up to the plate as a designated hitter in his first spring training game, despite being penciled into that spot. This assumes an especially bitter, vindictive version of Young who wants to make everyone perfectly aware of just how serious he is about not being a designated hitter -- one who is willing to risk damage to his long-term financial well-being to prove his point, and to call the organization's bluff and hopefully force his way out by the most extreme means imaginable.
When Soriano pulled a similar stunt during his first 2006 spring training game with the Washington Nationals (involving an awkward scene where Soriano never came out of the dugout to assume his post in left field with the rest of his teammates, which temporarily delayed the game), then-manager Frank Robinson was forced to make a quick defensive switch -- and immediately after the game, then-general manager Jim Bowden issued an ultimatum: play left field tomorrow, or land on the disqualified list, meaning no accrual of service time and forfeiture of his salary. Soriano, of course, relented, thereby precluding the possibility of involvement by the players' union, who could have conceivably taken up the argument on Soriano's behalf that his value would have been diminished by a move to left field.
So, either flavor of "Doomsday" Scenario No. 4 carries far-reaching implications that would probably steer what is already a nasty public rift into historically nasty territory. I cannot imagine Young's pride is so immense that it overshadows his bank account, and it is for that reason that I find Scenario No. 4 almost unbelievable ... but when he was asked what would happen if the team didn't budge from its stance, Young refused comment. And when this blew up for the first time two years ago (when he was far less angry than he is now), Young remarked: "I'm not playing third base. I'm pretty adamant about my stance." I'd like to eliminate this possibility out of hand, but it strikes me as pretty obvious why we really can't rule anything out where this thing is concerned anymore. Hell, it's virtually beyond our comprehension as it stands right now.
Let's all try to remember this little episode the next time a major league team wants to overpay for things not directly related to the happenings on the baseball field. Because this ... this is a disaster.
Analysis, The Off-Season
Reader Comments (163)
"Many here have freely admitted that JD was clearly trying to pressure MY to ask for a trade, that he wanted to trade him all along. I also think that is rather obvious and MY clearly has some information to that effect as well. That is why he is pissed."
1. Whether or not "many" suggest this kind of conspiracy - I don't - and haven't. I think that is the wrong way to look at it, mainly because there is no direct evidence for that kind of reading.
2. It is true that Mike is "pissed," but to say that you know he is pissed because of a conspiracy by JD to drive him off the team is simply conjecture. He could be pissed for any number of reasons, many that have very little to do with JD. Until we find out for sure what is going on, you can't impute those kind of motives on JD without "disrespecting" JD.
Given the 1B Job? After what Mitch showed in the World Series?
Sorry, you don't cater to a problem, you solve it pragmatically.
Young needs to wake up to reality. There are 30 MLB teams. How
many takers are wanting him to join, at his present stage of his contract
and career... how 'bout Texas? Oh, what a concept. A signed contract
with the Texas Rangers. Ugh Mikey, one step back... two steps forward.
This situation is getting uglier and uglier. I really don't see Young getting traded. There isn't a large market for him. Essentially, we are trying to back out of a deal that overpaid him. He is aging and his defense is clearly on the decline and other teams know it.
So if there is somehow a deal, there's no way we improve from it. MY is our best option right now. And everyone is always talking about improving the team and winning now. Keeping MY is our best chance to put the best team out on the field because we won't get a better player by trading him at this point.
And he will be cordial with the team. He always is, through all the team has put him through. End result: he stays and remains our captain. For the next two years of his contract, however, I have no idea.
LFloyd,
Do you deny that Young was told he would not be traded? He obviously was, whether it was JD or one of his surrogates I don't think matters that much. The point is that the organization was not straight with MY.
Joe
WWJDD,
Ok, your name reveals your loyalty.
I am like a lot of other people in that I think it is pretty clear that the organization at best sent MY mixed messages and at worst was outright dishonest with him.
If you want to deny that I think everyone knows that is because of your loyalties.
Fair enough, What Would John Daniels Do?
Joe
This column is irrelevant. JD will find a trade, and all will be rosey in Rangerland. I'm starting to believe Carlos Lee is a real possibility, and I still think the Dodgers are a potential landing spot.
Joe, any chance you can limit all the shit eating rhetoric? It's getting old and pretty gross.
You have been all over the place on Young. He's your sister's favorite player ever, he's Mr. Ranger, and now he's an asshole serving shit pie. And you're wrong, assholes do not deserve the same respect as non-assholes. Respect is earned.
Scenario 5:
Young retires ala Gil Meche.
Seriously, at this rate Scenario 3 doesn't look possible anymore, and if he balks at showing up to ST it would appear he would be heading to the restricted list not long thereafter.
@WWJDD
1. There is circumstantial evidence to MY's story. Even after they told him they didn't want to trade him the rumors got hotter and hotter. Where were they coming from?
2. So we until we find out what is going on we can't impute JD motives......but it's ok to impute MY's. Do I have that right?
Lost in all the scenarios is this other nagging suspicion I've had for awhile- that MY allowed himself to be suckered into this purely by media speculation about a possible trade. Anybody else notice how just a few days ago there were reports all over that a deal of Young was imminent, that a trade with the Rockies was as good as done, maybe as soon as Monday the 7th. Now MY has come out publicly on wanting to be traded and suddenly there are no deals even close to being made, the Rockies are "out of it" and there seem to be few other bidders for his services?
Players try to ignore all the rabble in the media but it's impossible for players to totally keep blinders on. Not totally discounting JD's role, but this is the first time in a long time (maybe ever) the Rangers have a team deemed worthy of the national media spotlight and we all too often take these Hot Stove reports as gospel when they're just wild what-ifs and suppositions. Maybe they misled MY just as much if not more than JD.
Adam,
All I was saying is that you can't lie to an asshole just because he is an asshole.
I also never called MY an asshole. I admitted the possibility that he could be. That does not mean that you can lie to him however.
I have not been all over the place on Young. He is my sister's favorite player, Hamilton is mine. I am not a Young loyalist but I will defend him against JD because I think JD has been dishonest.
The shit eating rhetoric is designed to make people understand how WOEFULLY JD has mismanaged this situation. If it grosses you out that is good, that's what I'm after.
Shit pie anyone?
Joe
40 years,
Has anyone ever wondered whether MY heard something from Vlad?
Could it be that the mystery team offering 8 million was the Rangers, and that they were trying to move MY at the time, or at least told Vlad that was a possibility.
Joe
I hope Scenario 1 plays out and it will if the Rangers don't blink. Michael Young has $16 million reasons to "set aside his frustrations". And he has done this before. He pouted about being asked to move from short to 3rd and then got over it to the point where now he is upset about being moved from 3rd to DH. Once he gets 4 AB's every day plus at least some playing time in the field he will get over it. The Rangers just can't dump him because his bat is still valuable and he is at least OK defensively. The over analysis over his defensive shortcomings is breathtaking - we won the division, beat Tampa, and beat NY with him at 3rd. I don't think we lost the World Series because our 3rd baseman couldn't play defense.
Keeping him is the best option. He will get over it. If we trade him we will be stuck with most of Young's salary and Carlos Lee or someone like him. I'll take a little whining from Young any day over that.
Joe,
Don't think so. All indications are Vlad was offered the $8 mill very early, even before Cliff Lee signed with Philly, but turned it down because he wanted a two year deal and the Rangers were only offering one. Near as I can tell, once Beltre was signed, the Rangers made no more efforts to get Vlad back.
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/02/an-open-letter-about-the-micha.html
Good article.
40 Year,
Just a couple weeks ago the Vlad camp came out and said they had an 8mil offer on the table. At the same time JD was talking about bringing him back in a limited role. My suggestion was that it was the Rangers making the offer, and maybe they told Vlad that a MY trade was a possibility. And then Vlad would have probably told MY that at about the same time Napoli was acquired causing a nuclear explosion of shit on everyone.
Joe
Poor Joe. Instead of JD "misleading" MY by telling him that he was the DH and then trying to trade him - what should JD have done?
"Michael, you are the DH right now but we might trade you. I have wanted to trade you for quite some time and I just wanted to be upfront with you. We might trade you so be prepared to be traded. But if we don't trade you, we are really excited about you being our DH.
Michael, do you understand what I'm saying? I'm respecting you by telling you that you might be traded. Doesn't our honesty make you feel good about your place in the organization now? Don't you like me for having told you that I might trade you? I'm glad that we could work all this out."
Joe, I think you are right. That sounds like an awesome way to handle this situation.
Joe,
You also don't know that the FO told him he would not be traded. MY"s own quotes said the trade rumors were not the problem, that it was a part of the business. Lebreton's article today said that teams were calling about MY, that the FO was not making those calls.
No, if you are an ass to people, you do NOT deserve the respect of others. That does not mean lie to someoneb/c they are an ass-that is completely different.
Answer me this, if you please. Nolan said Mike changed his mind about DHing for fear that it would hurt his NEXT contract. MY says it isn't about trade rumors OR about DHing, but threw JD under the bus instead of Nolan(maybe because he knew attacking NR would get him crucified).
So, the question is, who is lying? Young or Ryan?
My thoughts exactly, utb.
utb,
I understand there are often difficult situation in life, but that does not mean that lying is justified.
He should have just said that you are my DH now and that could change before the season starts. Instead the organization told him point blank that he would not be traded all along shopping him around.
I understand the difficult involved with being honest sometimes, but it is the right thing to do. The moral prohibition on lying exists for a reason, to protect the dignity inherent in both those who would want to lie and those who would be lied to.
Joe
Joe,
What is your obsession with shit? It's really disturbing. So maybe JD told Mike that he was going to be the starting DH of the club. What difference does is make if they trade for Napoli? How is that a breach of trust? It sounds like someone doesn't want any competition because he was TOLD it was his spot. Cry about it. Its a business. JD was trying to improve the club. I'm sure if the Reds got a call from another team about Joey Votto they would pick it up and listen. That doesn't mean they are shopping him. Do you know what shopping a player means? Because it doesn't sound like it. Talking to another club about a potential trade doesn't mean he is being shopped. It means JD is listening to the other guy on the phone. Big deal. Carmelo Anthony is being shopped like a prostitute. I dont understand why Young is so frustrated. No one does. You know why? Because his vagueness isnt giving anyone an opportunity to understand it.
You really need to be more receptive instead of just telling everyone their ideas are wrong even though yours is the most outlandish of all of them. Just because YOU think it doesn't mean it is true.
So the organization said he wont be traded. Did he get traded? No. So why is he demanding what he didnt want to happen?
Randy,
First of all MY was told that he would not be traded. The FO also told the media that he would not be traded. They also told the media that he would be the opening day DH.
As far as your little suggestion that MY could be lying I'm pretty sure it makes no sense.
Joe
Joe,
So telling MY that "things could change" would make everything better? That is just illogical. In baseball, it's understood that "things could change" at any time. But until they DO change, describing the current situation is not lying.
Telling MY that Texas is planning on him being the full-time DH doesn't preclude the possibility that MY might be traded. This is a tired-head argument because we both know that no GM in baseball is going to tell one of their players that their role "could change" in the future.
Philly,
Yours and others obsession with my shit analogy is really starting to disturb me. Its just a good analogy to show just how badly JD has mismanaged this situation.
I'm not the only one who thinks it is quite obvious that the Ragners were not upfront with MY. They have all disapeared now but not long ago this blog was awash with guys cheering JD for pulling a jedi mind trick on MY. All of these people think it is obvious that JD was trying to put pressure on MY to ask for a trade and in such a way that would make him look bad.
You really need to be more receptive to others Philly, I am disturbed by your willingness to pretend like you are so much more level headed when in fact you are clearly just trying to discredit me with your lectures about shit and listening to others. Try to come down to earth a little bit buddy.
Your obsession with my shit analogy, which has obviously been extremely effective in helping people understand just how horrible JD's management has been in this situation, is really starting to disturb me.
Joe
Young should be "given" nothing. If he is the best at it then he gets to prove that in spring training. He already has what he gets for past performance in a nice paycheck. Playing time comes from earning it with what he can bring to the table today. If he doesn't have the guts and/or the confidence in his ability to compete for a job then I would not have confidence in putting him on the field everyday.
utb,
Regardless of whether or not you tell your player that things could change does not matter.
You still can not lie to them and tell them that they will not be traded while you are trying to put pressure on them hoping that they will ask for a trade.
Dishonesty is not an option.
Joe
Joe,
I don't make "little suggestions", I am much more blunt than that. The reports I read were that they told him they were not shopping him around, but other teams were inquiring. Lebreton said the same thing in his column today.
I asked you a simple question-Who is lying? Is it Nolan or is it Michael?
Ryan at their press conference-Michal became concerned that being typecast as a dh would affect his furure contract.
Young-It's not the trade rumors, that is part of the business. All team are exploring all their options.
So quit spooning with your MY bobbblehead for a minute and answer the question.
Hahaha man you live in your own little world huh? Your shit analogy doesn't show anything well. It just shows your immaturity.
So how am I pretending to be level headed? What proof do you have to say one party is right and one party is wrong. We dont have any. When the info finally does come out, who knows, you might be right. And if thats the case, you can start back up your shit storm and poop on everyones posts.
The only way for me to be more receptive is to make radical assumptions about the situation and preach it like it is the truth, when we dont know the truth.
Can you start your own blog?
This from TR Sullivan, I think it is obvious that the FO was not straight with MY because this is what would have happened if they had been being honest with him. The fact this did not happen makes it crystal clear they were not straight with Michael.
"I'm not sure what happened, but this is what should have happened ...
1. If the Rangers were interested in trading Young -- apparently they were -- they should have been able to find out by Jan. 1 if it was going to be possible.
2. Once the Rangers were engaged in pursuing Adrian Beltre -- a process that took time -- they should have secured a firm and unswerving commitment from Young that he would be willing to switch to designated hitter/utility infielder.
3. Once Beltre was signed and Young agreed to switch positions, the Rangers should have cut off all trade talks with other teams. If they were telling Young that he would not be traded, they should have stopped any discussions with other teams no matter who started them. Apparently, it does hurt to listen.
4. There was no need for the Rangers to flirt with Jim Thome and Manny Ramirez, and Young shouldn't have been spooked by the acquisition of Mike Napoli. That shouldn't have had anything to do with him.
This was a wildfire that was burning ever since the Winter Meetings and never should have gone this far."
The wild fire was fueled by JD's desire to trade Young even after he accepted the DH role. Why? Because that was not part of the plan, Young was expected to ask for a trade when offered the DH role. Things didn't go according to plan so JD starting putting veiled pressure on Young to ask for a trade and that is what happened along with shit pie for everyone whether we like it or not.
Philly,
Its a shame that you have devolved into personal attacks and blatant ad hominem arguments when I was being respectful in my last post. If you don't want to read my posts please don't, and further, please don't level insults at me either. I have nothing against you and wish you would not be angry with me. My shit analogy was designed to show how JD has mishandled the situation and I think it works for those purposes. I'm not sure why you are dawging me. Probably because you disagree, and that's fine. I just wish you would keep it to the arguments and stop attacking me.
Joe
Am I the only person who thinks Michael Young accruing 600 AB's this year is absurd? He is pissed because he is going from perennial all-star (except for last year's Joe Girardi-ARod snub,) to part-time DH/Utility guy.
If he was truly a team-player, he would have accepted his new role on the team and re-signed a more team friendly contract(6yr 48million,) ending his career as the best, most well-loved Ranger of all time. Instead he will be remembered as a prima-donna NFL type brat.
Speaking of the NFL, Jerry Jones said publicly that T.O. wasn't going anywhere after the 08 season. Nolan Ryan followed some pretty ugly footsteps when he stated Michael Young isn't going anywhere.
Randy,
First of all I've said before that I am not a MY loyalist so your innuendo there is not appropriate.
Secondly, I agree with TR Sullivan (see above post) that even listening to offers was inappropriate and misleading and is not what the FO should have been doing.
Thirdly, your suggestion that MY is lying makes no sense. If anything he may have perceived that he was misled worse than he actually was, but I think its pretty obvious that he has been misled. Everyone needs to get together and try to resolve this.
To answer your question, no, I do not think Michael Young is lying.
Joe
With all due respect Joe, your posts are impossible to avoid.
Competition is the cornerstone to every sport. Teams compete for a championship. Within every team, players compete for the opportunity to perform.
MY has excluded himself from this fundamental principal. He must compete for playing time and position; any guarantee of playing time or position compromises the team's ability to compete for a championship.
Man up - go out and compete. If you are the best, you will get the playing time and position you want. If not, accept the defeat with dignity and look for your opportunity to contribute to the success of your team.
I vote Joe off the island.
Rangers 513:
No - but we can read Mike's actual statements he made TO THE PRESS - those are verifiable. Rumors are just rumors.
Ranger513,
Your point is that JD was remiss in not telling Young that the team was open to trading him? I'm not sure how that type of conversation should go?
First of all, keep in mind that because of his contract, the odds that a trading partner could be found without making impossible financial concessions was/is slim to none.
With that thought in mind, do you pull Young aside and tell him that you would trade him if you could but that the chances of it happening are remote and if a trading partner can't be found, you want him to forget that this conversation ever happened and to come to ST as though you aren't aware that your management team does see you as the player you used to be?
Or do you tell Young that even though his position has changed, he's still an integral part of the team and that everyone still thinks highly of him but if he hears rumors of trade talks, that's all they are....rumors. Do you tell him that he's still going to get his swings (defense isn't his forte anyway) and that the team listens to trade proposals about various players as a normal course of action anyway, so to not read anything into if he hears his name mentioned?
I ask these questions because I'm curious to know how you think JD should have communicated with Young? In your opinion, what should have been said, and when?
Joe,
Okay, got it. You think Ryan was lying. Gotcha.
If JD is not listening to offers from other teams, then he is not doing his duty to his employer or the fans of the club-that is, to look at EVERY possible option to make the team better this year and in the future.
Or do you tell Young that even though his position has changed, he's still an integral part of the team and that everyone still thinks highly of him but if he hears rumors of trade talks, that's all they are....rumors. Do you tell him that he's still going to get his swings (defense isn't his forte anyway) and that the team listens to trade proposals about various players as a normal course of action anyway, so to not read anything into if he hears his name mentioned?
Yep. That is the way it should be handled and I know that you probably might say it was handled that way but apparently not. You don't tell him he won't be traded and continue to shop him. MY said it wasn't the rumors. I think there is something that we aren't seeing. At the very least a misunderstanding (probably worse) and it is JDs job to fix it whether you think it's his fault or not.
No - but we can read Mike's actual statements he made TO THE PRESS - those are verifiable. Rumors are just rumors.
Agreed. But JD doesn't give information to the press on what he his doing, although he was quick to say he'd be willing to trade MY, and yes I am reading a little into that.
The fact is I want the Rangers to win and this fiasco in no way helps that. I also want a FO that respects player that have been loyal to the team. I wonder how many would have a different opinion if this was some big corporation dealing with them or one of their family members?
Still hoping they get together and work this out for the best. Question MY and JD is it in you?
No one knows what MY was told...why? Because he won't say. But Joe knows for fact what was said between the FO and Young.
Joe is obviously a troll. This site was better before he started using it as his personal blog. Eating runny shit is a good analogy and it's worked? What? When Joe has 4 times as many words on this site per day as Joey, thats not a good thing.
But, I guess its working because we respond. Ugggh
Hahaha personal attacks. This gets better every time. I disagree that twisting what has been said and coming to a crazy conclusion and then arguing about it and not listening to any else's much more normal ideas is a good thing. Thats how rumors start.
Joe,
I have enjoyed sparring witgh you in the past, but you are getting ridiculous.
1) You are not making a sh*t analogy. You are just swearing because you're pissed off, and it detracts from your ability to be persuasive.
2) it is not obvious that anyone told him he would not be traded. No GM tells a player such a thing. Or at least it would be incredibly unusual for them to do so. They say "We are not shopping you" or "We are not planning to trade you" which has a very different plain-face meaning than "We swear on our kids' lives that we will not trade you".
3) This is similar to the notion that a GM would not say "I swear you will be the starting DH" but rather "the plan is for you to be the starting DH", which, again, has a different meaning and is standard GM speak.
4) The Bible (and just to be on record, I'm not a believer in religion, but have studied it extensively) does not say "Thou Shall Not Lie." It says "Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbor," which roughly translates to "Thou Shall Not Falsely Accuse Someone In A Criminal Investigation." Poor translations do not change the original meaning. Lawyers lie to preserve Attorney-Client Secrecy, for example, and this is a good thing. I'm sure, if there is a God, he'd be fine with lying to the authorities about the Jews or fugative slaves hiding in your attic. And Employers keeping organizational operational information from Employees is a socially acceptable (and indeed neccesary) way to do business.
5) When the Rangers resigned Matt Treanor, I'm sure they told him the plan was for him to be the backup Catcher. Nonetheless, if a better Catcher gets waived by another club after Spring Training, I would hope and expect that they would place a waiver claim on him. Arfe they obligated to tell Treanor that now? Are they being dishonest if they don't?
6) Are you suggesting that all players have to be informed of all potential future roster moves that might effect them?
6a) If yes, how could a team possibly function this way?
6b) If no, what makes Michael Young so damned special that he gets to act like an aggrieved party that he wasn't given this special treatment?
7) To reiterate an earlier point, is Nolan lying or is Young lying? Because one (or more) of them has to be lying.
8) JD's contract situation is not as you described it. It's more like CJ Wilson's or Josh Hamilton's. The leverage is not with the team. The question is not whether the Rangers will be kind enough to offer him an extension. It's whether they can agree to lucrative enough terms to prevent perhaps the most coveted GM in the game from reaching the Open Market when his current contract expires at the end of this season.
9) If anything regarding this situation is holding that extension up, I imagine it's JD wanting to make surfe that the Rangers don't undercut his authority by forcing him to keep a player who has flauted his authority over the club so brazenly. But I suspect even that has nothing to do with it, but rather that JD is busy and they'll hammer it out once the club gets to Surprise.
10) Your assertions that you're not a Young loyalist are betrayed by the lengths you went to in the last month to figure out a good reason to get rid of Andres Blanco.
11) I'm pretty sure no one has ever said it was part of the plan to make Young look foolish. I believe (without evidence, but I still believe it) that JD wanted Young to ask for a trade after he had secured a replacement bat (which he did in Napoli). That does not imply that he was intending for Young to have a public meltdown, largely because Young's juvenile behavior these last 3 days was impossible to predict. I XDID say that Young's meltdow was good for the team, because it ensures he will be shipped off, which I stil thoroughly believe will happen sooner rather than later. But a simple trade request was probab ly all that JD could possibly have expected (if it turns out that I'm right about all of this).
12) If I'm right that there's been bad blood between JD and MY for years, there's a lot more to the story than any of us knows. Who was wrong back in 2008 when Young felt so disrespected about being asked to move to 3B? Hard to say. But it strikes me as a reasonable request on the surface that a GM has the right to make, so I would suggest it was Young who was wrong there. A lot of people have lost respect for Young this week. I lost it in 2008 over the Andrus situation.
Some non-Joe related thoughts:
I don't believe the Rockies are totally out. This is a negotiating ploy.
If the Astros end up as the destination, the Rangers will not have to chip in too much money, since Carlos Lee is already making $16m for the next two seasons.
Eventually, I think the Rangers will end up eating enough of this contract to bring a lot of buyers to the table (unless a Carlos Lee deal gets done).
Michael Young has the 8th best bat on the team (behind Josh, Nellie, Kinsler, Beltre, Napoli, Murphy, and Moreland). He will not be missed that much.
Scott Podsednik would make a great replacement for Young's roster spot if he's traded for prospects or pitching and not for a positional player (i.e. Carlos Lee).
Adam,
I am sorry that you have devolved into ad hominem and personal attacks.
Anyone who wants to read the thread and look objectively who started these attacks will see that it was Adam and Philly and not me.
I for one will not participate in such nonsense.
Joe
"Okay, got it. You think Ryan was lying. Gotcha."
Randy,
You are just BLATANTLY misrepresenting what I said. You are a liar.
Joe
Carlos Lee funny we can put him in CF next to the statue of Nolan and see who has more range.
Been there done that when he had a bat.
Well said, Scooby.
Joe, how am I attacking you? I have asked if you could tone down the shit eating nonsense, questioned your points and finally came to the conclusion that you are a troll. I don't think it matters though since it's becoming quite clear that you are the only one enjoying your at length diatribes these days.
You are the worst type to argue or reason with because you have already convinced yourself of a few convenient "facts" and nothing anyone shows you will change your mind on that.
I am not trying to personally attack you. However, I think your long winded prose and shit eating schtick takes away from the site. Thats an opinion, not an attack.
Astros said yesterday (according to numerous Tweets) that they are out on Young. Besides, why give up Young's contract just to take on another similar contract?
Despite there being no evidence, I sincerely think this is a JD trick and it's working. Now, Young has to go. And who's to blame? Well, MY is, of course.
If it wasn't a JD trick - then the heavens are looking out for the Rangers. Going into the off-season, the biggest NEEDS were catcher, third base and a way to get rid of MY's contract. Anyone disagree?
@Scooby - As I mentioned the other day, I think Carlos Lee makes a ton of sense... and I wouldn't think any additional money would have to be involved. You're trading a legit position player (albeit limited) for a full time DH in Lee... and that alone may be enough for Houston to pay the 3rd year of MY's deal.
I also agree with the idea of bringing a guy like Posdenik on board as insurance for Borbon.
I do NOT agree with you however on MY being the 8th best hitter on this team. I don't know if you said that for shock value or what but he's a better all around hitter than Kins, Murphy, and Moreland... and probably Napoli too. Make no mistake about it, his bat WOULD be missed. His attitude however will not.