From Smoke to Fire, via Tweet
Prashanth FrancisIt looks like those who just want something to happen with the Michael Young trade drama are likely to get their wish. For a moment, it looked like there was some cold water thrown on the situation:
@SI_JonHeyman
Jon Heyman
vladdy’s $8-mil #orioles deal likely puts an end to any more michael young trade talk. #rangers absolutely need young.
But there seems to be a quickly growing number of people who think that Young will be traded sooner, rather than later.
benandskin Ben Rogers by lonestarball
After doing some digging (after more unavoidable MY trade smoke) starting to feel like Young’s departure is approaching inevitable territory
And:
TroyRenck, Rockies
Here’s why think Young deal will happen w Rox or someone else. There’s motivation from a lot of parties. That’s when trades get done
And:
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Source: #Rangers talking only to #Rockies about Young. 2nd source: Deal could come as soon as Mon. More: http://tinyurl.com/6e8x5y6 #MLB
And, finally:
VictorRojas29 Victor Rojas
@Ken_Rosenthal wouldn’t surprise me if deal is done today or tomorrow…from what I’ve heard, it’s happening. #txrangers
It looks like not only is this happening, it's happening now.
Reader Comments (60)
This is very un-ninja like behavior from our FO.
Well Fudge. What am I supposed to do with my MY shit now. Logistically this makes perfect sense, but part of me is sad. When I first started rooting for the Rangers a few years back, he was my favorite player. Plus, doesn't Napoli suck as a hitter vs. right-handed pitching. If this helps sign Cruz and Elvis (eventually) long-term, Josh, etc. It will eventually be good, but, again, part of me is sad.
Change can be sad, but big money should be paid to 4 or 5 tool guys and ace starters not a player like Young. He has been great for the franchise but it's time to go on tour with Jeter as the poster boys for too much $$ for too little in return.
Ugh. I'm torn.
Sub-hed: Joey Matches gets results
Anyone remember life before the internet? I sure as hell don't.
Jose Lopez. Who else would it be?
I'm torn since MY is was my best trade peice in MLB the Show last year :-(
thatz sports... if yer a fan of Mikey, you'll be a fan of the Rox too. He'll be happy.
We'll miss him in our selfish thoughts. The days of Teix, Mikey and Hank days...
I'm critical of Young at times, he's too expensive and doesn't really have a position where his glove isn't a detriment, and now his bat is in decline. That said, I have very mixed feelings about seeing him go. He is part of the glue of this team. His production will not be that hard to replace but I'm with Jamey Newberg when he says that someone on the team (or multiple someones) needs to step into that void a bit. I think there are some good candidates for that on the roster already in Elvis, Hamilton, Kinsler, Treanor perhaps.
@Skeletor-Napoli & DaMurph would make an outstanding DH platoon.
Man, this whole things is being forced quickly. I don't know how feel on this.
Let's wait and see how this turns out. My question is, if Young leaves, will our DH/DH platoon position post .280/20hrs/90rbis? If not, why are we doing this. Everyone on this website has been preaching WIN NOW! If we lose MY for the future of our team, is it hurting our chances to win this year?
Let's hope JD still knows what he's doing.
Those mentioned as possible leaders are laughable, Elvis the 20 year old, Treanor the back up catcher, Kinsler the often described jerk, Hamilton the Christian so very different than everyone else?
Who else is there: Nellie the fun loving guy, Beltre the one who replaced Mr. Rangers, Moreland the 24 year old shy guy.
I don't see any leaders on this team except for maybe Josh and maybe Nellie but Nellie is too fun loving and Josh is too different from the other guys.
Maybe Colby Lewis but he is so unassuming.
Don't say CJ please, everyone knows he has perfectionism issues.
I love all these guys but none of them are the type that can be recognized as the team captain, none.
This move could easily deeply undercut the Rangers' will to win in 2011.
The issue here is not numbers, the issue is how much this will hurt the Rangers' will to win. The issue is those oft disparaged intangibles, the humanity of baseball.
Honestly, for a team that depended so much on chemistry and mutual support last year, this move could really hurt our will to win.
@Joe So what exactly is Ron Washington's job?
I don't think players need a clubhouse leader to motivate them.
As far as clubhouse leaders go, Josh may not be ready for the full title of team leader, but guys like Murphy, Kinsler and Elvis could all help fill the role. I don't know where you heard Kinsler is a jerk and I will say that I disagree with that statement. Any player who plays SS needs to be a team leader in some form, so Elvis is ALREADY a leader on this team. Murphy is a guy who would see his role increased thus his prominence in the clubhouse should increase. Beltre has always been regarded as a good clubhouse guy, and along with Nellie they are two wonderful examples for our young Latin players to emulate. And Treanor may not be a starter, but a backup catcher can have a profound effect on the game. Catchers look at the game different than other player. They already have to think more like a manager than other players. (Why do you think there are so many managers that were catchers?) Treanor is regarded as a potential managerial candidate down the line, so it would behoove us to utilize his leadership as well.
I don't think any one player would replace MY's leadership, and I'm not totally ok with trading him, but I don't worry too much about our clubhouse because of the others in it.
Everything i read from a Seattle writer said no one works harder than Beltre, and he praised his leadership qualities as well, if I remember the article correctly. This may force some of the others to step into that role as well. Youth/age do not make one a leader or eliminate you as a leader-you either have those qualities or you don't, and I think Elvis has them. Torrealba may have those qualities; Kinsler or Cruz or Hamilton may as well. I firmly believe someone will step forward to fill that role if MY is indeed traded.
This enivitable move is all about $$$. MY has been great for this organization, no doubt about it, but let's face some harsh facts and deal in reality and check your emotions @ the door.FACT: MY is saddled with a hefty backloaded "BAD CONTRACT". FACT: He has become a player w/out a position, and with all due respect and the "team 1st" mantra there's a reason he's not playing 2B, SS, or 3B anymore. FACT: His defense, and his declining offensive #'s while not that bad, make the contract look even worse. If he was making Blanco $, would we even be having this discussion? FACT: Although I do believe there is something to be said for clubhouse chemistry, I don't believe the subtraction of a part time player will cripple this club. FACT: MY's value will only continue to go south, so move him while you can. JD & company will have to eat a substantial portion of the contract to make it work, so do it now. Prefereably to the NL.
Am I wrong???
Why are we so caught up in the team leadership part right now???
Thank you Dwight Shrute... uh, I mean Brandon.
NICE !
If you want to have the money to sign CJ and/or Hamilton long term, you are almost forced to deal Young, yes?
I would disappointed to see Young go because he was one of the few guys that wanted to be here when things were bad (provided he was paid, of course). But it's a business and if it happens, it may turn out to be for the best for both parties. Young would get to play the field on a regular basis with someone and the Rangers would get some type of payroll relief along with a couple of prospects to make it look like a "baseball trade", if only just a little bit.
It's not going to happen. The talking heads are bored. I have no doubt that the FO is probably listening to offers but I find it hard to believe JD will trade him without recieving anything of significance in return. Unless something on the lines of Cargo, Jimenez or Tulowitzki is the return I have a hard time being on board with a trade of MY.
I admire/value/enjoy some of the postings on here, but on the subject of MY, some of you guys want the Rangers to trade him for "a nobody", and also pay him 8 mil a year for not playing with us????....do I got this right????
Joey,
I disagree entirely. A manager's leadership is different than a team captain's leadership. A manager is by necessity more distant, less friendly with his players. This professional distance is necessary regardless of whether the manager is player friendly. A team captain can go and address players in a way that's more personal and less imposing. The players need to gel as players, as a team, and the manger as a more distant and professional leader can't really fully perform that role. Every team needs at least one or two leaders who can step in and form a winning and positive mindset that allows the team to mesh. They provide the communication between players and the example necessary to form the community of players. The manager cannot do this fully (or at least not as effectively as it needs to be done) because he is not a player. Think of a family. Are the only leaders the parents? I think in any family there are many different kinds of leaders that play many different kinds of leadership roles. Think for example how the clubhouse will be without MY around. Wash will be seen as tied to the FO and thus, no matter how much he tries, will not be able to totally do away with the shadow of the departed MY. The players will always feel like he was at least complicit in the decision to move Young, a decision that will inevitably make them sore. This is just one example of how a team needs player leaders to help the guys mesh, and to keep a positive attitude going in the clubhouse. It is all about will to win, and the positive attitude of focus and determination that gets you there. In order to achieve this consistency of focus there needs to be leadership on every level from the FO, to the manager, the coaches, and the players as well. Each leader addresses a different need just as the different parts of the body fulfill different functions. You can also make a strong argument that there are leaders even aside form the de facto captain amongst the players. I would say that if a guy like Guerrero was around I wouldn't be as worried with Young's departure, but like I said, I do not not see anyone who will be able to command the loyalty necessary to be a de facto player leader. If a really positive guy with presence like Guerrero were around I would say you could piece together the remaining necessary leadership from guys like Cruz and Hamilton, but I don't see them being enough on their own. Maybe also Beltre could step up but for at least a while he will just be the guy who replaced Mr. Ranger.
Bottom line is I am very worried about this aspect of the team because the most important ingredient to a winning baseball team aside from talent is THE WILL TO WIN, and I think that is less likely to exist without guys in the clubhouse who are respected by their piers and who can open communication channels between piers as well as fostering a positive attitude.
I don't think the fan understands how easy it is to stagnate on that long trail. We glorify the season but for the players it is emotionally draining in many ways, it is a grind that takes it out of you especially on long road trips. That is why guys always perform better at home. On those long road trips after losing five in a row you need a guy to step up who is respected, a guy who can open up communication, foster a positive attitude, and stir in some fresh air to get things more focused, in short, to get all of the moving parts back up and running, to stir the proverbial drink of the team mixing all of the crucial ingredients into something that can win and win now.
Joe
@ Joe well stated I could not have siad it better myself!!
@Joe
FYI, matchst1ck != Joey Matches. Two different people with my long time internet name similar to his nicknames as a coincidence.
I think the will to win will be there with or without Michael Young. And I think the will to win will diminish if he's unhappy with his role and brings a black cloud into the clubhouse.
I don't think he'd turn into Manny... but if he was unhappy... the whole team would feel it.
I think Wash's best strength is his ability to motivate and get the team playing like a team. It's certainly not his tactical prowess.
The clubhouse minus Young doesn't concern me.
@ Joe, amen to the points you made above... my prediciton: the rangers will still move young in the coming days
If michael young possesses this immense "will to win" why has he made the playoffs exactly once in nearly 10 years? Did the rangers make the playoffs last year b/c young willed it to happen or b/c they were talented?
There seem to be a lot of you that cannot grasp two things about baseball:
1) There are two kinds of fans: those who only care about winning, and those who build up relationships with their favorite team and favorite players.
2) MY loves this community and his Texas teammates. His teammates love him. His loss will affect all the guys who were on the field and in the clubhouse with him last year.
Hmmm... there's also a 3rd kind of fan you didn't mention, Bobby:
Those who like to throw batteries at the opposing outfielders from the home run seats.
Johnny, Talent is a significant piece of the puzzle but its certainly not the be all end all. If it were at least four other teams would have won the world series over the Giants. Every team San Fran played in the playoffs had more talent yet they still managed to be the last team standing. It wasn't talent that got the job done. It was intangibles and momentum. Likewise the Rangers certainly weren't the most talented team in the AL last year yet they managed to beat out each of their AL conterparts and MY was a significant reason why.
Over the previous 10 years the Rangers had talent but MY hadn't become the leader of the clubhouse he is today. That title went to guys like ARod and Texaira. It really wasn't until Young accepted the move to third that he became the true leader of the clubhouse and at that time they didn't have the talent to win.
Clad can barely speak English. How would a speech that has to be translated be? Pretty crappy. There are guys that can fill the void. If Young goes, it'll be pretty damn sad. But you have to look at it through the eyes of a GM too. If this frees up enough money to resign a few guys. Fine. Do it. If they just dump his salary for the hell of it, there's gonna be a lot of pissed off Rangers fans.
Mikey's Angst Starts Smoke... Fire?
Thanks for the Novel(s) and the rah rahz... please, catch a breath. I'm not going to get
into each of your minds of what a captain, leader or Grand Poohbah means to a Team.
It's semantics at best. Read into it what you will. When one gets to this level, ya better
have the nadz to pull up and tuck, before taking field or stepping in the box. Guess what,
there's someone over your shoulder... drooling~ NEXT. Baseball IS a team game... it's also
an individual War. No? Read Cobb's Bio(s). Ask Ted Williams what the pom pom count was,
on those bad BoSox teams. This new smoke & hoopla is coming from the Face.... angst?
Yep, our captain. Mikey ain't happy.
@Joe
You make a good point, but I'm inclined to disagree. If you or I were a professional baseball player, would you try "harder" because of a team captain (or lack there of). Playing at the highest level would imply that we have the right combination of talent and intestinal fortitude to motivate ourselves to perform our best. I appreciate the team chemistry theory, but it is probably less impactful in baseball than in many other sports (i.e. football, hockey, basketball).
I didn't mean to imply that chemistry wasn't at all important, and I do like young for the many reasons listed by others, but I wouldn't be too torn up if he was traded, and I certainly don't think it will cripple this team's will to win. Last years playoff run was special, and michael young undoubtedly played a role, but I don't think he was the driving force behind it.
Ditto song
This move could easily deeply undercut the Rangers' will to win in 2011.
If this is indeed true, the Rangers roster is full of mental midgets who probably should have curled up into the fetal position when they were placed under the bright lights last October.
Yeah. I'm sorry, but I don't buy this for a second. I will readily acknowledge that his leadership and intangibles and everything else has some unquantifiable value to Texas, but this team is not going to roll over and die because Michael Young was traded. What would probably hurt a lot more than the loss of his impact in the room is if enough injuries accumulated that they ended up being a bat short and had to resort to Chris Davis at DH or something else equally deplorable.
Jamey wrote today about his concern about if/when another leader would rise up in the room to assume MY's place, and I think that's a valid concern ... but I also think guys like Elvis and Cruz are primed to emerge as the new vanguard, if this trade actually does go down. And the stabilizing presence in the room (Wash) isn't going anywhere for a long time after presiding over a pennant-winning team.
Do it, do it, do it!
Joe, Elvis is 22 and will be a 3rd year veteran this year. And at every step of his minor league journey the organization talked about his charisma and natural leadership abilities. Last year there were a few times when his clubhouse presence and leadership were mentioned. Andrus will not completely fill Young's leadership shoes of course, but he doesn't have to. These are grown men and they all want to win the world series, whether or not Young is there.
Someone has already mentioned that MY is the Rangers version of Jeter to the Yankees. The analogy is close but the Rangers finances are limited unlike the Yankees; so this move has an additional major consequence for the Rangers. The Yanks really didn't have the financial consequences but the same PR, leadership, and declining bat/glove issues.
With all that being said, if you would agree that the Yanks would be ok to let Jeter walk, then there is one more reason for that you should have for a MY trade.
It's a no brainer for me...thanks MY for the memories and hard work (for which you have been compensated generously, but time to move on).
Doah~
Good one Joey. Mental midgets on the 25Roster? Nope, those are usually the ones
taking extra hits from wet towel pops, all the way out the door. Usually with train ticket
in hand and a job waiting at his hometown Hardware Depot. This Ranger Team is going
to be defending Champions, with or without Young. I see a lot of winners with big nadz.
Don't ask me to rub Beltre's head, ok?
I would like it if someone would explain to me what a "team leader" is supposed to do. Does he motivate the team? That's the manager's job and Wash has done just fine. Does a team leader kick the butts of the other players and keep them in line? I would agree with this definition but Young has never done this. He has always been somone who has 'led by example', never a vocal leader. Young's leadership has always been on the field, in his professionalism and this is what so many fans have grasped onto. Young will be missed but don't give me this garbage that he is a great team leader cause he isn't. He is the epitome of a team player and embodies professionalism and you want that in all your players but don't think more of Young's intangibles than is truly there. The team will play hard and JD will get us an ace and we'll be fine.
A 22 year old leader? That's grasping for straws if I've ever heard it.
Joey and Matches (two different guys I understand),
I do not think that the Rangers will fold if MY is not in the room. However, I do think that the environment could be negatively effected to the point where the team loses significantly more games than it otherwise would have.
I do not think that people here are aware just how easy it is for a team to fall apart under pressure from mlb competition day in and day out. Will the guys fall apart? Will they fold? Of course not! But its not just about going out there and playing for yourself and competing to the best of your ability as you see it. The team has to mesh in such a way where guys are picking it up for other guys who are down, to where the guys are playing for each other in an environment that is conducive to a winning community and not some individualistic pull yourself up by your boot straps mumbo jumbo. That is the sort of stuff that makes uber talented teams fold, and we see that in baseball time and time again because baseball more than other sports is far more mental than it is physical. My high school coach always said baseball is 90% mental. Of course its an exaggeration but I think the point is understandable.
Almost all ball clubs have guys who don't crack under pressure, guys who go out there and play to succeed, but few have guys who play for each other and thus to win.
Perhaps I overstated my case by saying "deeply undercut the will to win," but do you believe there is a possibility that the Rangers could be effected by a MY departure to the point where it effects their winning percentage?
Joe
I don't know how anyone can be for or against this trade without knowing how much money the Rangers have to eat.
Everyone here knows that Face isn't worth16M, but that is a sunk cost. Is it really worth trading him for a mediocre player and a rosin bag if the Rangers kick in three quarters of his salary? In that scenario, keeping him costs you 4M. He's worth that for sure.
Now if the Rangers have to kick in for half his salary? Is Young worth 8M a year? I dunno, it's getting closer to equalibrium.
New ownership has never once indicated that they were being forced to pinch pennies and were willing to go above and beyond any other club to sign Lee. I do agree with you Pull T that it's hard to be for or against anything without knowing exactly were the team stands financially but we do have plenty of statements from ownership claiming that money isn't an issue. Until it's proven otherwise I will take them at face value.
In a column by TR Sullivan this evening he claimes nothing is imminent and the no one as discussed players that might be involved. IMO that seems to suggest that Rosenthal and other national media types are somewhat off base. Like I said earlier they are bored and nothing is as exciting to a journalist as a good old fashioned mud slingin contest. It's what they live for. Well that and witch hunts.
Hey Joe! (love that song) Have you ever seen a player step up and get a hit,
then the next guy does the same, etc etc? Yeah, that's called contagious hitting.
That's also motivation. It dose not take much for a skilled MLB player to "Get IT".
Sure, the season is a grind. but it's their job. They've been in this zone since JrHi.
I don't think you get it, because you are way over anal about 'leadership' mode.
Maybe I missed that step over the last 50 years of Baseball? Nope, I don't think so.
Leaders are nice to have though. One play can spark or morph a team into a frenzy.
Winning, a better application of good talent. Like applied knowledge begats Wisdom
@arp - my comments had nothing to do with the payroll ceiling or where the team stands financially. It has do do with the fact that even though Young isn't worth 16M, he's not a worthless ballplayer. At some point, you have to kick in so much money to trade him that it makes sense to just keep him.
Dear Michael Young:
You are hands down my favorite player. You define professionalism. You are a rock in the clubhouse, and you (and your wife) are a key part of the DFW community. However, this situation just sucks. If the Rangers had a sub .500 season last year, and were expected to do the same again this year, I would pay you as much money as you asked. However, given our recent success, we have every reason to believe this winning trend will continue. We have to put ourselves in the very best position possible to win. Unfortunately, that position does not have you in it. We all love you, and wish things weren't like this at all, because again, you are a rock. I hope that you have a huge year for your new team in the NL, and I hope that if our paths ever cross again, you do not hold it against us that we traded you. You will be forever etched as a large part of me hearing my the sweetest phrase these ears have ever been blessed with hearing, "Welcome to game four of the World Series at the Rangers Ballpark in Arlington." I love you and will miss you, good luck with your team.
Sincerely,
Hutch