Sunday Morning Open Thread: Five Questions
Rich Harden reacts after walking in a run against the Athletics on Saturday, August 7th.1. In light of Rich Harden's latest brutal start against Oakland on Saturday afternoon (2.1 IP, 2 H, 3 ER, 5 BB, 2 K, 1 HR), has the time finally arrived for the Rangers to terminate the Rich Harden experiment and begin rolling with Derek Holland?
2. Knowing what we currently know Cliff Lee and the way in which this winter's free-agent market is setting up, what is the highest you could possibly go in terms of years/dollars on a long-term contract offer while still feeling okay with it? (In other words, if you felt very uncomfortable going beyond, say, five years and $90 million guaranteed, then that would obviously be your answer.)
3. Do you want to see the Rangers switch their Triple-A team affiliation from Oklahoma City to Round Rock? Furthermore, is there really something to the belief that doing so would significantly improve fan interest -- and help bolster revenue streams -- in the Rangers down the I-35 corridor (Waco/Georgetown/Round Rock/Austin/San Marcos/San Antonio)?
4. A question spawned by Joe Posnanski's thought-provoking editorial on steroids in baseball: How convinced are you that performance-enhancing drugs played the single biggest role in baseball's mid-90s power surge?
5. The blindingly obvious ownership-related question of the week: What do you want to see out of the new Chuck Greenberg/Nolan Ryan-led ownership through its first 5-6 months? If you're not sold on them, what is it going to take for you to pronounce them as an early success on the job?
Open Thread, The Season
Reader Comments (60)
1. a hearty YES
2. he is probably worth all he can get, but I dont know how deep our money pockets are.
3. I would think it would help. ... in state...
4. I think so... yes ..... but where do all these no hitters come from??
5. I think just having them is a success, but I want to see how deep the pockets are, Cliff Lee?
from ESPN: Starter Derek Holland went six shutout innings in his Triple-A Oklahoma City start on Saturday, giving up four hits with three strikeouts and two walks.
Holland, who has dealt with rotator cuff inflammation and knee issues this season, threw 95 pitches with 59 strikes. He had eight ground ball outs and seven fly ball outs.
It's unclear if Holland is ready to return to the majors after this start, but he is getting his pitch count up. After Rich Harden's struggles on Saturday, Holland might be a candidate to replace him if the club feels he's fully ready. Stay tuned.
1) Yes, absolutely......we have held on to him too long already.
2) Depends on the money......5 years and $90M is probably what he will go for unless the NYY decide to break the bank to add him to their rotation.
3) Round Rock would be an excellent move for the Rangers AAA affilication.
4) Very convinced that it played a huge role.
5) Money for a few key player improvements, aka Cliff Lee, keeping some of the players we now have and locking them up for a few years, i.e., Hamilton, Vlad, etc.
1. A resounding yes.
2. I think I'm comfortable with 5yrs and 100mil.
3. I'm not sure. I grew up in Waco, halfway between Dallas and Austin and if I were going to drive to a game it would be to the Metroplex to see the Rangers.
4.I. Hate. Steroid. Talk.
5.For me, I'm not really looking for a big splash by ownership to announce their presence with authority. I'd like to see some upgrades to the ballpark but also a level head to increase payroll, not just spending money for spending sake.
1. Let Harden go as soon as Holland is ready
2. I think I'd go as high as $23 million a year for 4 years with a mutual option for the fifth year . I think that would beat out what the NYY (ptui) are paying Sabathia.
3 Don't know. Better marketing in those area might help as much as moving the team. Still it will happen.
4. Not sure -- could be that pitchers have adjusted and that is why the HR count is down. Too many factors to say for sure. One thing sure -- the roids are a dead issue as long as aramdom testing and the harsh policy for violators continues.
5. Improvments at the RBIA, improved marketing and signing some important pieces wouild be evidence enough. I supported Rangers Baseball Express from the start.
1. He gets one more start (@ home, against Boston), and if it's the Rich Harden that we just witnessed yesterday, then he has to be DFA'd. I would think that the fans s will see this as the first indication of how "new ownership" is going to handle player performance ... at this point, even if he has options left (and I have no idea if he does), what is sending him to OKC really going to do ... for him or the team ...
2. 4 yrs. @ $22 M/ yr., with a 5th yr. option that vests easily, and a full No Trade clause ... guarantee the 4 yrs., and if the 5th yr. vests, then it's guaranteed also ... sell him on the chance to be "the guy", with an organization on the rise, instead of just "a guy" in a state where the taxes are ridiculous, and the media anal exam is worse than a trip to the proctologist ...
3. Couldn't hurt ... I mean, I've never heard any complaints about the facilities at OKC, but if the goal is to maximize exposure and tap into potential new areas of interest, what the heck ...
4. Next ...
5. starting next Friday, the meter is running ... certainly, RBE has already developed a "strategy" and is waiting to inact it ... whatever they can do NOW to enhance the experience at TBiA should be first ... lower concessions, adjusting the time that the ballpark is open prior to games ( I love being able to get in early and watch all of BP and warmups) ... I am not familiar with the "lay of the land" as it regards access for the public to the stadium from either Dallas or Ft. Worth, but if there is "Public Transportation" available that would make commuting easier, then I would think that some kind of "joint venture with Jerruh" could be worked out to extend, or expand, the system so that easier access is available ... from what I've read elsewhere, access and parking are two really big issues for people who would otherwise come to more games ...
GO RANGERS !!!
1) If healthy, I think you have to make a move Holland. He should give you at least what you've seen from Harden/Feldman this year. Although I give Harden some credit for coming up big last weekend against the Angels, you can't trust him.
2) Lee is going to cost you in terms of years. He's not going to sign a 3 or 4 year deal. It will end up being something like 6 years at $115 million. Silly money. Can't do it if you have hopes of resigning Hamilton (who should never leave Texas).
3) Seems to be more of convenience to ownership than anything tangible to the product. I guess I don't care. Getting out of Bakersfield makes more financial sense.
4) It had the single biggest impact on the sport since they changed the ball in 1920 or 1921.
5) I'd want them to resign Vlad and see what it would take to buy off Hamilton before he becomes a free agent after 2012. Really Hamilton if he's smart should never leave Texas. I fear what might happen to him in some places like NY.
1. I give him one more start to show what he did last time out. If he can't provide that 2 of 3 times out, I'm moving on.
2. 5 years - $100M.
3. Lived in Austin/Round Rock 8 years, had a business in OKC for 2. No contest, OKC the better baseball market, hands down. They've a gorgeous downtown ballpark in a "happening" entertainment district. OKC is not large, but it's dynamic. The advantage in RR is the Ryan relationship, but I believe leaving OKC is misguided, and a mistake.
4. Bonds never hit more than what 40 homers? He went to 70? McGwire, high 40's to mid 60's? Brady Anderson? Brett Boone? The saying goes "there's something in the water there". As outdated as it's made out to be these days, I believe my eyes.
5. Stem the loss of scouting, developmental, and front office staff. Reward for those who've brought the organization to the top tier among clubs. Bring back any former employees who may have been loyal and valuable but lost their positions simply by virtue of Hicks incompetence.
Move to Round Rock?
I think it's a terrbile idea. You may strengthen the I-35 corridor but you will lose the Oklahoma market. Right now, the Rangers are THE team in Oklahoma. But if the affiliate moves, either the Astros or Cardinals are ready to take it's place. Bam, the market is gone.
And other teams are very interested in this market because the stadium is fantastic (think mini-Arlington) and the team has some of the highest attendance in the minors.
1. Release Harden and go with Holland.
2. Do not sign Cliff Lee at the expense of long term deals with Josh Hamilton and CJ Wilson and a two-year agreement with Vlad.
3. Make the OKC-Austin decision based on market analysis.
4. Of course steriods was a major factor.
5. Ownership should commit to the front office staff by signing JD, Preller and others to long-term contracts and to the fanbase by convening focus groups that will generate a priority list for consumer-friendly improvements. Also, discuss life after playing baseball with Michael Young and test his interest in becoming intregral to the player development team. Consider altering his contract to make a transition after 2013 and freeing some of his $16 million per year for the coming payroll spike.
1. YES, RIGHT NOW! If Holland is healthy you have to bring him up now. Eat Harden's salary and tell him to pack his bags. The train to 'nowhere' leaves in the morning. Chalk Harden up one of the WORST free agent signing mistakes in the history of the club. bummer.
2. Somewhere in the ballpark of 5 years, $100 million sounds about right. It's a certainty that the Yankees offer will best ours. I think we have to really hope that the team goes deep in the playoffs, he develops some great relationships with our players/front office, and that he wants to stay closer to his home in Little Rock. It's probably the only chance we have of keeping him. The Yankees will not be outbid.
3. Indifferent. MLB Wins/Playoff Appearances are what will generate interest in team down the I-35 corridor. Not where AAA is located.
4. Sadly...VERY convinced.
5. Lock in Clif Lee, Josh Hamilton, and Jon Daniels for the long run. Not so certain that a long-term extension for Vlad is worth the risk. Re: Fan exerience: Maybe HD video board in right field?
1. We're in a drive to win the pennant. Harden is a LIABILITY in that drive. Get 'em out of there as soon as possible. No control. Too many walks....he's hurting the team.
2. I would love to see Lee locked up for 5 years (maybe 6?), but how much $$$$$ is it going to cost. How much will Ryan/Greenberg be willing to go to get him? Yes, there is money to spend, but if they pay Lee absurd money will it prevent the Rangers from pursuing other top notch players?
3. I figure the Rangers will do what financially makes sense as far as their AAA team. If it makes financial sense and marketing sense to move them back into Texas then that's fine too.
4. Steroids marred the era. Home runs were hit out of parks by everyone and we were all too blinded to see the truth.
5. I'm already sold on Greenberg/Ryan.
(1) Yes..........Please
(2) Whatever he will accept
(3) Yes
(4) Very
(5) Not seeing Tom Hicks in the owners box ever again
1. We can't afford to have Harden pitch any more. Too much inconsistency. I'd much rather run unproven rookies out there than have to watch Harden have a line like this every other start: 2.1IP, 2H, 3R, 3ER, 1HR, 5BB, 2SO.
2. 5 years, 100 mil is not out of the question. He still wouldn't be the highest paid pitcher in baseball, which he deserves to be.
3. As an OKC resident, I am biased. I like being able to watch the prospects. Let Nolan make the decision. He's smarter than me and I won't even pretend to know what the impacts are of moving vs. staying.
4. Tiired of this topic. Nobody needs to be convinced that steroids did in fact play the largest role.
5. Essentially, the new ownership group (whether it expicity promises it or not to fans) must do everything in its power to re-sign the following people in this order: 1. Jon Daniels, 2. Cliff Lee, 3. Hamilton, 4. Vlad, 5. CJ Wilson, 6. Oliver, 7. O'Day, 8. Francisco, 9. anyone else deemed necessary.
It is important to note that Hamilton, CJ, and O'Day are arbitration eligible and could be re-signed that way, but they really deserve contracts. After they take care of the people, then you take care of the ballpark and the fans. That would be a really awesome 5-6 months.
Off the subject but.............Eric Karros may be th worst color commentator of all time....
1. Dump Harden as soon as Holland is ready. That is probably a couple of OKC starts away. He needs to get the pitch count up and get some stamina built. Holland is the future and he needs to be in the mix.
2. No more than five years but I'd to $100 million if needed. I'd probably even pay $100 for four years and a cheap option.
3. Yes, a move to Round Rock is a good move.
4. Yawn
5. I have been a long-term JD fan and apologist. I recall being ridiculed last year on the Evan Grant chats for saying JD was doing great and that his biggest bloopers were on orders from Hicks/Hart/Showalter. Wow. Winning does cure cancer.
Sign JD ASAP. Then get the key players signed. Make sure we never loose another Purke. Personally I find the scoreboards annoying but I guess I'm a minority of one.
1. Harden can't be trusted. Holland may or may not struggle once coming up to the majors but I feel that it may be his time to get his shot again.
2. I would offer 5 years, around $90 to 95 mil guaranteed. To make it fair for both, have scheduled performance incentives.
3. I have been to many games at the Bricktown Ballpark in OKC and it's a fantastic minor league stadium with a little bit of major league feel. Taking that away from OKC would be a incredibly bad idea.
4. Without a doubt.
5. Don't give into the temptations to spend money. That's what happened to Hicks and while I trust Greenberg/Ryan group, don't strap your new franchise with onerous contracts and bad decisions.
3. Insterest in the Rangers in Austin is suprisingly lukewarm but, when I have converted a few Astros fans. I would like to have the AAA affiliate 20min up the road from me and I imagine the other Sallas transplants in this town would aswell, at least I can vouch for my posse. I've been watching Round Rock Express games for too long and I believe it would indeed start to convert Austin to a Rangers town.
5. The Ownership will make a move to retain John Daniels and his crew. He and his staff are paramount to this organization's prolonged success.
@A View From The Swamp
About your number 1, I don't think we can afford to give him one last chance...against Boston of all teams. As soon as the dutch oven is ready, we need to send him in and send Harden to oblivion.
1. One more start for Harden. Holland isn't ready.
4. Does the sun come up in the East. I can't believe this is even under discussion.
Although I give Harden some credit for coming up big last weekend against the Angels
He didn't. He had an outing around a 5.0 xFIP. He just got good luck with balls being hit at fielders, fly balls staying in the park, and a HR coming with no one on base.
It was one of his best starts all year... which only shows how terrible the guy is now.
I do want to add that moving from OKC is an absolutely horrible idea. The OKC connection is the only reason Oklahoma fans like Rangers baseball. They will definitely move on to St Louis or KC and we don't need that.
1. Start Feldman instead of Harden until Holland is ready. Feldman is a 4.84 xFIP this year. Tommy Hunter is a 4.85. Harden is a 5.83.
Feldman hasn't been good, but the difference in him and Hunter (for example) has simply been LOB% and BABIP luck at opposite extremes of the spectrum. Harden is not even close. He needs to go and never should have been brought back.
I do want to add that moving from OKC is an absolutely horrible idea. The OKC connection is the only reason Oklahoma fans like Rangers baseball. They will definitely move on to St Louis or KC and we don't need that.
I would rather have greater ownership of the Austin/San Antonio/South Texas markets. More people, more money, more talent, etc.
The Rangers should have much greater ownership of this state than they currently do, and they are in a great position to start taking more market share from the Astros.
What do you want to see out of the new Chuck Greenberg/Nolan Ryan-led ownership through its first 5-6 months? If you're not sold on them, what is it going to take for you to pronounce them as an early success on the job?
First 5-6 months? No major changes needed. Let Daniels continue to call the shots, and keep in place the plan Hicks/Daniels/Levine put in place years ago.
More payroll would be nice, but it's not my money, so I hope they spend at a level that keeps the club profitable or at loss levels they are comfortable sustaining, whatever that level is. They are being left a club that is in the best shape it's ever been in its 50 years as a franchise, so they can probably afford to be a little more aggressive with spending than in most years.
1. Please God... make it stop.
2. 27 packs of trident layers gum... give or take 90 million dollars
3. Oh yeah. Our farm system is worth watching. Unlike anything else in Mobilehoma. And Austin is already Rangers territory. Now lets seal the deal.
4. More roids please! (They go good on waffles.)
5. Assassinate Tom Hicks.
Harden should be DFAd IMMEDIATELY. Bum underneath 820/35W overpass can pitch better.
20 Mil/yr for 5 years provided that doesn't affect resigning Hamilton, Vlad, etc.
I live in Hill Country. There is a bunch of Astro fans around here that are looking for a team to replace the moribund experience going on in Houston.
Steroids were the 90s
Ryan already means credibility. I'm more comfortable with Ryan running the team on a 50 mil payroll rather than Crane/Cuban running the team on unlimited payroll.
1. Holland probably would benefit from 2-3 more starts in okc before bringing him back. Roll Harden out one more time, then maybe Feldman for 1 or 2, unless things are getting tight.
2. 4yrs/90 mil or 5/100-no higher. Got to know when to walk away from the table.
3. If they are moving out of Bakersfield this year, can we put our High A affiliate in RR? That way, we keep Oklahoma and expand into the Austin area as well.
4. Past history.
5. Wise allocation of resources-know what you're willing to spend for a player and walk away when/if the price gets too high. Don't bid against yourself(like Hicks did with arod) and remember that one player does not a team make. Beware the Boras...
1) Yes...my good friend who is a cubs fan laughed whole-heartedly when I mentioned Harden at the outset of the season. He's laughing harder now.
2) The rest of the team was, is, and will be pretty good for a while without him so just don't give up the farm to keep him. Losing anyone in the top half of the lineup over Lee and would be a mistake.
3) PLEASE MOVE THEM TO RR!! I live in Austin.
4) Why is this still a question?
5) I'm sold. Just keep doing the ship headed in the same direction.
The need to install "cool zones" in all the cheap seats. When I go to six flags, all I do is stand next to one of those. Give me a cool breeze and a mist and I'm there.
It might even turn us into a pitchers ballpark.
1. Throw Harden one more time, see if he can right himself, if not Holland is almost ready to go.
2. 5 yr $100 million
3. Selfishly yes. I'm a RR/Austin resident, have interned at the Dell Diamond and would love to have more access to see the Rangers minor league guys. I think people who were questioning the move due to the facilities or the fan support will quickly realize those to be moot points after a visit or two to Round Rock.
While I see that losing the Oklahoma-market is a concern for people, I'd like to point out that I can count fellow Rangers fans in the RR/Austin area on one hand. Allegiance in this area is mostly reserved for the Astros, and that can certainly be changed with the insertion of the Triple-A squad for the Rangers.
4. Not convinced.
5. They need to show a motivation to spend money in accordance with JD's offseason wishes. Also, they need to move towards getting a better video board installed.
1. Harden needs to go. Letting him throw one more game is pointless and a waste of a game.
2. Won't matter. He'll go to NY. Pinstripes are magic, you know. *sigh*
3. This is one of those upside/downside issues. I agree with the commenter above - make the decision based on sound market analysis and not anecdotal evidence and commentary.
4. Duh. Can we move on?
5. Run Tom Hicks out of town with a baseball bat shoved...um...ok...be responsible, increase payroll, win a bunch of games, get a new video board and do something about the gutter system over sections 247 - 251.
1) Yes, but it's not that big of a deal. Sure, Harden was signed on to be the ace of the team, but he's the number 5 starter. Anything we get from him would be bonus. It's more important, however, to get Holland up here to see Cliff Lee first-hand.
2) 6 years, $110 million. Joey wrote an article a few days ago about how he'll be in his late 30s at this point, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. Control pitchers (which Lee is) succeed much later into their careers than fastball pitchers. Even if he loses a few MPH, both Jaime Moyer and Tom Glavine succeeded for a long time on slow stuff. a TORP is hard to find - get him and don't look back.
3) Sure, why not. I live in Dallas and have found myself at a few Rough Riders games, but I doubt a AAA affiliate in Round Rock is going to make a ton of difference one way or another. Casual fans don't care about minor league baseball.
4) With all of the hoopla around steroids, there have been many articles and people saying that it increases size, but not so much strength. How much of it was psychological? You know, the "placebo effect"?
5) Jon Daniels and a parking garage. If that fails, 10 cent beer. I honestly don't think who the owner is makes a difference any way you slice it, and the lingering problem of attendance could only be solved by mass transit being installed from Dallas to Arlington (or a stadium in Dallas), which will never happen.
3. I have lived in Austin for 6 years and there are plenty of reasons to move AAA to Round Rock. For one, Austin is the 15th largest city in the country & growing. OKC is the 31st largest city. The people of Austin are notorious "bandwagon" fans (looking at you longhorn fans) who will follow anything that wins, so as long as the Rangers and their farm are putting up W's they will be huge down here. And finally for those who think the Rangers already own the Austin market, think again. Time Warner Cable puts Rangers games on TWC channel 77, a channel reserved for Infomercials. The Astros games are broadcast on FSSW. It would be easier for someone new to Austin to find a hockey game on tv. The radio broadcast for the Rangers is on ESPN Deportes. Good luck finding that. There is plenty of room to grow the Rangers brand in the Austin area.
1. I'd let Harden go now and either give Holland the ball or let him make one more rehab start and have Feldman/Harrison make a fill in start.
2. Not sure, I'd love to have him back but I'm gun shy after some of the bad contracts we've had in the past decade. Does he even like it in Texas? The only person they ever show him talking to is C.J. and he's gotta love all the run support we give him.
3. I think it would be nice to increase our fan base here down south. Plus, when I go visit my parents down near College Station they only get Astros games.
4. Steroids had a huge impact. The counter argument is that steroids can't help your hand-eye coordination, ya da ya da ya. These guys already have great hand-eye coordination or else they wouldn't be hitting in the minors/majors. Being stronger makes some of those bloops get over the infielder's heads and some of those warning track fly balls are now home runs. There is no denying that steroids make you stronger and being stronger would help.
5. I hope they don't feel like they have to do anything extra to please me, I'm happy with the way they've been operating. As long as we're winning, all is good. They can make changes around the stadium, new score board, things like that. It unfortunately won't draw me to any more games than I'd already attend. It's an hour drive one way and we have a young baby, too hot for her during day games and too late past bedtime for night games. We'll just watch from home for a few more years.
1. I would have him skip a start and give him 1 more chance. Another outing like that and he is done as a Ranger. The Ballpark in Arlington will not be his friend. Those fly balls will be HR's.
2. 4 Years, option for the 5th year around 20M/year.
3. Stay in OKC!
4. It had a HUGE impact. Palmeiro's transformation? Are you kidding me. McGuire hitting line drives off the facing of the uppder deck in RF no less.
5. Finish out this season strong and continue the direction that is already in motion. If it makes sense then sign Lee. Definitely sign Hamilton .
1. DFA Harden in favor of Holland or Michael Kirkman.
2. 5 year/$100mil ... structured w/years 1 - 3 earning $25mil each w/years 4 - 5 earning $12.5mil w/incentives earning additional $8mil if performance is achieved. Mutual buyouts in year 4 and 5.
3. Needs close review as will not improve player development and may not achieve additional "vertical" TEX fan support as speculated. Believing that TEX can steal long time Houston fans when those fans are in the Houston telecast market is niaive. Example: Arkansas Travellers have been LAA's AA franchise since 2001 yet prepondant area baseball fans support STL (Travs were STL AA franchise from 1966 - 2000) and TEX since Central Arkansas is in the FSNSW market. For the most part the only time central Arkansas LAA fans get to see LAA play is against TEX.
Further, swapping OKC for RR adversely affects HOU. Driving round robin from HOU to Corpus to RR to HOU is just over 600 miles. Moving the AAA franchise to OKC more than doubles the round robin mileage. HOU might move its AAA franchise to OKC if it isn't able to renew in RR ... but it also might then move its AA team out of Corpus to keep the two minor league teams closer. Witchita which lost its AA team in 2006 would be receptive to hosting HOU's AA franchise. Tulsa is currently COL AA franchise but it might exchange with HOU and move to Witchita which is closer to its Colorado Springs AAA team if the price was right.
In my opinion all the speculation about TEX moving from OKC to RR might be to get HOU to bid more for RR to continue being its AAA host.
5. Address payroll deficiencies by extensions on key TEX veterans (Hamilton, Cruz) and new contract for Lee immediately following 2010 season.
1. It has been much talked about that our next year rotation will be Lewis, Hunter and Wilson, and two other guys. I hope one is Lee. The other is a short list that has to begin with Holland. Holland needs to be in the starting rotation getting experience for next year. I'd rather watch him learn how to pitch then watch Harden forget. I would also like Holland to experience first hand how fellow southpaw Lee pitches rather than Wilson.
2. I would spend 5 years and $100 million but front load the deal. Something along the lines of $25,$25,$18,$17,$15. This will allow us to spend more on Hamilton, and company when they become free agents in a few years.
3. I live in Minnesota, so unless the team moves to Fargo, I will have to contend myself with jaunts to Des Moines when they play the Iowa Cubs.
4. Steroids were just one factor. I think it has more to do with baseball owners trying to compete with football by favoring high scoring games to well pitched games. Home runs make ESPN highlights, strikeouts and double plays don't.
5. Sign Cliff Lee.
Steroids help make you stronger so you have increased bat speed. As someone who did some scouting in the past, bat speed is the first trait you look for in a hitter. With increased bat speed, the batter can take longer to look at a pitch before deciding to swing. This increases his ability to discern a good pitch from a poor pitch, a slider from a fastball, etc. Therefore, he becomes a more disciplined hitter because he can wait longer and thus recognize the pitch better before swinging at a pitch. This results in more walks, fewer strikeouts, and A HIGHER BA, as well as more long balls.
The higher BA, reduced K's, and more walks are often overlooked by those who say it does not help your hand-eye coordination.
Steroids helps a hitter become a better all-around hitter. That distorts the game for those who try to play the game straight.
Anyone that thinks Harden is one of the worst FA deals ever is a complete MORON. One year deal for a guy that is 20 games over .500 is his career, with a career era of about 3.60. It was a risk but not a huge risk. It was definitely a great chance to take, just didn't work out.
1. Harden gets one more start, doesn't deserve it but...
2. 4 @ 90 which is probably as good as 4 @ 100 in NY
3. OKC helps out of state market and they have very good facilities.
4. It amazes me that people can have the truth staring them right in the face but deny it. Steroids weren't the only factor but by far the biggest factor.
5. Keep on keepin on.
@DMax ... no need to use the term moronic. That's uncalled for.
What is questionable is to consider a players career numbers for anything other than HOF consideration ... especially when that player has major parts of 3 seasons lost to the DL and a mediocre 2 seasons in the NL since he had his best season.
@slowcloud
I don't think what you said makes sense. It may help bat speed...maybe...but the rest of your argument is confusing. Steroids reduced strikeouts? I don't think so. Do you have numbers to support this? The following is a chart of league average (by team) number of strikeouts for every 5 years from 1974-2009.
1974-812
1979-771
1984-865
1989-910
1995 (instead of strike shortened 94)-908
1999-1037
2004-1061
2009-1120
Instead of the decreased number of strikeouts as we entered that "steroid-era" as you have suggested, it seems the trend is the other way around. It's fairly obvious that strikeouts have been on the way up regardless of PED's.
Another point, are we forgetting that pitchers used steroids too?
lol. There have been a lot of terrible deals we have given pitchers, and we have traded for some terrible guys. Forgotten about Chan Ho and McCarthy already? Had we given Harden a three to four year deal then it would have been bad, This was a good risk to take, just like the risk we took on Lewis.
Time to cut bait on Harden
Doesn't make much difference what lee is offered if the Yankees want him and are willing to over spend.
I'd would like to see the AAA team stay at OKC. I think it does more good there as far as spreading fan interest. The only thing that will ever spread interest locally or in state is winning.
Did steroids make a difference? Look at the numbers..
Bump payroll a little and maintain current course.
I have a question... With so many good moves by John Daniels is he due now for a clunker on the level of the Chris Young or John Danks trades? If he has another clunker will he be forgiven? Interesting...
By the way, why are we still experimenting with Harden in August?
I'd rather we take a can of gasoline and pour it on a national fire then see Harden pitch again. Hell he is like putting gasoline on a fire. Holland is better then Harden now, but want him in the minors to build up innings and a lil more work. But the main reason Holland needs to be up here is so he can soak up EVERYTHING he can from Lee. Holland had better pure stuff then Lee, harder fastball, ect, but what Lee has is that control, pitchability and knowledge of how to set up hitters and how to repeat his delivery. Those are things Lee can teach and Holland should be learning. Thats why Holland NEEDS to be up here
1. One more start for Harden, then Holland unless Harden look pretty stout.
2. Like $90ml for 4yr comment, equal to $100/ml in NY net of state tax
3. Why not move AA Frisco to Round Rock and keep AAA in OKC. Rangers kind of have DFW locked up.
4. Steroids - ugh
5. Keep focus on building minor league system for the long term.
The Rangers signed Rich Harden because he has quality stuff and playoff experience despite a history fragile health. Right now they can afford to give Rich every opportunity to get it straightened out before Sept. 1, the deadline for the post season roster. If he can't get it together by then, expect him to be DFA at that time.
The Rangers need to redefine it's core players. If they feel Lee is part of their core for the next 4-5 years, then they need to go after him. However, we learned from our A-Rod experience that we can't devote too large a percentage of our payroll on one player. Given that, we need to determine a ceiling they can afford. So, the real question is what will the total salary budget be under the new owners. Expect Cliff Lee to sign in the $15-18M/4-5 years. Can we afford Lee?
I feel sorry for our fans in OKC. They have done nothing to deserve losing the Rangers. However, RBX paid $593M. They must grow their market size to maximize the ROI for their investors. Round Rock makes business sense. That minor league location is the best growth area in area of the country. And Nolan owns it. The Austin-San Antonio markets hang in the balance. No brainer.
PEDS. Move on.
RBX: Sign Lee.