Sunday Morning Open Thread: Five Questions
Cliff Lee prepares to be unclothed by a Charlie Brown-style line drive back through the box in Baltimore on Saturday, August 21st.1. Was the decision to push Cliff Lee to throw another 40 pitches on top of the 67 pitches he had already thrown during his four awful innings on Saturday misguided? On top of that, are the Rangers risking Lee's September/October effectiveness by not lending him any extra days of rest right now?
2. With Michael Young still appearing to be an defensive liability at third base (on the order of 10-15 runs below average defensively per 150 games or so), do the Rangers risk another early 2009-type P.R. fiasco with Young by attempting to move him to designated hitter/first base if they find a superior option at third base this winter? For that matter, what are the chances that he actually plays out the remainder of his contract at third base?
3. Should the Rangers strongly consider making a serious run at keeping C.J. Wilson over the long haul --- a very expensive proposition, to be certain -- even if they somehow manage to retain Cliff Lee's services with a nine-figure contract?
4. Mitch Moreland has enjoyed a very successful start to his career (.314/.426/.529; .413 wOBA), but would the Rangers be prudent in ponying up the cash/prospects for a protective veteran first base option in the event that Moreland begins next season as their starting first baseman, but hits the sophomore skids ala Julio Borbon, Taylor Teagarden and Chris Davis? In other words, have there been enough recent failures to warrant greater attention to the veteran depth behind the Rangers' younger position players?
5. And just for the heck of it: What is the best live music show that you've ever seen?
Open Thread, The Season
Reader Comments (30)
1) If the Rangers were sitting there this morning with a 10 or 11 game lead, then perhaps they'd entertain giving Lee an extra day here and there ... but with the team's apparent lack of quality depth now rearing its ugly head, every win is crucial ...
2) It would depend on who/whom the Rangers could bring in ... and how the Rangers FO approaches Michael ...
3) Yes ... if it's really about winning going forward ...
4) Yes ... this will be the area, in the off-season, where the new ownership gets to "prove their chops" ... finding quality, capable players for depth ...
5) Brooks & Dunn, opening for Reba ... classic!!
1) Yes....absolutely! Once again poor managerial decisions.
2) Some decisions will have to be made on Young over the winter. He will howl like you know what but we need a top notch defensive third baseman.....Young would be ideal at DH and back up in the infield.....Vlad may be expendable considering his age and his second half stats.....
3) Yes....go after C.J. for the long haul. I would have to question how expensive he should really be....he has had only one season as a starter......look what happened to Feldman, money wasted.
4) Keep Moreland........and Davis could be (hopefully) a late bloomer at the MLB level.......these two, if Davis hits his true potential and Moreland continues to grow, could be our answer at the two infield corner spots???
5) n/a
Lee has been abused by gypsy managers named after presidents. Actually the Rangers need a Jackson, Jefferson or Franklin to win the Faces of money contest. to go w/ Wash & Hamilton
Does he give you more than he takes to keep him.? It's not pretty or Post Season like but he's our Mike.
I was one who expected CJ to be shipwrecked in someones Bullpen by now but the guy is Golden. Keep Him!
Rangers lead the league training first sackers that they give up on who go on to star for other teams. Pena, Tex, Gonzo II, Smoak w/o mirrors (The list is endless) Can't we just agree that one of these is going to pan out? the last i looked they had more first basemen in the Minors than Pitchers....Well, almost.
Best live show. That would have been Tijuana. It was a donkey and this......oops. i think it was the horn section.
Texas should have already utilized off days to afford Lee an occasional extra days rest between starts. Unfortunately, there aren't many off days left in the season to rectify the situation. Perhaps the team should consider a couple of spot starts by a 6th starter to get some extra rest for Lee, whose recent performances suggest the overuse is taking it's toll. If there is a September collapse such that the Rangers don't make the playoffs, the finger will be squarely pointed at Washington/Maddux for their handling of Lee as the culprit.
2. It's too early to decide on Michael, though his defensive regression this season is terribly disappointing.
3. In the end CJ may be this team's #1, and to me is more important to keep than C. Lee.
4. Washington always prefers a veteran.
5. In a true show of my age, I've been thrilled every time I've seen the Beach Boys live, which is around a dozen; but the best overall performance was in the late 60's --- Ike & Tina Turner at the Apparel Mart for an SMU dance!
Lee won't be here next year, go ahead and get the most you can out of him.
Who you going to replace him with? Not much out there at third, Beltre will cost 12-15 mil.
YES! Not going to get Lee, spend half of his money on CJ.
Yes, Moreland will end up having a Murphy type of career, need to find a permanet first basemen.
Tool, the greatest rock band alive today!! Just saw them in Houston last month, INCREDIBLE!
1. I've got zero problem with the handling of Lee. Keep in mind, he started this season a month later than all other pitchers. His pitch count in one game does not change the fact that his season pitch totals are in line.
2. He gets told this offseason that 2011 is his last year in field. If his pride kicks in and he's able to effect a change in strength, quickness, and conditioning that emphasizes the skill set needed to play over there, then fine, that's not a bad thing. But he's going to have to come to terms with being this teams DH after 2011.
3. I'm not sure they can keep both. If they sign Lee they should probably sell high on Wilson. If they can't sign Lee then of course lock up CJ.
4. I'd bring a RH vet presence in. just to drive AJM crazy if nothing else, :)
5. Johnny Rivers. for all us old guys
1. Something's up with Cliff. I don't know what it is or anything but the Cliff Lee we're seeing is not typical Cliff Lee. Give him a little bit of extra time off to see if he can figure out whatever's bugging him. He's a veteran guy so he'll snap out of it but he needs the opportunity to find out what it is first and he's not going to get that opportunity when he pitches every fifth day.
2. I like Michael at third base. There's no one else out there in free agency. If we moved Michael who would take his place? Chris Davis? No thank you but I'd prefer to have someone who provides better offense and I may not be right in this assessment but I really think we need to stick with MY at third no matter what. His defense may be getting worse but it's better than any other options out there. There's no one else to take his spot so I'd take my chances with MY.
3. CJ Wilson over Cliff Lee. Period. I said this before on another site but I think Cliff has done his job in training CJ and I'd like him to stay but if that means we have to lose CJ I would like to say goodbye to Cliff because CJ is a younger version of Cliff and right now down the stretch he seems to have things more figured out than Cliff does. CJ Wilson needs to be our #1 starter going forward with or without Cliff.
4. I like Mitch Moreland as our first baseman going forward. Cantu has been good in the backup or platoon role or whatever they're calling it now. I'd stick with Moreland and Cantu if I could with Moreland being the starter and Cantu taking the backup role but moving to primary first baseman if Moreland hits the sophomore slump. Moreland has been proving himself at the major league level. I think he deserves a shot.
5. Not sure on this one but good question!
1. Lee needs rest just like anyone else.
2. Young is definitely a liability at 3rd base. I talk to him 24 hrs after the season ends about moving to 1st. Make him think its his idea. Not DH though, we have plenty of those.
3. As odd as this sounds, I think it is imperative that we sign CJ. Even if that means not signing Lee. Like Kenny Rogers, CJ is not intimidated by pitching in Arlington heat.
4. See #2. We need a viable veteran option in case Moreland slumps. Remember, Chris Davis looked a lot like Moreland does now when he first came up.
5. Hank Williams, Jr. 1984, Taylor County Coliseum, Abilene Texas. Earl Thomas Conley Opened. Hank hit the stage at 9 PM and they carried him off kicking and screaming at 3:00 AM.
I was never wholly on the Cliff Lee bandwagon. However, I do agree that this isn't "normal" Cliff Lee. It may be that he isn't going to up to snuff here. Since he probably isn't going to stick around anyway, use him but be aware of the limitations he's displaying - don't just assume he's going to throw nine innings with two hits every time he's up to pitch.
Baseball is a business. I love Michael Young but he's fading, I'm afraid. He can't stay at third base if he can't play it. Either he steps up for the team or he has to be replaced.
Keep CJ if at all possible (and not just because we have the same initials lol). Don't let him wind up in pinstripes. That requires not only paying him what he's worth but doing whatever is necessary to have depth behind him in the pitching lineup and quality performance behind him on the field. It's a macro situation, not a micro situation.
I'm still out for deliberations on the first base situation.
Texxas Jam 1982.
Give the guy a break. Enough with the rental approach. He'll be needed next month, too.
Sooner or later Young is going to have to accept that he can't play 3rd base. The DH roll is his next position and I question whether or not he'll be able to fill that will weak grounders to the right side of the infield.
CJ gets my money. 100 million to a 32 year old pitcher is putting yourself on the highway to hell.
I think Moreland brings a better bat and approach to the plate than Davis ever did but as we've seen lately, good back ups essential.
The 1964 Tribute Band that does the Beatles music was outstanding as was the Jersey Boys musical.
Hard to single out just one.
1. It spared the bullpen so no it wasn't misguided. At the same time, Lee's performance has been pretty terrible so far in August to say the least. Only 1 outing out of 5 in which he's had a game score above 52. A lot of that is on the D but SEA's D wasn't exactly that great behind him either. Skip one of his starts if it's against a weak team. He needs some rest to get it back together.
2. Ask him politely to move to DH or 1B. If he refuses, that's the end of it and he stays at 3B. What else can we do? Aside from Beltre, there won't be any FA 3B'men available this offseason who are starter-quality and I think BOS makes Beltre their #1 re-signing priority among all the FA's they'll have in the offseason.
3. Didn't we give a lot of dough to Feldman after only 1 solid year? Why not give Wilson another year to see if he can reprise his performance before trying to extend him?
4. I'd bring in another young and hungry 1B'man to give Moreland and Davis competition for the 1B job in spring training, someone like Kila Kaaihue who might be expendable in KC. KC might bring up Hosmer to play 1B next year as well as Moustakas to play 3B so Butler would go from 1B to DH and Gordon would move from 3B to LF. That leaves no room for Kaaihue who can only play 1B and DH. I think having a guy eager to prove himself after being stuck in the minors for so long time would be a good thing and keep Moreland and Davis on their toes. Kaaihue is also an OBP machine who hit for average and walked a ton in the minors. He could be another Gaby Sanchez=type late-bloomer.
5. Chris Cornell last year. His voice is back and while his music and backing band are pretty tame compared to when he was with Audioslave and Soundgarden, he still really puts his all in to his live performances. Hard to believe he's so old now (46).
1. Why? It's not like he throws 120 plus pitches every start.
2. Even Young should realize how underwhelming he is at 3rd base. I keep hearing and reading people saying he's solid at 3rd. These people dont watch the Rangers, they just look at his stats and go with him being ''solid.'' He'not solid , he's not even average. Get his arse at DH and try to find a third baseman this Winter.
3. I hope CJ would be reasonable about getting paid, but so far he's earned a nice raise. I hope the Rangers don't let him get away.
4. You always need some insurance for iffy spots. Thank god for Mitch, but the extra depth never hurts.
5. Back when I was 12, my cousin took me to a Common show in Austin. One of the best nights of my LIFE. Commons still my favorite hip hop mc, regardless of his ''MEH'' movie career.
Considering how brittle Ian Kinsler is, and considering his value as an offensively-minded 2B, the team really has to think hard about whether they should trade Kinsler in the off-season and move Young back to his original position - 2B. Young as DH isn't a bad idea, but he isn't going to like it, and he's not going to hurt you as much at 2B. The team might be able to get a 1B, a 3B, a SP, or an OF - a good one - for Kinsler.
I know that sounds drastic, and I do like Kinsler. It's just look - here we are again in the crucial weeks of the season, and where is Kinsler? Injured. Doesn't that seem to be a pattern?
1. Give Lee some extra days rest.
2. MY should be the Ranger's DH in 2011. Trade for Alberto Gonzalez (Washington Nationals) at 3B.
3. Let Cliff Lee walk. Sign Hamilton and CJ Wilson to four-year contracts. Transition Feliz to starter.
4. Start Mitch Moreland in 2011. Sign a veteran backup.
1. He won't be here next year but he should be rested as much as possible for the late run.
2. He's hurting us at 3B. If I'm Greenberg or Ryan, I have a "sit down" with MY at the end of the year and let him know that he will not be a 3B next year. MY can decide if he wants it to be his idea or the ownership.
3. Yes, I was not a big fan of CJ's before the season but I've earned a ton of respect for him. Keep CJ!!!
4. Got to have depth.
5. Robert Earl Keen
1. He needs a little rest down the stretch. rude him for all hes worth though.
2. They have not been shy about giving young guys a shot lately. Who is the
young guy at third though? Young won't be everyday 3rd base next year. Platoon and DH maybe?
3. Sign him up ASAP
4. Moreland
5. U2 Radio City Music Hall 1984. The day I really started listening to music
1. Yes it was misguided but we should be used to that by now. It would be nice to give him some extra rest and hope that will come soon. The good thing is I don't think the O's are going to be playing in Oct because Lee can't pitch against them and our offense can't score against their awesome pitching staff.
2. I like what A Stephens said.
3. Did you really just ask that question? Duh!
4. No, unless SD wants to give us AG back.
5. Mercyme, Jeremy Camp and others Springfield, Mo last year.
1. Yes. TEX should have given him a sprout way earlier and let us see more of Michael Kirkman's stuff.
2. No. He was coming off a GG season when Elvis was the better option in 2009. No chance he finishes up at 3b. In addition to DH there is always 1b and LF.
Short of acquiring a new everyday 3bman ... maybe TEX platoons MY and CD. CD at 3b and MY DH against RHP and MY at 3b and a RH hitter against LHP.
3. Resign CJ
4. Stick with Moreland.
Maybe MY is that veteran backup. Sure don't want to see any more Cantu, Garko, Brown experiments. Or having to to listen to a Dec-Jul 2011 version of "trading for Mike Lowell".
5. Eagles @ AAC opening night.
1-4 -- Bleh, been talking Rangers too much lately. Going to the playoffs. Excited. Life is good.
5 -- Here are my top 5 concerts of all time. Would really love people to post their favorites here: http://mobilelawyer.blogspot.com/2010/08/favorite-concerts.html
Check 'um out and post your own. Thanks!!
1. Yes Lee should have been out of the game in the 4th inning no question. They have left lee in too long in most of his starts. The one that sticks in my mind was he second start as a ranger in fenway.It was a 2-1 game the rangers ahead tying run on third Youk at the plate. Youk had already had a hit & hti two other balls hard for outs. Feliz was ready to come in. But we all know what happen they left Lee in tie game rangers lose in extra innings. I here this crap they leave him in longer because he is the ace I have heard that crap so much I could barf. If he needs to come out of the game take him out it does not matter if he is the ace What do you do try to win games or leave a guy in because he is the ACE that is the question I have for everyone.
2. There are not many options on the market the way I see it Young has to play 3rd for a few more years. I think he has done a good job at third for not being a third basemen. It is not an easy thing to change to third base after years of playing SS & secondbase. It is much harder to play third than people think. Third is much harder to play than the middle infield is. I agree it would be nice to have a better defensive player at third but the way I see there hands are tied.
3. Lets wait to deal with CJ after the 2011 season see Scott Feldman.
4. Go with Moreland at first & bring Cantu back if you can or someone like Cantu as a saftey net at first base in case Moreland falls on his nose.
5. George Strait no doubt about it.
Before I get tore to shreads on the way I awnsered the CJ question. Don't get me wrong CJ has pitched much better this year than feldman ever di last year but lets give CJ one more year to grow as a starter befoe we unload alot of money on him. Also to clarify CJ is one of my favorite rangers to.
Lee needs time off. Washington needs to revisit his rules for Lee. Lee has a very fine line between being Lee and being hittable. Even though his pitch count may be eighties and nineties, he is pitching in tough situations and seems to tire. Finally, way we are using him has failed. See the record with him pitching. And he has pitched well enough that Wash needs to rethink how he's using him.
Hate that for MY. Move him to 1st. Mitch to right. Give Chris Davis a shot at third. Orrr, move MY to second and trade Kinsler, Mitch to 1st, CD to third (just a thought).
C.J. sign him if you can.
Unless you can find far better "veteran" help than we found this year (Cantu, Guzman, etc.), don't bother, I'll take my chances.
1. The way Cliff Lee is working evry five days is fine. Keep on keepin' on.
2. MY needs the respect the face of the franchise deserves. Keep him at 3B until he decids he can't do it.
3. See Scott Feldman -- too much money given too early. Give CJ another season to see if this is real or is he on a career year that will not be repeated.
4. Play Moreland at 1B until he proves he can't then find somebody else. Cantu would be a great backup for both MM and MY.
5. n/a
1. Almost obvious Cliff needs rest, even if he didn't want to be here he wants a big paycheck and every bad game he loses nearly a million.
2. I think MY would rather have a ring than stay at 3B and if the team would be better with him at 1st and someone else at 3rd I think he would go for it.
3. I'm a CeeJ homer so I say yes we should, 1st season as a starter and he has been just short of dominant and has gotten better as the season progressed.
4. Every player is different so I wouldn't do anything until Mid-May next year if he struggles
5. AFI at Warped Tour years back... great show
1. Not at all an issue. The guy has shown he can handle the pitching load, and you need to get all you can from him considering he may not be here next year. Worked pretty well for the Brewers with CC Sabthia a few years ago.
2. I'm sure Young and the brass will handle things differently is this comes up in the offseason. Young's issue with the move to third was how it was handled by Daniels. Not the move itself.
3. Pretty sure you can get CJ back here at a reasonable figure, and there is nothing out there to suggest he is a Scott Feldman clone. His stuff is MUCH better than Feldman's has ever been.
4. This team needs a solid option at 1B/3B to help give Young rest and step in if Moreland struggles. They should be able to go and get that option without trouble this year with new ownership in place.
5. Has to be Better Than Ezra everytime that I see them play. They bring so much energy and enthusiasm to the performance and are great at working the crowd.
1. I'd like to see him get an extra day or two of rest thrown in there sooner or later, certainly. And I do wonder why they decided to make him push past the 100 pitch barrier on a day he didn't have it and our bullpen was fairly fresh. But one bad start isn't enough to make me panic about the rest issue.
2. The Rangers didn't let Michael Young's ego stand in the way of improving the team in 2009, so I would certainly hope they wouldn't let it stand in the way the second time around. I don't think it'll happen this winter, given the dearth of good 3B options in the system and on the FA market (aside from Beltre, who I'd imagine the Red Sox will probably push hard to retain) but I don't think there's any way he can be allowed to live out his contract at the hot corner. He's just too freaking terrible there.
3. If they somehow manage to retain Lee then there's really little reason to tie up money in Wilson as well, but I seriously doubt they manage that. And assuming Lee is gone, CJ looks like he could have a shot at being one of the better SP's on the market in 2012 in terms of both age and ability, so you'd think it would be prudent to at least explore the possibility of extending him right now. If they could get him on a deal similar to what they worked out with Scott Feldman last winter, I'd love to see it.
4. I want Adam Dunn, whether it's as a DH or 1B option. What Moreland has done so far is seriously impressive, and I'd feel okay about rolling into 2011 with him at first base, but if you can land a player like Dunn, knowing he might cut into Moreland's playing time you do it. Now, going out and getting a veteran just because he's a veteran, that I'm a little more lukewarm towards.
Upon further reflection, I want to change my answer to #5 above. I saw Ann Murray in Las Vegas in the 80's at a casino. I love her music & I love her. I had a great table near the stage, and when she finished, she rewarded a few of the cheering fans giving her a standing ovation by tossing roses into the crowd. I caught one. It was better than getting a foul ball at a game!
YES, I THINK THAT LEE HAS BEEN OVER USED STARTING WITH THE VERY FIRST GAME RIGHT AFTER ACQUIRING HIM AND JUST THROWING HIM TO THE WOLVES. TREAT HIM LIKE THE REST OF THE ROTATION AND NOT A HIRED GUN!
RANGERS DEFINITELY NEED TO UPGRADE DEFENSIVELY AT 3RD BASE. LOOK AT MICHAEL AS A DH FOR SEVERAL YEARS TO COME.
I WOULD SAY SIGN LEE ONLY IF THE MONEY HE COMMANDS FITS THE RANGERS AND ALLOWS THEM TO UPGRADE IN A COUPLE MORE AREAS. WE SHOULD CERTAINLY SIGN C.J TO AN EXTENSION OF 4 YEARS OR SO.
I LIKE MORELAND AT FIRST AND I WOULD KEEP DAVIS ONE MORE YEAR TO SEE IF HE IS A LATE DEVELOPER LIKE CRUZ WAS.
ROY ORBISON IN CONCERT MANY YEARS AGO..... FABULOUS!!!
#5 Girl Talk ACL Fest 2009
also awesome: The Flaming Lips ACL Fest 2006 & Jimmy Eat World @ Emo's Austin July 2007
Caps still? Really? Its the third button up on the left of the keyboard.