Friday Morning Rangers Notes: The C.J. Wilson Quote And Catching
Joey Matschulat
A couple of quick morning items for the road:
● For all of his innumerable physical gifts, C.J. Wilson has gradually evolved into something resembling a lightning rod for criticism, attributable in part to the few, albeit glaring flaws in his game -- e.g. high walk totals and memorable struggles in medium- and high-leverage game situations -- and also in part to his controversial nature, which largely derives from some of his past remarks to the media and past actions on the mound. In a completely fair and objective world, we would only judge players based on their on the-field results and dismiss everything else as irrelevant, but that's obviously not the world that we live in; thus, a thoroughly polarizing figure is born.
And candidly, I think people do make a genuine effort to filter out as much of the extraneous nonsense as possible and keep the focus solely on baseball, but then he issues remarks such as this one -- via the Fort Worth Star-Telegram's Jennifer Floyd Engel -- and the uproar begins anew: "It's no secret I don't think I should be limited to the set-up role. I have too many weapons. Here is the reality. It is real simple. There are not very many guys that have the stuff that I do that would be willing to sign here if they were free agents. There is no experienced pitcher that has my stuff that would sign here, historically."
Now, it's impossible to not appreciate Wilson's zeal and passion for the game and competitive intensity at some fundamental level, and it's certainly true that there is a legitimate case to be made for Wilson locking down the No. 5 spot in the starting rotation (one which David Brown masterfully composed back on November 16th, and one which team president Nolan Ryan also appears to readily support), but ... seriously? Did I actually read what I think I just read?
Is the intent behind those last two sentences to throw the organization under the bus, in spite of the strides that are actively being made as far as overhauling the Rangers' image within the game and becoming an attractive destination for free agent pitchers -- a destination which, by the way, primo free agent right-hander Rich Harden selected barely two months ago? Heck, is there any point to them at all? I'm genuinely curious. Help me out here. I don't begrudge Wilson his choice of words, but when people overtly wonder why he's censured for being a clubhouse distraction, for being antagonistic, for being a bad teammate ... well, this is the sort of thing that the condemnation stems from.
● Two things regarding the "wide-open" catching competition, which appears to have assumed that quality in part because of Jarrod Saltalamacchia's injury-induced early exit from the Dominican Winter League (which apparently frustrated Rangers management, as did his arrival at the ballclub's January minicamp with an additional 10 pounds on his "sluggish" frame): first, as a means of attempting to explain Saltalamacchia's weak offense to this point in his major league career, Lone Star Ball's Adam Morris astutely posits that, in general, catchers develop later offensively than other position players. If true, it would naturally follow that catchers also peak later, as well.
Conventional wisdom? Perhaps. Empirically supportable? Not according to this May 2000 study into the theory by Keith Woolner of Baseball Prospectus, who concluded thusly: "Catchers do not improve or maintain their rates of production into their late-20s or early-30s. There's only the slightest tendency for catchers to have their peak season at ages 30 and 31 more often than other position players. Overall, I don't view the evidence as a strong trend for a later offensive peak." Granted, more recent data might well yield slightly different results, but it would seem that there's scant statistical evidence to support the prevailing theory that catchers peak later.
This leads into a second issue that I wanted to raise, one which drills down to the very core of the Saltalamacchia dilemma: given that there is still considerable variability in catcher development, is the problem really that he just hasn't reached his peak yet and that the Rangers are mistaken in their seeming impatience, or is this a case of the John Sickels-labeled "young catcher stagnation syndrome" wreaking havoc, or have the injuries and his bizarre developmental curve simply conspired to decimate his impact potential? We'd all like to pick door No. 1, but I think you can see the logic underlying all three ideas, and it may be that pessimism is warranted more so than optimism at this point.
Reader Comments (32)
CJ is going to say CJ (dumb) things. I don't think it should be held against him.
What should be held against him is the pitiful way he sometimes pitches under no pressure at all, which really makes me wonder what the Rangers are thinking.
Perhaps CJ went to Ryan or Daniels in the off-season and "demanded" the closer's role or a starter's role and they just decided to let him try it. I really do not understand the reasoning behind starting him, despite what Ryan says.
Coming soon: Holland or Harrison gets the 5th spot. CJ goes back to the pen and all will be right with the world.
I guess we are going to see a new CJ, the one with all the Stuff he is talking about.... wonder why we have not seen him before?
I know there seems to be two of them,,,, it always scared me when he came into a game, wondering which one was there..... the good, the bad, oh, why not.. the ugly
CJ is the pitching version of Gerald Laird. I wish he could just keep his mouth shut and pitch. I would be happy if all the other pitchers make CJ expendable. There WILL be some trades before spring training is over. Maybe he wants to be traded.
Frankly, what he's saying is true. The question is, why does he feel the need to say it? The guy flat out oozes talent but seems so insecure he can't appreciate where he is. I'm a fan but he makes it difficult at times.
"have the injuries and his bizarre developmental curve simply conspired to decimate his impact potential?" YEP.
At this point I suspect that most other Ranger players just roll their eyes at remarks like this.
IMHO, catchers don't peak later than other hitters, they just peak lower. They nearly always disappoint in their offensive projections. I mentally take a catcher's projection and subtract 10-15% of the OPS I think that player is capable of at a less taxing position.
Baseball is a team sport. Self-sacrifice, working together for a common goal, these are qualities that are desired and need to be cultivated (because they really don't occur naturally). C.J. Wilson isn't alone in thinking about himself before the team -- many in sports, and, alas, in our culture, think and act likewise. Michael Young's initial reaction to a move to third base last year was pride-focused, not team-focused. But it was gratifying that he soon came around to accepting the situation as the best thing for the team (which it was). Let's hope this young pitcher can do the same by simply doing his best and being happy to help the team in whatever role it needs him.
The sight of CJ standing on the mound after blowing a 3 or 4 run lead is still fresh in my mind. Just shut up and pitch, space cadet.
Not much comfort in knowing that Salty and Teagarden will develope the skill of putting bat on ball later in their careers.
Grade A a-hole... he's such a tool and I would have to think that in this clubhouse filled with what's seemingly down to earth guys, he sticks out like a sore thumb. To put it in perspective, this would be akin to Kins saying he's the best hitter and most talented infielder on this team... which at times can be true, just like it is with CJ.
I would love to be a fly on the wall when MY/Hammy and crew pulls him over to the side to "talk"... blanket party anyone?
Salty (Dropping Winter Ball) and CJ (His Mouth) seem to have very high opinions o their abilities that have not been supported on the field.
Fortunately the Rangers have enough pitchers that CJ can readily take his unlimited talents (in his mind) elsewhere with no effect on th erangers. Hopefully they can even get a sandwich pick for him.
However, catcher has turned from being a strength to a weakness. Strange, but such is the nature of baseball player evelopment - a highly uncertain art. Hopefully Salty will suddenly improve in plate discipline, defense, and durabilty. That seems like a lot to ask doesn't it. My guess - the Rangers will end up trading for of all things a proven catcher. Go figure. At least they have the chips to tade.
Wait! Brilliant idea! Trade CJ for a catcher!
Something about two birds; one stone..................
Ah CJ......Guess he can’t help himself. Now I think he was trying to say no pitcher with his stuff would sign here to be a set-up man but, either way, he should probably stop talking.
CJ has free agency on the brain. He knows this is last chance to become more than a set up guy before he enters free agency. If he doesn't start or close this year he will be passed by Holland, Perez, Harrison, Scheppers, and Feliz. When that happens his free agent contract will be several million dollars less than a starter or closer's salary.
CJ is just an odd guy who doesn't have a filter on his thoughts. He's right: there aren't any pitchers with arsenals that equal his who would come here as free agents unless they're trying to overcome and injury history (Harden), previous mlb failures (Lewis), or history of behavior problems (Padilla). Millwood didn't really have any of those issues, but he also doesn't really have good stuff. There's a chance that CJ could be our best starter if given a chance. He faired incredibly well last year when he had extra rest. Pretty much all of his failures were with 0-1 days of rest. He could also prove that he starts getting shelled the second time through the lineup. There's nothing more we can do other than see how he looks in spring training. My guess is that he ends up back in the bullpen. Who knows, he could end up as trade bait, but I would guess that any moves will happen closer to the trade deadline (outside of perhaps trading Arias to provide some 40-man roster relief).
If nothing else, maybe stretching out CJ as a starter will help him actually get batters out when he pitches back to back outings from the bullpen.
As far as Salty is concerned, I'm still not going to worry. Turning only 25 in May, he's about to enter what should be his career peak. While he doesn't have much time to improve, he could still have a breakout year. It was just a shame that he was rushed by the Braves the way he was. They developed him like he was Matt Wieters or Joe Mauer. He's not. But he should be as good or better than Navarro, Laird, or any Molina brother. Injuries and a mismanaged minor league career have mangled his early career development, but he's still got a chance to get past that. Teagarden on the other hand doesn't have much time left to get better. I think he'll top out as a plus defender who's lucky if he hits above the Mendoza line; to me that makes him a decent backup option.
"There is no experienced pitcher that has my stuff that would sign here, historically."
Does CJ think he is a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan was? Don't think so.
idk, i like CJ. i think he is a lightning rod for the fans, media and likely teammates. there's the bad (saying things that many take as dumb to say) and there's the good (being a competitor and rallying point, ie: Wolfpack).
CJ is amped up for competition and i think is feeding the media out loud to pump himself up for the challenge. not everyone is the quiet, self-starter like a MY or Nolan Ryan.
i hope he keeps yapping b/c he certainly isnt a detriment to the team like so many other buttheads (Milton, etc.). only good can come from this...he becomes a legit starter w/ a purpose or he sees that he's not there yet and will bust his a** to keep getting better.
i got sick of seeing Frankie's scared, lost, befuddled looks last year. there's not much fight in that guy. in CJ, it's not a problem in the least.
I don't really see the uproar. This is actually very nuanced from the perspective of a typical CJ comment. He qualifies his assertion with "historically". So, his beef is that he should have a prominent role, and I think we're overparsing the phrase here.
Besides, he's right. How many TORPs have not come here over the past 5-10 years? A lot. Rangers tried to get Randy Johnson, Zito (no longer a TORP of course) out of the FA market; they tried to trade for Santana, Halladay. So...
CJ said the Rangers HISTORICALLY haven't been able to attract pitchers with his level of talent. I see nothing controversial with a statement of fact like that.
What is controversial is his thought that he should be the closer rather than Frankie.
I said this all last year that you can't account empirically for the negative effect that CJ and his egotistical me first attitude has on the rest of the team...There is more to baseball and team sports than numbers...something that many people on this site fail to realize...I have been saying for years to get rid of CJ...He is selfish and full of himself and wants to act like its someone elses fault when he walks three and gives up a dying quail for a hit...make the other three guys get a hit and the one fisted liner the falls in would be inconsequential...I have witnessed and watched CJ and his selfish attitude from the time he was in Frisco...and I can tell you this guys is a loser...If he really had all this great stuff and was so capable of dominating this league then he wouldn't have to tell everyone...they would already be aware of it...Can't wait till he is gone...I would rather lose with lesser talent than underachieve with superior talent...the later is CJ's MO...There is a fine line between Ignorance and Arrogance and it appears our boy CJ has crossed way over that line AGAIN
Does anyone know of a blog, etc... that will contain daily updates on spring trng? I know DMN will blog about it... but i'm hoping the guys here at BBTIA do it as well.
Going back 10+ years ago, DMN would carry an article every day listing things similiar to Cowboys camp; Pitcher of the day, hitter of the day, etc... but they no longer do it.
Since CJ's draft day in 2001, the Rangers have signed two "big name" pitcher's, Millwood and Park. Millwood might be a horse, but his stuff isn't nearly what CJ has to offer. Chan Ho had decent stuff at one point and posted some nice numbers while he was in LA (averaging 213 IP in his five full time seasons as a starter there). Obviously the Park signing was a flop, but we can safely say that the Rangers have made only one signing of a pitcher with TORP stuff (who didn't have red flags like Harden) since CJ has been in the organization. He didn't say specifically that's what he meant by "historically," but it's a safe bet that was his intention. We will see how he looks in spring training. I still think he belongs in the bullpen, but my mind is open to the idea of him starting. I'd be alright with Feliz taking his role in the pen and Holland spending some time down in OKC until injury or inneffectiveness rears its ugly head. What really has me intrigued is Harrison's health and apparent weight loss.
CJ is annoying, but very talented. Eventually, the time will come to get value in a trade or recieve comp picks for him in Free Agency. As long as he doesn't get a long term deal here, you just ignore the crap coming out of his mouth.
I strongly believe in the straight platoon option at Catcher this year. Here are the benefits I see:
1) The obvious potential production benefit of a R/L platoon.
2) Isolating Salty against RHP, and increasing his number of nights off, gives him the best chance to get his head right, find a groove, and have a breakout year. Hopefully, he hits well enough to be catching full-time come playoffs.
3) If Salty can't hit isolated on RHP, having Teagarden getting platoon ABs and hitting well may give you the confidence to make the switch.
4) If neither Catcher is hitting well in a favorable platoon situation, but the team is playing well and in contention, you'll know you need to fill the Catcher position in time to maybe make a splashy pre-deadline deal for a Catcher (like the Red Sox did last year). Perhaps Scheppers is tearing up AAA by then, and you deal CJ + Hurley or Main for a big Catcher and give Scheppers the 8th inning.
Pabloesque ESPN dallas will work for you
I agree with John, I get extremely nervous when CJ comes in , because he can blow a 3-4 run lead in a heart beat. With all that talent his best curve is his mouth.
In other news Josh Hamilton predicted the Rangers will win 96 games this year.
Last year he said 90 and was wrong by 3 win many pundits were saying 79 to 81 wins.
Let's see how close Josh is this year!
Is this a joke? I'm 25 and almost had a heart attack every time CJ took the mound. I was told recently by a doctor that my blood pressure was too high from the time Pitchers and Catchers report until November, particularly when CJ was pitching. He advised me to lay down with a moist cloth on my head during the 7th-8th innings of Ranger games. Let's let CJ be what he is... an above average setup man.... if he cracks the starting rotation I'll jump over the grand canyon on a 10-speed naked...... and Juan Dominguez will be the Rangers no 1 starter...
"Salty (Dropping Winter Ball) and CJ (His Mouth) seem to have very high opinions o their abilities that have not been supported on the field."
Here's the thing about Saltalamacchia and his early exit from the DWL: we're still not clear on whether management is simply frustrated that he incurred a setback, or if the frustration stems from perceived laziness and/or disinterest in playing winter ball. If it's the latter, well, that strikes me as irrational -- recall that Saltalamacchia's surgeon was FLOORED that he resumed baseball activities as soon as he did after surgery.
There might well be some key pieces of information missing here, but based on what we know, he had no business playing as early as he did. The assumption here is that management is pissed that he came back TOO early, in which case this isn't remotely analogous to the Kevin Mench and Gerald Laird winter ball fiascos of years past, when Texas took punitive measures against them in the form of demotions and decreased playing time.
"Does anyone know of a blog, etc... that will contain daily updates on spring trng? I know DMN will blog about it... but i'm hoping the guys here at BBTIA do it as well.
Going back 10+ years ago, DMN would carry an article every day listing things similiar to Cowboys camp; Pitcher of the day, hitter of the day, etc... but they no longer do it."
Think the papers are doing something like that this year again. As for our content plan, we're tentatively expecting Jason Parks to roll out some spring training interviews next month (with some possible contributions from Trip Somers, as well), David will presumably continue to kick ass, and I'll keep trying to produce thought-provoking stuff beyond the mere scope of "Player X says that he's in the best shape of his life"-type stuff. I will say this: we have no interest in being merely average.
When CJ comes in I make the "sign of the cross" and hope for the best!! The guy talks alot but only has moments of brillance. He is a young man with a lot of potential but doesn't put it out there on a consistent basis........only flashes of brillance!
Sure, CJ has talent. Sure, he is a hard throwing lefty, who are hard to come by. But seriously, he just needs to keep his mouth shut, and do his job, whatever that role is. I, for one, hope he stays in the bullpen. My nick name for him is 'Full Pack", cause that's how many I smoke when he comes in the game. If he started, I'd go through a whole carton, and it's too expensive anymore to have to buy a carton every fifth day because of CJ.
Im sick of CJ, I defend this guy all the time to my friends and then he turns around makes pompous qoutes. If you want to be on our team be a good team mate quit being a pompous ass. If I was Jon Daniels I would trade his ass just for the clubhouse effect from what i have read the other players dont really care for this guy. Ship him out his value is high get what you can and wash your hands of him, he obviously doesnt think to highly of the Rangers anyway. Im sick of you CJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah - I just defended CJ about 10 days ago on this site. He is as good as he says he is - some of the time. But he has always been madly inconsistent. He also seems to have a chip on his shoulder because of fan backlash, but then he says stuff like this that stokes the fire of fan disgust towards him - for a guy so "smart" he doesn't seem to have a clue about what one should or should not say to the media, regardless of what one thinks.
My advice to CJ: Shut the mouth and let your pitching do the talking for you. If you are so great, you'll win a rotation shot. If you have a great season as a starter, people will give you all the accolades you feel you deserve, without you having to say anything. All you are doing is setting yourself up for mockery, as the first time you blow a game or give up a 3 run homer, people are going to point their fingers at you and laugh.
I would also suggest that if Kiker can do what CJ has done (hold down the 8th against lefties and a few righties) this Spring Training - trade CJ somewhere very cold and dismal... they should be able to get a couple of top prospects for him. I never thought I'd say that - but you don't want him poisoning the well with all these young kids around.
I don't think it's as bad as all that. In fact, I think it's part good-- ie his drive. Let his actions catch up with his words. Ben Rogers has some humbler quotes from him, linked at LSB.
Re Catching, I'm glad Barajas is gone. I want us to build for the present AND future. That said, I hope we go after AZ's John Hester. And I hope we play Tea vs lefties, which he has crushed.