What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
What would it have taken to get Justin Upton again? Whatever it was, and with the way our offense is going, we probably should have given the D-Backs what they were asking for (excluding Profar, but I don't remember hearing his name in the deal).
I don't think either side ever revealed which player Texas was unwilling to part with. However, I generally agree with you. I think most believed the offense would struggle, but I didn't anticipate that 2/3 of the lineup would have problems to the degree they are. The whole middle of the order, sans Berkman, look like they just started spring training.
@Jeff: It was either Profar or Elvis that Texas wouldn't part with.
Texas offered a more than fair compensation for the D-Backs. They offered Olt, a choice between Buckel and Perez, Leury Garcia, and another prospect.
Why give up Profar before you know Elvis plans on extending?
Also, we cannot assume Justin would have the same start in Texas. There are too many variables at play.
Speaking of Leury Garcia, he's off to a good start.
Garcia looks very savvy. I wouldn't peg him as a rookie were I not familiar with him.
I fear the Upton debacle will haunt the Rangers for a long time.
Though as bad as the Upton deal turned out for Texas, it was immensely worse for Towers and ARZ. Congrats to ATL and good luck to Upton.
He's not on our division. How on earth would it haunt us?
Revsader, we went into the offseason with a weak outfield and a strong infield with lots of infield talent in the minors. Upton was the object of a fire sale and the Rangers were very close to getting Upton. My take at the time was Towers wanted Andrus in the package and the FO declined to go that far. The haunting is not what Upton will do to us, but what he could have done for us.
I know it is meaningless to extrapolate the current baseball outcomes, but Garcia sure looks good (better than any of the bushel of SSs ARZ obtained this off season) and Upton would easily be the best OF on the club.
I don't disagree that Upton would be the best OF on the club, but that's not saying much right now. Murphy and Cruz have barely been getting the job done for years. Now it's nowhere close to enough. It might still pan out and they could end up with a nice OF piece by being patient. I sure hope they do. I for one am glad that Elvis extended, and did not get traded.
I don't know that we'll ever know for certain what Texas offered, or whether or not discussions got beyond infancy stages. Upton would certainly add pop to this lineup, but I think the Rangers are invested in building from within and don't want to deviate from that plan. Andrus will never put up the numbers you'll see from Upton, but his value to the team is his defense and the light atmosphere he brings to the clubhouse. Upton isn't known for either one of those things.
Y A W W W N N N
Rev writes: Texas offered a more than fair compensation for the D-Backs. They offered Olt, a choice between Buckel and Perez, Leury Garcia, and another prospect.
I don't agree with the idea that the supposed Olt, Buckel/Perez/Grimm, Garcia trade was "more than fair". It wasn't. Not even close.
We could get into how great Justin Upton is (which is the reason some of us weren't opposed to an Elvis-Upton swap), but his production speaks for itself. Let's instead look at "fair value," and why Mike Olt, a middle-of-the-rotation pitcher and a utility infielder don't come close to measuring up to the MVP-caliber Justin Upton.
Point A-Z: The Diamondbacks don't give a shit about pitchers or a 3rd baseman. They already have pitching prospects with substantially more ceiling than any of the Perez/Buckel/Grimm troika. They already have a 3rd baseman in waiting (Matt Davidson).
They wanted a shortstop, and because Towers for some reason expected Arizona to compete in 2013, a Major League-ready shortstop. That eliminates virtually every player in the organization outside of Jurickson Profar and Elvis Andrus.
If you believe Leury Garcia is that guy, then I'm sorry that you are mistaken. He's a speedy runner who plays good defense. He doesn't draw a ton of walks, and he won't provide any power. Those guys are valuable. On the bench.
It all comes down to your philosophy. I would have given 2 years of Elvis Andrus for 3 years of Justin Upton any day of the week. The Rangers didn't agree, and now we have two shortstops under contract for 6 years and beyond. I think we could have avoided this Andrus/Kinsler/Profar dilemma if we'd just executed the damn trade. But we'll just have to see how it all plays out.
Eric, take yours meds son.
I'm SO GLAD we have another Upton thread. I was really wondering what I was going to do if I had to go a whole week without a dose of Upton talk.
You all are going to make me lose my mind...
UPTON HERE, UPTON HERE.
"I think we could have avoided this Andrus/Kinsler/Profar dilemma if we'd just executed the damn trade."
Was only a dilemma in your mind, not everyone's ...and your loss of that bet promised you'd sit out for a month and keep your opinions to yourself when the season began. It's now April 14, and long past time for that month to begin if you're a man of your word.
Oh well, they will just have to wait and settle for MIKE STANTON(dont like the GianCarlo)
I bow to you.
Holy shit, David, I totally forgot about that! You are right.
It's currently 12:02 am in California on Monday, 15 April 2013. As per the bet, I will not be eligible to return until May 15, 2013, at the same time.
Eric, gotcha. See you here in mid-May. :-) Enjoy the break.
@ David +1
I guess it was possible to extend the Boras client--and smart in my mind.
Now we can trade Profar for an ace or a middle of the order bat--while his trade value is ridiculously high.
We are not going to trade Profar for an ace. At least, not alone. Also, please find me this ostensible ace whose team will trade him for a future star SS and other guys. All the aces I know are on teams that expect to contend, however unrealistically that might be.
We are in talks with Oswalt. Just hang in there.
cool story bro
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