What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
The Dodgers' newest marquee man Zack Greinke may not be quite the best pitcher in baseball (he isn't, as he readily admits). But he is almost surely the most honest person in the game.
Or anywhere else, for that matter.
Doesn't have it in him to lie. Just can't do it.
He tells you flat out his free agency was about the money, first and foremost. Others claim it isn't, but they're fibbing. Greinke is incapable.
"If I lie I forget what I said the first time. I won't remember the lie. I don't know how people do it," Greinke said.
Good for Greinke.
Clubhouses are no different from other workplaces, where BS often reigns. Greinke's locker is a BS-free zone. No spin there. That's saved for his pitches.
Greinke, who got a $147-million, six-year Dodgers deal, is "well spoken, insightful, unfiltered," general manager Ned Colletti said.
Exactly right. Especially the unfiltered part.
Greinke reads everything, hears everything and seemingly knows everything. He wants the record straight, and he works at keeping it that way.
And money in free agency, to him, was no small thing.
"It's obviously the No. 1 thing," Greinke said. "I could play for the worst team if they paid the most. ... If the last-place team offers $200 million and the first-place team offers $10, I'm going to go for the $200-million no matter what team it was." (Greinke did make clear that while money was the No. 1 thing, it wasn't the only thing, so he wasn't going to go somewhere he thought was worse for a million or two more.)
Greinke could have tried being a bit less honest because the last two teams in the bidding --the Dodgers and Rangers -- made final offers that were said by two different people in the know to have been either "similar" or "very close." (That was one topic Greinke wouldn't touch, presumably out of fairness to the losing final bidder, saying only of his final call that "it was a tough decision.")
Greinke could easily have mentioned all the other things he liked about the Dodgers, and suggested that those other things were the main reasons he went to LA, or at least the deciding factors or tiebreakers He did cite several great things about the Dodgers, from the history, to their chances to win in the near term, to the experience of the coaching staff, to their league (what's not to like, right?). But he didn't pretend they were the main reasons he went to L.A.
And good for him.
Because it was soon learned from other sources that Greinke gave the Rangers a chance to win his services, presenting them with an offer to become a Texas Ranger if they met it. (That was another rare subject Greinke didn't want to touch.)
It isn't known what Greinke's offer to the Rangers was but can be presumed to be higher than the deal he ultimately made, considering he admitted money was the first factor. In any case, ultimately the Rangers decided not to meet his price but rather countered it.
In the end the two teams were in a near-dead heat on the main terms of the offers, according to those two sources, or at least "very close." Taxes would be a bit less with the Rangers, but Greinke's primary residence was to remain Winter Park, Fla., so that discrepancy wasn't a much as some might have speculated.
In the end, the real differences may have been that the Rangers didn't offer the three-year opt-out clause (which is ultimately about the money), and they couldn't offer the National League, which Greinke much prefers.
"It's boring watching American League games to me," Greinke said. "With the Angels we had [Mike] Trout, [Albert] Pujols, [Mark] Trumbo, [Kendrys] Morales and [Torii] Hunter, but it wasn't as much fun as watching Milwaukee's team. There's much more strategy. I don't know anyone who likes the American League games better. Maybe some fans do. But if you're not an actual DH, you probably prefer the National League."
One thing that didn't play into it, as it turned out, was the ability to hit with the Dodgers. He is known to enjoy hitting but found that as a Brewer it wasn't quite as vital.
"Once I went to Milwaukee, it wasn't as great," Greinke said. "I found my goal wasn't to pitch a good game and get a couple hits, it was to pitch a good game."
The one negative to going to LA is that it's a long trip for his folks back in the Orlando area. Other than that, not a thing.
Greinke, who went 15-5 with a 3.48 ERA in 2012 between Milwaukee and Los Angeles/Anaheim, had nice meetings with both teams. He met in Orlando with Rangers GM Jon Daniels plus pitching coach Mike Maddux and executives A.J. Preller and Don Welke. He met in L.A. with Dodgers president Stan Kasten, Colletti and manager Don Mattingly.
The Dodgers were surprised he showed only with an open mind (and not even agent Casey Close). But Greinke said he found he did all the talking at the Rangers meeting and didn't want to waste agent Casey Close's time again. (Somehow, I think Close would have forgiven him.)
Could be Greinke was enjoying the process too much to share it. He didn't take the Nationals' $100-million offer a few years back that would have come with a trade there partly because he didn't think Washington was ready to win. While he has had a pang of regret since the Nationals became a power, he also turned it down because he was looking forward to the free-agent process.
"I wanted to see it. If it was going to be only one year for $1 million, I wanted to see for myself," he said.
Greinke was like a kid with a thousand questions for everyone at the two key meetings. At the Rangers meeting, he was said to have told them Adrian Beltre was maybe his favorite player. He also loved the Rangers' plan, their philosophy and their young core.
The Dodgers meeting was scheduled an hour and half and took 3½ hours.
He wanted to know all about the direction of the team. He could have kept going for hours. Finally, one or more of the L.A. people had to go to their next meeting.
He loves the history of the Dodgers. But he was intrigued by the chance to help the Rangers win their first title after two World Series appearances.
"I liked both organizations," said Greinke in a comment that might sound like puffery coming from someone else. Not him, though.
He notes when he hears bs from another player, and he disapproves.
Good for him.
"The worst comment in the world has got to be when a guy who's getting $100 million says he wants to 'take care of my family,' " Greinke said. Of course, nobody needs $100 million, or even half that, to keep their family going.
I agreed, but added that I always found more absurd the one where a very rich player says he was agreeing to extend an already rich deal by saying he wanted "security." Someone who has already banked tens of millions is already secure, unless he's such a numbskull to have spent it all already.
You'll never hear anything like that from Greinke, who only tries to deceive when on the mound.
In other words, "Grienke is a flake"'.
^^^^^Yes Clark agree. I think oasis lined that out well & being very obvious about it.
PT, you're full of crap. They balked at giving greinke an opt out clause after 3 years, as they should've.
Oasis: Sometimes 'less is more'.
Great job oasis! NOT... we're not presently reading much in here, so I think most that tip toe thru here, spend time elsewhere on the web, soaking up briefs as your wasted input.
DUH! Nothing original. Yes, less is more.
Romro, nobody mentioned the "out clause" here did they? Yet, most in here think/know it was the deciding factor in the Grienke NON-sign. TheRangers basically insulted Grienke, becausethey considered him a major flake(no, he's just a nerd wanting money). Daniels didn't see thecorporate or team fit, for the money spent. Probably realized that Grienke was smarter than him. Sorry, bad move. Daniels ego circumvented another smart move and actually "making the team better".
What's wrong with a player actually interested in the organizations history, inner-workings, focus & future?This Z. Grienke NON-Deal had nothing to do with the money... from either side.
...or I should say, the LOSS of Grienke, had nothing to do with the money asked for or offered.Now Grienke is toe-tapping around the reality of it was only money, when he's trying to save facein the fact he was totally surprised that Texas did not sign him for similar numbers as LAD. He wanted to be a Ranger. What a coup to finally land a TORP in Texas. No, not for Jon Daniels.
The whole truth will eventually surface. Daniels has reached his apex. His social ineptness withother GM's are not new school strengths. He can't get a deal done when the team is in need ofa life preserver. His approach or modus is not making the team better. I wouldn't even considerJon Daniels the architect of the great Ranger farm system. You don't need a magnifying glass tofind the real leaders and shakers in the Ranger Organization. It isn't Jon Daniels. Sorry, dead weight.
^^^^There was so much ridiculousness inferred in those statements that you couldn't possibly know. According to John Heyman it was the opt out clauses that Texas balked at.
John Heyman is not an insider. He creates stories with former GM advise, to make a pay check.He does not live in DFW or go to church, have neighbors or community social rubbing elbows in DFW. If you & others want to believe the East Coast Press about what goes on within your own back yard, then stand in line with all the other lemmings. More knowledge is shared over the fence, during wash day, than what reaches your eyes & ears on the web. Sorry, you're not in the right community of wisdom,nor want to listen to truths & realities.
@OBI - I don't think JD wanted anything to do with Dickey. Historically, or at least the last 20 years, this park has not been kind to knuckleballers. Also, Dickey seems really arrogant. I don't remember him that way when he was fighting for a roster spot... maybe the Cy Young went to his head.
I am going to agree with those that say we should have paid the price for Greinke. He would have rounded off a devastating 1-2 punch with Darvish and solved a long standing problem of not having a legit ACE. I think he could have really helped Darvish too from a mentor standpoint and in providing leadership to a very young rotation... but whatever. What's done is done and we have to move on.
I would have also liked Upton, and if I were JD, I would have found a way to make it happen without giving up Elvis or Profar. Rarely do you see a 24 yr border-line superstar avialable via trade... so I wished JD would have figured out a good package that didn't include Elvis or Profar... but maybe Towers had tunnel vision and refused to even discuss a trade without one of those two involved.
I think JD has pushed all the right buttons over the last 3 or 4 years and we have to trust his judgement. Maybe he saw Greinke, Upton, etc... as head cases and didn't really want them... who knows!
I will admit I'm VERY dissapointed with this off-season but we have to trust JD...we have no other choice. I have a very bad feeling Berkman is going to be Oswalt part 2 and end up providing little production. There's no question the guy can hit but he's had alot of injury issues in the last 3 or 4 years and I feel we overpaid for him. I think AJ was a good buy but if this team goes on a 5 or 6 game losing streak and the blame game kicks off, he could be a catastrophic disaster in the clubhouse (so could Berkman)... and God help us if he feels Wash did him wrong. We don't have a clubhouse leader right now. David Murphy is probably the 1 guy everyone on the team respects.... but how much clout does he carry being a 4th OFer, ya know? I guess Adrian Beltre could step up and be the leader...
Pablo~Very good points.Texas wanted Dickey. They wanted Arnaud too. Simple case of "loving ones inventory too much". Dayton Moore might have gotten flack, as did Kevin Towers, but they pull the nads string in need.
All I have to say is what and see.
Every superstar starts out as a unproven player, and good portion of super stars even struggled early in their careers before hitting their strides. I JD help guide the Rangers to 2 World Series with one year they were bankrupt I think he has earned a little bit of trust and non stop second guessing. I am excited to see what Leonys Martin, Martin Perez, Jurikson Profar and Mike Olt turn into.
Signing free agents does not guarantee you'll win a World Series. Just ask the Yankees or Boston about that. And if you remember last year the Rangers #1 bullpen pitcher was Robby Ross, a unheralded player who very few even know of.
^^^^^AaronHow many years have you followed or the Rangers?
I started watching the Rangers in 1989 after I moved from Indiana to Keller. I have been a die hard rangers fan since.
One of the biggest reasons I do not want them to throw big contracts at other teams players is because that A-Rod contract killed the team for many many many years.
Do not kid yourself, the Rangers right now are starting to have to transition into younger players and replace what has been mainstay players for years for us. Does it suck to have to start over, yeah in a sense but there is a little excitement in not know what could be. Who would have ever guessed Mike Trout would have done what he has, but he did.
Rangers farm system has a lot of top tier pieces and I am ready to see if any of them pan out like some have for us already (Elvis, Ian, Feliz, Harrison, Ross, Cruz).
It killed them because they had nothing to build around ARod. They've got a nice core now, with the addition of a MOTOB & a TORP, this team would be a very strong World Series contender, but...that taking chances & decisions to "make the team better", as Daniels states. Hamilton? No thanks.We've dropped in stature for 2013, without a real solid conviction of focus.
Losing Josh is a addition by subtraction. How can you overpay to keep a player who lacks focus and had a trend of quitting on a team. Josh went from being the best CF in the game to being replaced by Gentry at CF late in games. Josh went from hitting the ball to oppo field and hitting for a high average with mid 20 low 30s in hrs to swinging at anything no matter how bad of pitch and trying to pull every ball. Josh needed to go. Mike Young could still be a good contributor but not at 500-600 at bats like Wash was going to give him.
Grienke was a very good #2 pitcher but he is no where near David Price, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw, Felix Hernandez, Jered Weaver level. You can not give a #2 pitcher 160 million and on top of that give him a out clause which he wanted. I would have taken James Shields over Grienke any day.
I would like to point out that having a powerful offense does not mean you will win the World Series. Look at San Fran, their low offensive output with great defense and top flight pitching has won 2 of the last 3 World Series.
In Nolan and JD I'll trust.
It figures that Aaron is from Indiana.
Actually now I live in Washington State, but I am still a die hard Rangers fan through and through. I make it to about 4-8 Ranger games a year when they play the M's. You can always tell I am in the stands because I have one of the loudest "Let's go Rangers Let's go!" in the stadium. LOL
Aaron, I have to disagree with you that Josh Hamilton is an "addition by subtraction." Would I have wanted to pay him $125 million? Hell no. But regardless, he's still worth a solid 4.0 wins the next two years. We are replacing that with Leonys Martin and Craig Gentry. There is a lot that needs to be proven.
Also, Zack Greinke is, according to the metrics, on the same level as David Price and Yu Darvish -- 5.1 fWAR. There's a good chance he stays especially elite pitching half his games in Los Angeles. I see him as a 5.0-6.0 FIP-win pitcher over the next few years, which, according to FanGraphs, would justify all the money he's making.
Zack might have a good chance to have a 4+ Fwar in LA. But there was little chance he would have it here in a hitters park.
When I say "addition by subtraction" I am talking about everything not just his bat. His defense has turned into crap, his base running has declined, the media circus that swirls around him are all things I am glad to see gone. Do you remember hearing about what Mike Adams said of Josh Hamilton? Reliever Mike Adams said this week (11/7/12) he wasn't sure which Josh Hamilton was going to show up at the ballpark each day and isn't sure whether re-signing the free agent outfielder is in the best interest of the Texas Rangers. How do you think shows on the rookies coming in, setting terrible example for how a player should behave. I remember in the offseason before Joish signed the Ben and Skin guys talked about how the Ranger players were rolling their eyes at him over his nonstop drama and things he would do/say.
Team Chemistry matters a lot.
@Aaron - I have to agree with Eric on this one... Hamilton was NOT addition by subtraction... and I don't understand why people say he quit last year. He quit the last 2 weeks of the season but overall, he had a very good season, at least numbers wise.My feeling is he was either playing hurt but didn't want to go on the DL because it might affect his new contract... or he was pissed at the Rangers FO and was trying to prove a point. In either case it was a selfish move that hurt his team... but let's not forget the times he carried this team on his back. The guy is one of the very best in baseballl and we ARE going to miss him. IMO, the only viable replacement would be Giancarlo Stanton... and if I were JD I would not hesitate for 1 second to include Profar in a trade for him.
@Pablo He quit 3 times.
The first time was when he took himself out of the Angels game saying he had a a vision problem and missed a crucial 5 game span where they could not find anything wrong with him. If you remember the Rangers said he had blurry vision but Josh came back and said that was not the case when they found out he was over doing it on Caffeine.
He quit on that routine fly ball that bounced off his glove. He put his head down and continued to jog forward then slowly turned around to JOG for the ball.
Here a link to the video if you need to JOG your memory. http://www.totalprosports.com/2012/10/04/josh-hamilton-error-hands-the-al-west-crown-to-the-oakland-athletics-video/
Then you have the 1 game playoff where he went 0-4 on a total of 8 pitches. EIGHT pitches. This was a guy who hit .359 two years prior and he swinging at trash. He had a great first 2 months of the year, but after that he was terrible. One of the most feared hitters in baseballs and he never walks because he'll swing at anything and everything. I
n 2012 he struck out so much it almost equaled his total from the two prior years. He was swinging for the fences because he wanted to cash in on a monster contract and that alone.
His pre all star game, and post all star game stats are sad. He went from .308 with 27 HR 75 rbi 76 so to .259 with 16 hr 53 rbi 86 so.June he hit .223 4 hrJuly .177 with 4 hrSept .259 with 7 hr
Take away his monster start to the season and he had a very bad year.
It is proven you do not need a power bat to win a world series, San Fran keeps doing it with that make shift offense.
Quit morphing this into another Hamilton whine. The front office didn't fill the slots needed and it shows.
I'm not predicting a fallout from the past 2-3 seasons, but the WAR dose not add up, as a barometer, for the Rangers to be as successful as the last two. Even our division is going to be tighter, 37% loss of HRand basic power numbers are lacking in a power friendly park. The FO is over selling the team. I'm not sold.
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