What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Yesterday I was listening to Ben & Skin in their weekly segment speaking to former general manager Jim Bowden. Yes, this is the same Jim Bowden who last season proposed we trade Mike Olt, Martin Perez and Cody Buckel for Cliff Lee, and most recently said to trade everybody for Giancarlo Stanton. (Just giving you context.)
Yesterday, he said, heading into 2014, we should trade both Ian Kinsler and Elvis Andrus, and sign Robinson Cano in free agency. Sounds legit, right?
If it went through, we'd essentially be trading one year and about 4.0-5.0 WAR from Elvis Andrus for what I would conservatively project to be one top-20 prospect and another top-100 prospect.
Kinsler would still have 4 guaranteed years remaining and $57 million owed to him. If he has a strong 2013, that contract will seem like a bargain. If he does not, he will be a waste of money. So that would mean he's either good for a couple solid prospects or it would essentially be a contract dump.
Obviously, by that time Profar would still have 5-6 (likely 6) years of team control, and Robinson Cano stands to make something in the $140-$150 million range in free agency.
Anyway, what do you guys think of his proposal?
I think you need to get a life.
I have to see more of Jurickson Profar before I'm on board with not attempting to re-sign Elvis. That being said, if he's what everyone seems to think he is, that's a very good deal. Cano is a stud.
However, Eric, yesterday I heard Yankees management gushing openly about Cano and saying they'd be wide open to a big money/long term deal. Smoke screen? Perhaps. But if I were them, the hang up would be Kinsler. They are old enough already. That's also not mentioning the fact that they have to re-sign Elvis. They ARE the Yankees. But Big Daddy Steinbrenner and his team of drunken sailors aren't running the ship anymore.
I am in favor of trading Elvis for a king's ransom, but I don't know that Kinsler's contract is that tradable. Like Bowden said, it would take a good year from Kinsler to bring back good value. I would like Cano at 7/$140, but I think we'll get at least 8 years somewhere... I could see Washington making a run for him.
That is, I think HE'LL get 8+ yrs somehwere.
Cano will be 31 at the end of this year. Boras will be shooting for at least 7-8 years on him. No way I'm in on that.
31? Yikes!! I didn't check that out. For some reason I thought he was a little younger. Yeah, that's a no-go.
First I'm in the resign Elvis group, but even if that doesn't happen why do we want Cano? Not that he's not a STUD but we have a 3 pretty good middle infielders in the minors. So why trade anything for the right to over pay for another 30+ yr old when you have 3 guys on the cusp of MLB ready who are younger and cheaper. Again nothing against Cano I just don't see the need?
#LEADERSHIP. That's why you need Cano.
Okay but really, I think his game is one of the few that can play well through his late thirties. He is a STUD lefty 2B that would kill in the ballpark. We have a surplus of minor league middle infielders, so trade them in packages with Andrus and Kinsler for young controllable stud outfielders, with Profar at SS and Olt at 3B once Beltre's contract is up, or delegate Beltre to UTF/DH.
Interesting thoughts, guys. Thank you.
Re: Having good middle infield talent in the Minor Leagues, that's true, but not on the level of a Robinson Cano. Guys like Sardinas and Garcia and Odor are all -- at their ceiling -- 3.0 to 4.0 WAR players. Robinson Cano is a legit 6-7 WAR player. Those are the guys that get paid $20+ million AAV.
With that said, and maybe I'm just a boring guy, I like the cost-effective route. I see far too many people coughing up their money at the casino during my night job. I would rather pay Profar the league minimum the next two years than pay Elvis $11.5 million (even though that's extremely cheap for what he offers). At the same time, I'd rather pay Kinsler around $60 million for 4 years than have to give $80-$90 million for Cano in the same time frame. Around Cano's age-35 season, he will be a single and double's hitter, which, although it's still valuable, probably not valuable enough to justify $22 or $23 million a year. To boot, he'd still have a ton of (likely backloaded) money owed to him for his decline years.
Just to be clear, this is not my hope for the 2013 season; it's just something I think about:
I wonder if the Rangers will be better off in 2014, and beyond, if 2013 is a collapse year. We'd be able to trade Andrus and Murphy and Cruz and Nathan (and maybe Holland or Ogando, if the return was enough), and Mike Maddux would be our new manager. Something tells me with all the prospects and money saved this offseason, that the Rangers will be splashing down on the trade and/or free agent markets these next two years.
Essentially, if 2013 is a success through June, I could see the front office adding on to help our postseason chances. If it's a bomb year, we trade assets for prospects and load up for names like Stanton, Heyward, Gonzales (Carlos), and Braun.
"Around Cano's age-35 season, he will be a single and double's hitter,"
What is that based on? With his power tool, and high OBP, I could see him transitioning into a good DH. His body is solid, but as it ages, I don't think it will break down like other big guys. He'd cost probably $10-11 mil more than a good but not elite 2B, but with the TV deal, that amount isn't as big as it is today overall.
With Elvis, Kinsler, Cruz, AJP, and perhaps Murphy off payroll next year, with the pieces in the farm, and the pieces from an Andrus and Kinsler trade, you can afford a more expensive Cano that is surrounded by high ceiling young controllable players. This is a transition time for the Rangers after this season, and I think having that veteran guy that can rake locked up and surrounded by good young talent is a good recipe for victory. 2015 is the year for the Rangers... Book it.
Crap like this is why he's former GM Jim Bowden.
Rangerbourne writes: What is that based on? With his power tool, and high OBP, I could see him transitioning into a good DH. His body is solid, but as it ages, I don't think it will break down like other big guys.
It's based on history. I agree with you that Robby Cano could age well, but history tends to say guys decline in their mid-30's. When I was younger (as a kid in the 90's), I always more or less perceived that players were in their prime between their age-28 and age-33 seasons. Or maybe I just heard that somewhere. Nowadays I tend to see primes more between 26-31.
Cano will be right at or above that age when (or if) he hits free agency. I'm just not usually on board with mega-deals to guys who've already hit 30.
I guess I mean to ask, why would his power drop off necessarily as he ages to where he'd be a single/double guy only? If you've got power, it seems like you have it until you're done. Usually it's the bat speed that goes first, but I was just wondering why you thought his SLG would decrease with age. ehhh
Do not want Cano. Will cost too much.
Neither does Daniels. It's not his modus operandi at all. Too many dreamers in here Andy.
Kinsler is in year one of four, he is not going anywhere soon. Looking for him to have a comeback year.......
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