What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
According to Keith Law, the Rangers' farm system ranks 9th in the MLB.
"The Rangers came in third among AL West teams, behind the Astros (No. 4) and Mariners (No. 8). The Oakland Athletics ranked No. 22, while the Angels were dead last at No. 30."
What do y'all think? Fair or not?
I have no idea what the state of the other 29 farm systems are, but looking at where the majority of our talent is (at the lower levels) and our recent success at development at the AA & AAA levels (not very good) I'd say #9 is pretty fair.
We're all ranger homers here, but the black and white of it is the Rangers haven't had many success stories come out of the upper part of the farm in the past few years. Not to say that isn't about to change, but when you don't have a single top 100 prospect who started the season in AAA last year, you can't really complain much.
Thats according to Keith Law (who's a known Olt critic - has him at 70somethin; I think Mayo has him at 20something; I think the consensus is probably around 40-50). So, the way he sees it, Profar is our only top end guy who's even close to knocking on the door and will make an impact. I think #9 is pretty fair for him.
Jim Callis has us ranked 4th on BA. I guess baseball scouts just have different opinions.
Angels are the worst farm system in baseball. One player in the top 100 prospects and no one else even remotely close to being of value. If you want suckitude, look there.
I suspect it comes to what you value.
Texas has very little at the upper levels other than Olt, Profar and Perez. You could throw Grimm, whom I am not sold or Ramirez who had a down year and Engel Beltre whose blue chip status is dwindling faster than Speedy Gonzalez on meth. Most of the rest of the upper level is on the roster already so are no longer prospects. It seems that people do or do not value Olt as elite prospect. Perez has been around forever so people think he is older than he is and then he regressed at AAA last season. I think many people view the talent available near the majors as closer to organization depth than wow talent. Other than Profar who everyone agrees is one of the best talents in the baseball.
Texas at the lower levels have lots of high ceiling talent but it is in A ball and I don't think many people value that until it hits AA. Texas also has a shortage of pitching in the lower levels. Buckel being the prize of that tier, though I think he saw AA time last year is a high floor guy which don't get people excited.
So if you value MLB readiness and floors over raw tools and ceilings and you believe Texas only has one every year all star at the top of the system than I could see where the Mariners who have lots of good talent at the AA and Houston who has been collecting prospects by the bushel would rank ahead of Texas and that Texas would be in the middle of the pack.
The farm is growing ripe, with not much to move up to MLB. No sweat, Daniels can alwaysgo back and get Brandon Webb AND/or the possible new opening of Chris Carpenter. Perfect!Gimp DeLuxe signings for $2mm each ought to close those deals pronto.
Keith Law is about as objective as they come, so I'd have to say #9 is fair. Simply put, Profar is exceptional, and after that we have mostly good complementary guys (Olt/Perez/Buckel/Grimm), and a bunch of high-end talent who's yet to prove anything above rookie or class-A ball.
If it was about future talent, say 3-4 years down the road, there isn't a better system than Brinson/Gallo/Edwards/Beras/Guzman/Mazara/etc. Right now, though, 9 seems fine.
Hmm, prospects. Isn't Ian and Elvis basically the only prospects that are homegrown?Most want to trade Elvis now before he hits prime and many want to move Ol' Kinsler away.Is that how the importance of prospects works? Small window to shuffle commodities of talent.Not too fan friendly and rather dry, even for a business. Oh, I understand the thinking, but notsure the organization agrees with most or many of you. At least they're not acting upon your thoughts.Does that make Daniels a non-genius? Maybe Mr. Hart still has some input. It's classic JH, so far.
No, I guess Ian Kinsler is the only one. Not good odds to pass up some good trades over prospects, huh?
"Fan Friendly" personnel moves are also known as "stupid" moves.
@ElliotReally?Like signing Beltre to play 3rd? Getting Cliff Lee for POs? Fan friendly + team improvement.
I'd take a shot at Derk Lowe
I don't know what I missed but I have not seen anyone say trade Elvis or Kins in this thread. Nor, am I not in that camp. The acquisitions like Webb and Harden that flame out are high risk, high reward signings. It has been the MO of JD since 2007 to value ceilings over probabilities of success. He losses on quite a few of his signings but when he wins, a core player or 3 seem to be the payoff.
The Rangers have not drafted particularly well over the JD years but it seems most of the dollars for amateur player acquisition have been spent in Asia and Latin America and a focus on acquiring talent out of other systems.
As far as homegrown, if you are talking about drafted or signed and brought up, which I think is still half the 40 man roster and guys who established themselves in Texas(Cruz, Murphy, Andrus, Harrison etc) I am not sure 3/4 of the 40 man is not homegrown. Beltre, Nathan, Berkman, Pierzynski and a bunch of middle relievers are the not homegrown players and of that group Beltre is the only member of the team's long term core.
What trade should JD have made? The Diamondbacks wanted immediate MLB ready return on Upton and Texas just did not have the pieces they wanted and still made sense for Texas.
Dickey or Shields would have cost Profar who is the only universally recognized near MLB ready elite talent in the system and starting pitching is not a weakness. I suspect Texas probably still did not have the talent at the top tier to beat the haul that the Mets and Rays got. Most of it has graduated to MLB or went away in 2010 and 2011 trades. Stanton, Cargo, Price were not available.
Berkman, Pierzynski and the removal of Young should fill the offensive holes well for a reasonable cost. Neither have Hamilton's upside but I don't see them having his downside either.
This team has the talent to win the division and stand up against the favorites in the AL.
I semi-agree with you. Daniels focus seemed very tunneled in his vision. Was Upton the only COFworth really going after? How many teams, players and high end prospects did he have to pool from?
Sorry, I just ran out of fingers and toes. We don't have the TORP or MOTOB we still need. No, not gloom and doom, nor is the sky falling. As a close following fan I expected more, though I am notdismayed totally by JD's actions... non-actions, yes. I can wait for the ASB when the high cards unfoldon the poker table, be it as buyers or sellers. The real season starts or re-starts in July/August anyway.
I wish the Rangers could develop better pitchers than Perez, Ross, and Cody B.
Sometimes you get a buschel full of 4ths & 5ths. Sometimes they grow into a semi-#3 as Dutch or a big #3 as Harrison. Darvish is a rare commodity that may be that Ace we've always needed.We may get that big arm at the turn of ASB this year, or we may not need him at all. I can wait.
Ha, GP Urine,
I would certainly consider Elvis homegrown, as well as Harrison and Feliz... moreland is homegrown, as well as murphy, gentry, cruz, perez, ross, ogando, scheppers, kinsler and holland.
Not one of those guys, whether acquired through the draft, international signing or trade came directly to the major league club... they were all groomed by the rangers in the minor league...
If you add Olt and Profar, you're now talking about probably 60% of the opening day roster....
In regard to trading Elvis, the reality becomes: either trade him, or let him go in two years... Boras wants his clients to go the free agency route... and frankly, there is no reason to keep Elvis, if you have a much less expensive and possibly better replacement available...
Sure like to get some really serviceable parts for him, rather than just letting him walk...
Law's rankings seem off, they're just so radically different than all the other ones I've read so far (BP, BA, Fangraphs, MLB) that I can't really understand where he's coming from. For instance, he rates Gallo over Sardinas and Alfaro. Buckel is ahead of Perez.
I just don't get his ratings at all.
I like to follow the Spokane Indians after our June amateur drafts. Where the majority of the guys we sign go - mostly college players. Our record lately:
2012: Last place.2011: Sixth out of eight teams. 2012: Third place, Skole and Delgan bottomed out so far but really a pretty good draft with Olt/Jackson/Buckel/Grimm it looks like.
Then as Henchman said above, the top of system isn't looking outstanding either.
Other than Pedro Strop we haven't been hosed by any trades. But that doesn't say much about the talent we've sent away in trade. Other than maybe Chris Davis coming along we haven't lost anything substantial, yet anyway. Maybe other GMs have seen how our young talent has panned out whether with the Rangers or with other teams we traded guys to and are thinking: JD is a horse trader and has got solid vets for some young guys that haven't excelled, at least yet ...
My point is that our Latin signings are propping up our amateur drafts. I'll put the "Fab Five" in abeyance and hopeful because they haven't even seen short-season yet.
Let's look at the Blue Jays, who in 2009 decided to beat everyone in amateur scouting when Anthopoulos became GM. As of last season anyway:
Blue Jays: 25 area scouts. 5 regional crosscheckers, 3 national crosscheckers, 3 video coordinators.Rangers: 18 area scouts. 4 regional crosscheckers. 2 national crosscheckers. 3 video scouts. (Note: 3 of the 18 area scouts are Texas only.) ... Plus we have 3 part-time scouts.
Then check how the Jays have performed at lower-mid minors. Domination.
Anthopoulos hired Andrew Tinnish as director of scouting (since promoted) and told him: 1) Fire all our scouts. 2) You scouts can all reapply.
They got 300+ resumes, and they took the best young hungry scouts and completely refreshed their system.
Rangers, I don't know how often they turn over their scouts or the politics there, but they might take a cue from the Blue Jays.
Part of the issue with Spokane is the rangers didnt put alot of their top end guys there because they are so young. Brinson, Williams, Guzman, and Mazara were in the AZL rookie league for the season and Gallo and Edwards started there (That team won the AZL crown btw if you're counting). Watch the Spokane team this year. I suspect you'll see a different result.
Mazara, Gallo, Guzman, Brinson and Williams are all expected to start the season in Hickory, not short-season Spokane.
@Ryan... you said
"The Rangers have not drafted particularly well over the JD years..."
I'm cutting out the remainder of your paragraph regarding the signing of Latin American players because, well, it's obvious JD has excelled in that area... but I think you hit the nail on the head in saying JD has not drafted well.
Evaluating talent is the one area where DECADES of experience pays dividends... andit's also where a young GM like JD might not excel... not yet anyway. That's not his gift... it's not his thing...he excels at thinking outside the box... but sometimes you have to rely on those scouts that have been evaluating players for the last 50 years. I think scouting is an area that Nolan should be more involved in, if not running. The last few years in particular have been real head-scratchers. The draft with Skoles and Deglan were miserable and last years draft of Matthews was completely out of nowhere. I do think they struck gold with Gallo but the other top picks (in the top 5 or 6 rounds, because let's face it, none of us know any of the kids picked after the 3rd or 4th round, let alone in the 20th round). didn't do much for me.
I suspect I'm older than most of you and I have been part of baseball in way or another for 30+ years, and I am in no way saying I know what I'm talking about but I watched several YouTube clips of this Brinson kid and I don't see why everyone raves about him. He looks so raw that he won't be relavent for another 5 or 6 yrs. Gallo, on the other hand, is big and strong and has a fluid stroke. He reminds me of Chris Davis.
I'm a little concerned now that the international market is changing and that JD is being forced into drafting more conventionally.
BTW - someone said earlier that Kins and Elvis are the only home-grown players... but are we considering Elvis as home grown when he was drafter by the Braves? What is the definition of home grown? To me it's a player that was drafted and developed by the same team. Kins is one... so is Moreland... and Scheppers ...and Ross... and Gentry... they were all drafted and developed by the Rangers, correct?
I stand corrected. Pay attention to the hickory club, not the spokane club.
I've complained before that drafting "high-ceiling / bottomless floor" types is not a good recipe. Brinson reminds me of just another Donald Harris. Yeah... he has ALL THE TOOLS... but, is he a baseball player... ? Not just ANYone can be a baseball player.
Gimme a David Murphy any day. Gimme a Charlie Hough; Matt Harrison; Kenny Rogers; Rick Helling.
And, you can keep your pretty boys... I'll blow you up, routinely.
For those of you that don't remember Donald Harris, he was the Rangers' First Round (5th overall) Pick in the 1989 Draft. Flame out.
Monty Farris... flame out.
Drew Meyer... flame out.
Jason Romano... flame out.
Do any of these guys remind you of anyone? Lewis Brinson? They are all "toolsy" guys that had "enormous potential". But, they weren't baseball players.
Ya gotta have baseball players.
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