What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
You gotta wonder why Az was so bent on sending Upton packing. Attitude? That's my guess. Possibly him and Young fed off each other. I'm glad we did not get him.
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP 162 671 590 97 164 33 6 24 80 18 8 68 154 .278 .357 .475 .832 117 281 11162 577 516 71 147 31 3 17 73 12 4 51 93 .285 .348 .453 .801 109 234 9
Murphy on bottom and Upton on top for a full season average.
The question is: are the three prospects, plus Delgado and the draft choice for Prado (you have to assume that he's gone after this year) worth two years control of Justin Upton?
I think this year could be rated a relative wash for Upton and Prado. Upton's a guy with a lot more upside, but we're not sure what we really get with him.
I don't think that much of Delgado, but he is a guy with lower to MORP potential and adds to a strong position for Arizona. Ahmed is apparently a guy who is well regarded, i've seen him rated as high as 3rd in Atlanta's system and could apparently play 3rd as well as SS.. maybe in a couple of years, they'll have Ahmed at 3rd, Gregarious at SS and that may solve their left side of the infield problems. In addition they will have picked Delgado and Spruill for starting pitching depth.
All that being said, Upton and Bauer were a lot to give up for that, but maybe it will work out for Towers. I hated the Bauer trade, can't complain if I were an Arizona fan too much about this one, but I will say one thing...
The two best talents in all of these trades left Arizona. He seemed to personalize whatever issues the organization had with the two kids (and upton is just a kid) and seemed to give up on both of them really quickly... and, no matter what sport you are in, you want to be collecting the best talent, not sending it on it's way.. (especially, if it's young and under team control).
I posted those same stats about 2 months ago and the nerds on here screamed like their Moms were cutting off their allowances. I'm glad he went to Atlanta.
i understand towers isn't very smart, but why not trade andrus for upton? where is profar going to play?
@MMI'm under the impression they don't get a draft pick for Prado. I thought a player needs 2 years on a team if traded to receive draft considerations. Is that correct?
I think with a year of service they get draft pick compensation. Definitely no compensation if he came in a mid season trade. Someone mentioned that it wouldn't be first round compensation, so maybe that's what would happen with only a year of service.
We're still talking about Upton for some reason..
3 years of Upton, not 2.
I realize that it's three full years of Upton and not two.. what i'm saying is, 2013 is pretty much a straight up deal of Prado for Upton (delgado and johnson will have some roles in 2013, as well)..
After 2013, the trade becomes: delgado, 3 prospects, (and draft pick compensation for Prado) for two years of Upton.
Compensation with a full year of service. The round isn't dependent on how long a player was with his team, as long as it was at least 1 full year.
This is the most depressing development of the offseason. Let's make sure we keep these "Upton is a spare" threads open so we can look back and laugh as he dominates for the foreseeable future.
That may not have been very clear. The round isn't dependent on how long a player was with his team; as long as it was at least 1 full year, his team can make him a QO. The round of draft pick given up by the team that signs him is dependent on where they finished the previous year - the 10 teams with the worst records will give up their 2nd round pick if they sign a FA that received a QO. The 20 better teams would give up their 1st round pick.
I agree with aggiecourt in that if these guys actually play this year, I'd rather they play full time in the minors than have Wash stick them on the bench. It's one thing to break a pitcher in by putting him in the bullpen... but position players meed to play and they need to hit. If Profar and/or Olt makes the 25 man roster, the likely outcome is Wash playing them in spurts. Baseball is just like basketball in that you have to find a rythm. You can sit a guy 6 days a week and then through him in the lineup on the 7th day and tell him to go mash... it doesn't work that way.
Keith Law's Take:
The Diamondbacks' new strategy seems to be to trade any player that manager Kirk Gibson doesn't like, regardless of the reason. For the second time this offseason, they've made such a deal and taken less than full value in return for a player the whole industry knew the team wanted to move. At some point, they're going to have to stop blaming the players.
Arizona's return boils down to this: One year of Martin Prado, six years of a fifth starter in Randall Delgado, two fringy prospects and one non-prospect. If that sounds like a good deal to you, I have some beachfront property in Phoenix to sell you.
they're going to extend Prado
Are the Braves really planning on leaving third base to Juan Francisco and Chris Johnson? Johnson combines an average bat with terrible defense, and Francisco looks like a quad-A hitter with an average glove. Neither seem particularly appealing.
Who cares if they extend Prado. If they sign him now, unless they get a discount over FA, then they haven't gained anything other then a little certainty. Kevin Towers really is looking like a buffoon with his off season. he sets too high in some places and too low in other places.
@akaDrSmack: in fairness, there's really nobody the Braves could replace Chipper, even at his age now, with that wouldn't be a downgrade. But look at their outfield! Yikes!
1 more thing; at what point does Michael Bourne tell Boras that he better find a team for him right away. If that happens, perhaps Bourne would be willing to sign a 2 yr deal as a Ranger. Think about it; what better park to inflate your numbers before hitting FA for a second time? We could even give him a 2 yr deal that allows him to opt out after yr 1 and gives him another shot at signing a longer deal with more money. I feel bad for the guy. It must be really frustrating to sit there and watch FA's sign fat contracts, block buster trades, etc...
I think that we'll see him sign before next Friday... and I predict he's going to get somewhere in the 2yr/$30M range.. oir maybe 3 yr/$45M but I doubt it.. If that were the case, I'd have no problem with the Rangers doing a 2yr deal. He could provide superior defense and allow Wash to mix and match Murphy, Martin, Gentry, and Cruz between the 2 corners. I realize that gives us a glut of OFers, and that his numbers are comparable to Gentry or Martin but what he provides is elite level defense. I love Gentry and I think he's a damn good CFer but he's a tad injury prone and he's not on Bourne's level.
Bourne would also make your pitching staff better by manning CF, but he'd also allow Wash to plug in Martin and/or Gentry as late inning defenders in the corners. Suddenly yuou have the fastest OF in all of baseball. The other advantage to signing Bourne is he would be our leadoff hitter, which would allow Kinsler to focus more on DRIVING in runs rather than trying to get on base so that the big boys could drive him in. I think Kinsler pressed too much last year, especially when Hamilton was stinkingh it up... but with Bourne leading off, you could hit Kins 5th or 6th and Isort of let the reins go on him. Let him take those big hacks. I better his power numbers would be much better if he wasn't hitting leadoff.
From Keith Law: "Arizona's return boils down to this: One year of Martin Prado, six years of a fifth starter in Randall Delgado, two fringy prospects and one non-prospect. If that sounds like a good deal to you, I have some beachfront property in Phoenix to sell you."
Pretty depressing that Texas wouldn't beat this deal. What a weak return for a budding star.
Just my nugget after reading this conversation,
Joey Gallo is not our 10th best prospect, he's higher than that. His power avails him of more rapid upward mobility within the farm system. While Sardinas may turn out to be an AS SS in his career, if Gallo can keep his K rate low and BB rate moderate, he'll move up VERY quickly. Just because a player has a higher ceiling, does not mean they are "better" prospects. Maybe I'm not in the consensus here, but IMO, a player with power can ascend quicker than a player with glove, arm, and speed can... especially within the Rangers' Farm. We already have a plethora of + Glove and + Defense guys.
Well, Braves fans are really down on the fact that Prado is gone eventhough he only has one year left. Towers is going to extend him using the money he saved on Upton.
I'll say it again, we should have traded olt to the Brewers for half of season of Greinke and not hold on to him for an eventual Upton trade. Regardless of what people think Olt is blocked here in Texas It makes no sense to say that Greinke was not worth Olt if we were going to go hard after greinke in the offseason knowing that the dodgers were in play too. instead we got Dempster thinking we only needed a 4th/5th stater and he ended up pitching game 162.
And god damn JD needs to let go of the idea of keeping Andrus and Profar. If the best AZ got was one year of Prado, two years of Andrus seems like a no brainer. All this Andrus and Profar situation is making me think Profar's forearm injury is more serious than we thought and he will be out for a while. We know JD keeps things rather close to his vest to not affect leverage. Feliz last year is the prime example of that,.
I did that breakdown to put it in context because I, like most, am more familiar with our farm system than other teams. Atlanta always has a top notch farm system so I figure the comparisons should be pretty close to ours. However, from keith laws quote above, it doesnt appear that the atlanta prospects in the deal have the same type of ceiling as ours do and either towers is a completely idiot when it comes to talent evaluation, or he was so mad at the rangers for not including elvis or profar in discussions that he was just not going to make a deal with us no matter how good our offer was.
All this Andrus and Profar situation is making me think Profar's forearm injury is more serious than we thought and he will be out for a while
Profar is playing in the WBC two weeks from now. I doubt the organization would let him anywhere near a stadium if they still had questions about his health.
That package from Atlanta does seem week. Maybe there is another deal to send them Olt to be their 3B and bring a pitcher back to the Rangers.
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