What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
When hell is full, the trolls will walk the forum.
you already are
What if the trolls are Tony Romo?
Could be. Tony Romo does have quite a bit of time on his hands.
Oh, he mad!
Come at me bro. I'm a man! I'm 40! Quit stalking perry!
txbill is a man? oops-my bad!
wRC+ tries to remove park advantages. Recent wRC's for last three years;Left Field top 10 in MLB;1 Ryan Braun Brewers 156 2 Matt Holliday Cardinals 148 3 Josh Hamilton Rangers 1474 Michael Morse Nationals 133 5 Josh Willingham 133 6 Carlos Gonzalez Rockies 132 7 Alex Gordon Royals 125 8 Melky Cabrera 115 9 Chris Denorfia Padres 115 10 David Murphy 112
Center field top 10 in MLB;1 Josh Hamilton Rangers 147 2 Matt Kemp Dodgers 139 3 Andrew McCutchen Pirates 137 4 Curtis Granderson Yankees 126 5 Jacoby Ellsbury Red Sox 121 6 Jon Jay Cardinals 116 7 Melky Cabrera 115 8 Adam Jones Orioles 114 9 B.J. Upton Rays 109 10 Shane Victorino 109
And right field top 10;1 Jose Bautista Blue Jays 166 2 Giancarlo Stanton Marlins 140 3 Lance Berkman 139 4 Michael Morse Nationals 133 5 Carlos Beltran 133 6 Corey Hart Brewers 131 7 Shin-Soo Choo Indians 131 8 Nick Swisher Yankees 129 9 Carlos Quentin 127 10 Andre Ethier Dodgers 126
These are 3 year averages. Interesting to see that the traditional power is still more prevalent in right field-where a noticeably absent Cruz ranked 16th with more David Murphy-like numbers for power. So we had two outfielders make the top ten for the last three years averaged in Josh Hamilton and David Murphy. OH!!!! Guess who ranked just BEHIND Nelson Cruz at 17th for right field? You guessed it....Justin Upton. Let's don't swap one out for the other and give some serious prospects up for Upton.
Forgot to thank www.fangraphs.com for the information!
Good stuff, Procurion. Although I'm wondering why this made it to the Cargo thread instead of the Upton trade rumors (unless you're boycotting that one for obvious reasons).
I've found it interesting that as the offseason progresses Upton's value has seemed to increase (according to make-believe trade proposals we see) while the rest of the market seems stagnant. I was hot on the guy in November (if Elvis was the price) but at this point I'm content with rolling with what we've got until July.
Pro, interesting list. What also does standout is that Berkman is so high at #3, and not a huge distance from Hamilton's number. So if healthy, an excellent sign even at 2/$20 and soon to be 37. The list also had Morse, who the Rangers have probably already done 'due diligence' on, very high. So, does that imply at least for 2013, that Morse would be a better pick up then Upton? Upside and youth has great value, but it reflects future instead of present success. Where should the Rangers focus go in 2013 in that respect?
this just made me think twice on upton for the first time in awhile. nice stuff procurion.
WRC doesnt tell us anything. You have to include defense.
Jesus, your name is a bitch to write out.
Anyway, wRC+ is an offensive metric. There's no need to include defense. If you want defense, look at UZR, DRS, or RngR. Based on your posting history, I tend to believe you voluntarily stay away from sabermetrics. But just know, to keep an open mind, I'm trying to help!
Morse vs Upton....I guess it depends on the cost, really? Not sure what Morse would cost but as much as Upton has been hyped for 2 years he would seem to be a heftier paycheck. I also wonder why he has been so highly regarded for a trade over 2 seasons but nobody pulls the trigger. Either AZ has an unrealistic idea of what he's worth or there are some issues with him that the general public doesn't see. I tend to believe the latter because AZ has been shopping him and has traded for OF players with him still in their system.
Goodasgoldyesmaam, the lst was along the lines of discussion about home vs away splits, not defense. Not intended to be any more or less. I just spent the 5 minutes pasting what I saw so that others could see and make their own mind up about the numbers. wRC+ is supposed to give a number while trying to normalize parks and their tendencies in order to give a single coherent value. Once again use or on't use the numbers, they were just posted for your pleasure if you wanted to read them :)
@ lesI had the same question about Morse. He's expendable now and would be far cheaper than Upton.His numbers the past 2 years .291/.321/.470 18-62 & .303/.360/.550 31-95 are impressive to me.Norm Hitgzes made a strong case for Rangers signing him.
Then i see this list--Pro.I hear he is injury prone,doesn't draw walks,is a defensive liability and isn't crazy about being a dh.But would be an awesome bench player could play 40 games at cof,40 games at 1b& 40 games at dh.Hits right and left hand pitching.And hitters can hit in TBIA.His 6.75 mil contract in a walk year sounds exactly like a piece JD might be interested in--ala Piersynski & Berkman.Couldn't we use a legit right hand power hitter?What do you guys think?Reasonable cost-contract and obligation?
@andrew: I'm still vacillating about the idea of signing Lohse, as he's tied to draft-pick compensation and he's in his mid-30's and doesn't have the pedigree of an ace. Chances are the Rangers wouldn't sign him for more than a couple years. Is it worth giving up that pick and $$ for a likely #3 (possible #2 but not likely IMHO) for 1-2 years? Probably not, although if we got Upton you might consider giving up that pick part of the cost to acquire him.
I'm not sure who we could trade Cruz for, but I'm skeptical it would be for a #3 or better pitcher (which is what I'd want), even for just 1 year. I guess I can't blame the Rangers if I take either of these courses of action, but I'm still not sure I like them.
I think we aren't going to go after either Bourn or Loshe. To me the huge problem with them isn't the loss of the draft pick but the loss of the slot money that goes with the draft pick. I'll bet right now both wind up back with their old teams on one year deals because no one else is going to give up the pick for them. Bourn I'd like here if it was for 3 years and we weren't losing the pick, which means I don't want him here now.
I agree that some people look at home/road splits too much. The one worry I would have on Cargo is that Coors doesn't play like any other park in baseball. Chase Field or even our ballpark doesn't play to the same levels year in and year out.
Andy two teams come to mind:  Detroit- the Tigers could use a right handed batting outfielder, at least to team with Dirks in left. That is/was the reason they checked on Upton. Their other left field candidates are Berry and Boesch, both letfties. So a Cruz for Porcello could be a go. I am not that high on Porcello but he would do better with the Rangers infield defense then in Detroit. Also could check on the availability of Boesch since his playing time would be severely reduced.  NY, actually either one, but the Yankees to stick to their plan would have to trade a like salary range player and just do not think their is a fit; the Mets on the other hand have someone they would like to move, Johan Santana. In 2013, one never knows what he would do, and that ranges as wide as an ACE TORP to zilch, if there ever was a gamble it is Johan. However, the trade would have to be creative, essentially each team in equivalence paying each others player's salary, including 2014 buyout [ Santana's is above $5m, then again if he makes it back to the OLD JOHAN might even pick up the 2014 agreement]. Santana had a wide span last year, from no-hitter to total ineffectiveness, so back to that huge gamble, and that is not JD. So we are back to PORCELLO.
Re: H/A Splits
Upton has the biggest OPS H/A differential in MLB. I say pass. Let's see what Martin/Gentry can do.
^This assumes if Upton were acquired that he would roam CF. Why?
As bad as Cargo's splits may be, like TX_ECNMST said, Upton's are the worst for the past few years combined. Consistently bad splits, not a 2012 fluke.
Dave Cameron of Fangraphs yesterday on Clubhouse Confidential explained it away, but every other person was a little concerned, but still saw him as a great player. But point being, Cargo is probably better than Upton and if for the same trade price, get Cargo for sure.
And I really think 2012 was a fluke offensively for Cruz, as well as Kinsler. And if they both have "normal" seasons, that will help make up the loss of Ham and get them 1-2 extra wins they need.
Cargo and Upton are not the same trade price.
And home/road splits are overrated.
I was just going off the trade price mentioned at the opening of the forum of Olt + Perez for Cargo. That sounds cheap to me, but what was suggested.
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