Stop accusing me of things. It's not fair.

Not fair? Fair is in October in Dallas at fair Park. Maybe you can go sometime. LOL ...... IMO Upton will always be disgruntled and unhappy and not worth anywhere what they are asking. I do not believe Wash has the managerial skills to deal with that type player.

I officially have a same-name troll. This is fun.

@lwayne: It ain't fair if you're a UT fan.

'Derek Holland is not an ace. Not a TORP. He's stuck in averageville with a blind #2 ceiling that he may never reach.'

Derek Holland is trending in exactly the direction that the FO wants him to trend. That is why he got a good contract. Look at Cliff Lee, you know, the guy we went bugshit over just a few years ago. Hollands early career looks like Lees'. Holland CAN BE a TORP pitcher, he has the stuff; it is just the mental hurdle and maturing that he needs. It would be insane to trade him at this point while he is locked into a good contract. To trade away 25% of our rotation and have the piece we trade away finish his learning this year and breakout? No way Jose!!!! Most pitchers take 4 or 5 years to get it all dialed in. He is another of Washington's rookies that he put into a position to succeed.

Eric I agree , when someone uses your own personal name that is a true indication that the forum like it did this time last year is digressing so much away from the intended purpose of an exchange of ideas and opinions on a subject we all can agree we thoroughly enjoy, the Texas Rangers. Last year I dropped out of the forum, because it evolved in to much of a personal attack of the author and not the subject. If I have evolved into a part of the problem instead of a contributor to the subject that we want to talk about and opine over, then it is time to cease. Personally Eric , I have enjoyed reading your posts, just at times not so much your comments on individuals or organizations that does not add to your intended perspective. And who knows, maybe this season when we look over to right field we will see Upton manning the position .

To trade away 25% of our rotation and have the piece we trade away finish his learning this year and breakout? No way Jose!!!! Most pitchers take 4 or 5 years to get it all dialed in.

I don't think you're right about that last statement. Holland is heading into his age-27 season. I don't think the whole "youth" argument is valid anymore. In 2011 he had an amazing year, and finished with a 3.95 ERA. I'll gladly take that from him. I think his ceiling is closer to the 3.5-3.7 range. But he's not met those expectations yet, and every year we're waiting for him to show it.

This is the big leagues. Show it.

Eric, are you down in the basement playing with your computer AGAIN?

Eric, get back to work. There's a cowboy over there who almost got gorged by a bull because your clown ass wasn't in the ring to help distract that big beast. If I catch you standing out by the barn playing with your iPad one more time, you're fired.

Seriously, has anyone here ever checked out Eric Reining's facebook page? He's a 20-year old kid who likes to "play dress-up" and wear clown makeup all the time.

Oh My God! !

Have to agree with the genuine Eric (my phone will not allow a genuine lower case e). Holland has not achieved his potential and what we have seen is likely to be what we will get. I have hopes that AJP will kick his goofy ass, but whether these beat downs result in improvement remains an open question. The only thing saving Derek is the uncertainty of his likely replacements. Yes, he can pitch lights out, but he doesn't often enough. If AZ or another team wants to dream of southpaws being aces, then give me Upton and good luck to Holland. Right now he looks at a long shot, and at 7mm per year, I would lay off that bet.

Are you saying Eric is a CLOWN?

Another way of looking at an Upton for Olt and Holland trade is what will exactly be the change in the Rangers lineup. For sake of argument, let's say the trade is made. It will not only be an add of Upton, it also will add Lohse. The Rangers will need a #3 starter. Currently, according to T.R. Sullivan, the Rangers are talking to Boras about Lohse. Lohse wants ACE money, but few are actually calling, so a reasonable deal could work. So, even though reports state that the Rangers are moving on, revival of talks with the Diamondbacks are but a phone call away. Two questions then emerge [1] would Towers go for that package? And [2] is a trade-off of Upton and Lohse worth Olt, Upton and a loss of a #1 draft choice [maybe wrong but I think it is the 24th ] and loss of slot money? However, the Rangers hold the 31st choice for loss of Hamilton, so they still have a reasonably high choice left. With the Rangers past tendencies to draft high schoolers with high upside or less expensive college talent, the slot money again may prove not as great an issue.

I would neither presume not welcome a Lohse replacement for Holland in the event of Holland's trade. Lohse is better than Holland today, but he costs more and will be near worthless in too few tomorrow's.

Trolls be trolling. I swear its probably the same gu that gets clowned on here, consistently changes his name, and then starts talking about "meds".

For future reference - Bleacher Report is akin to "not that eric". Absolute garbage.

Primi, I have to disagree - Lohse is not better than Holland today. He offers a barely 90's fastball at best and pitches to contact. Remind you of someone who made the transition from NL central ball to the AL west?

TXball;

Now you're talking out your ass. Don't believe everything you read. Quit trying to make points and try to KNOW what you are talking about. Sorry I have the same name as the boy wonder. GEEEZUS

You're garbage. I have yet to see a post that is of any informative benefit on this site from any of your troll handles. Contribute more, troll less.

Primi, then who would you realistically place in Holland's slot if indeed a trade is made? Lohse had a great 2012 but he was also paid just short of $12m, and in my opinion, as you pointed out, is too aged and to expensive, unfortunately this thus hints at the Rangers hoped-for -plans. But then as we all know, the Rangers do 'due diligence' on near all scenarios. The most cost savings plan in my view would be have both Perez and Ross as starters. Other options as free agents: Bedard, Marcum, Sanchez would prove less costly, especially considering loss of draft choice. I also see Lohse as a NL PITCHER who may not transfer to the AL his NL numbers. A good example would be Dempster. So does it get back to the Rangers can not afford to trade Holland, making all the other moves not a necessity.

I think it just comes down to that right now we can't trade Holland because we are trying to compete this year and don't have a ready replacement. If we had 5 solid in the rotation right now then I think we could reasonably discuss Holland in a trade.

And just for accuracy's sake Holland is about to start his age 26 season this year. He will be 26 all the way through the season, unless we go deep in the playoffs. Doesn't change the basic core of an argument.

I would take either Olt/Holland or Olt/Perez/Prospect for Upton in a heartbeat. Not out of a desire to only mash and forget about pitching, but because I also think the pitching will come out better on the other side of this deal if we sign Lohse as well.

In the Olt/Holland scenario, I think you can pretty much swap out those two as #3 starters. Lohse is projected as 2.8 fWAR this year with a 3.90 FIP, whereas Holland promises to provide a meager 2.4 fWAR with 4.09 fWAR. Hopefully, because of the lack of a market for Lohse we can talk Boras into a shorter-term deal without ballooning the payroll for next year. The issue then becomes the #5 starter, as it is now, so by pulling the trade and signing Lohse the Rangers basically have a slightly upgraded pitching staff plus alot more possibilities offensively. I have a hard time believing we can't piece the 5th rotation spot together semi-effectively with Ross/Perez/Grimm until June when Colby comes back. This is, of course, assuming no injuries, which 2011 spoiled us into believing is reasonable.

In the Olt/Perez/Prospect scenario, you don't have the same short-term problem because you just plug in Lohse to the rotation. A starting five of Darvish, Harrison, Lohse, Holland, and Ogando, with one of those five (probably Ogando) sliding to the bullpen when Colby comes back sounds awfully good. This scenario is way better as far as starting pitch depth goes, which 2012 woke us up to the extreme importance of.

So, which is better? I'm not sure. It seems that if Perez/Grimm/Ross are ready to perform at a Holland-like level soon (i.e. this year), you trade Holland. If you can get Lohse in a shorter-term contract and Grimm/Ross/another pitching prospect can step in and take Lohse's place when his deal is up, you package Perez.

"Trolls be troling..."

And clowns be clowning.

Clown on with your own clown self, Eric Reining.

Les, your point that we need to consider the other effects on the team is good. However you didnt mention the effects on the outfield.

If Upton replaces Cruz, then good. Cruz is only replacement value per Baseball Reference, and rapidly getting worse. If acquiring Upton means a trade of Cruz to take the Cruz toy away from our poor stubborn manager, then this will be an upgrade of 3 or 4 WAR, if Wash was dead set on playing Cruz, which i suspect he is. I think there are other ways to replace Cruz with an upgrade of 3 or 4 WAR that are much less costly, but OK.

If Upton replaces Gentry or Martin, then Upton isnt an upgrade. Nevertheless, if any of us would say that Utpon is still an upgrade, then it isnt much. Bear in mind, I mean defense and offense, not just offense. I am talking wins or WAR, not triple slash lines that look at only offense.

Upton won't help unless the Rangers trade Cruz!! Trade Cruz anyway! I prefer an outfield of Murphy, Gentry and Martin, with Borbon in reserve.

I think it's pretty sketchy that my trolls have found a way to my Facebook page.

Hey guys. Just wanted to say that I apologize for my actions lately. Things haven't been going so well in my personal life. I love the Rangers, just like you guys. I just need to get some things straight. I still think Eric is an arrogant ass, but I'll keep my comments under control in the future.