Last remaining Big FAs left on open market. It just so happens, Daniels is still
talking a Pitcher & Outfielder. Yeah but...

(RE) Enter: Loshe & Bourn?

This "Talk" won't go away. When I heard the whispers, neither made any sence.
That was weeks ago. Why? Nothing adds up. Both are Scott Boros clients also.
I suppose I can see a scenario, but the cost, even in One Year Commitments each?

Now it seems Lance Berkman, former team mate of both, has his brain picked about each!
What gives the "talk" some major creibility is, MLB T.R. Sullivan, is writing about the possibilties.
With the losing of draft picks by signing, it's got a spin that just does not work, ala GM, Daniels.
Yet, the rumor is very consistent... yeah, like a nagging migrain headache on Sunday Morning.

Is this really going to happen in your view? Thinking of Leonys Martin & Gentry not as a combo,
but as trade bait? Does this freeze a possible Upton or even a Stanton future trade sceanrio, or
does it make more sense, due to having Bourn? Pressure on Towers to move or lose open chance?

Lohse? OK, one really good year 2012. Boros will equate a Cy Young bit to Daniels, but no one is
biting. It's going to be a One Year, for 34y/o Lohse. Sure, Daniels is chewing on that. It's feasable.

I can't see much wrong with signings, but the right is not much of a high ceiling either... considering cost.
OK, maybe most of us are just too cost conscious? Yes, we know all the talk about Ranger Budget 2013.

Ya know, it's like winning a real nice sports car, but it turns out to be a dull dusty brown, not sexy lipstick red.
I can't quite put my finger on it or my head around it either. At least its fast with a stick and can go 212 innings.

I set the odds of us acquiring either of these two players at 2%, and if it happens, it will be on a one-year deal. I don't see it happening.

1 The payroll is already bumping $125 million with the additions, of Soria and Berkman. Making a "grand move" to scoop up both Lohse and Bourn at the last minute is splashy, but unlikely given the salary. A payroll of $145 to $150 million? I can't see it being done for these guys.

2 Aside: For Upton, I could see a willingness to add salary to the budget. And/or for a younger better pitcher than Lohse.

3 The fact that it would cost two draft picks makes it even less likely.

4 The idea that Lohse would take a one-year deal is almost nil. He had his career year (so he's at top value now) and he's 34. Waiting a year to reset his market value and try again would be dumb. Boras is anything but dumb.

5 Does Bourn offer anything more than a vastly more expensive, more experienced version of Gentry?

there is no reason to sign bourn none, so anyone even talking about it is just talking to hear themselves speak.

Lohse I get it, on a 2 yr deal but with the draft pick even that looks dumb. I mean the guy had 1 good yr.

I just don't see either of those things happening.

I don't see the evaluations of Martin/Gentry vs. Bourn as quite that simple, Joe. If we're talking a strict RH/LH platoon, Gentry would only start about 45 games next year, leaving the almost completely unproven Martin in CF most of the time. I like both Gentry and Martin, but their performance next year is uncertain to say the least. I think it's highly likely that Bourn outperforms that duo (in Arlington) the next two seasons.

Of course, it's not just performance or certainty. To me, it's Martin/Gentry, a draft pick, and $15M versus Bourn and whatever we could get by trading Gentry. Additionally, there might be some value in moving Kinsler out of the leadoff spot and down in the lineup. All that is more uncertainty thrown in.

Budgeting issues aside (as I don't know what the team is willing to spend, and I don't know how they would allocate that $15M if it didn't go to Bourn), it's not a no-brainer in either direction. I wouldn't fault the team either way.

No, no, no, no, no!

Sullivan does bring some credibility. Did JD talk to Berkman about B&L BEFORE his signing,
to possibly entice him coming to Texas? Did JD talk to Berkman AFTER his signing, as a front
in posturing towards Kevin Towers/AZ and MIA?

Towers thinks he has players everyone wants, in Kubel and Upton. Texas obviously has a great
pkg to give AZ, but so far Towers is holding out for more. Take Texas off that list by say signing
of Bourn and AZ loses big time... stuck with too many OF. Towers jumps in before a Bourn deal.

I suppose the same scenario plays out with MIA too. Stanton surely has to dominoe real soon.
Depends on the "big load pkg". Texas can meet AZ & MIA with a haul, but on Daniels terms.
I think JD's trying to save Profar at all cost. Elvis HAS to bring a big pay-off, before JD lets loose.
JD seems to be waiting it out. Throwing rumors- saying his team is fixed and spring training ready.

JD's not on the clock. He's got this equasion played four different ways, to sunday. First to talk, loses.

DDan
All I know about Martin is he did well in AAA so I can't really speak on him. Gentry on the other hand I really like and was starting to really do well until for some strange reason Wash sat him on the bench for 2 months so he could play Murphy in left and Josh in center. Now with Gentry we are only getting SSS (because of wash) but when he was playing regular he was doing well against both RH and LH pitching, he's uber fast and good with the glove. so why spend 13-15 million a yr on a guy who isn't a major upgrade? Hey if you can go get Adam Jones or Trout or someone who is a REAL UPGRADE then by all means get it done but just to go out and get a "guy" that aint that much better than the "guy" you already got why spend the money and the draft pick??

Joe, I'm not saying I disagree with your ultimate conclusion. My concern is with the possibilities that (a) Gentry won't be able to produce the same results over a full season as a starter (or possible even as a reserve for that matter), and (b) even if he is able to put up good numbers, that Wash won't play him full-time.

From a performance standpoint, Bourn is very likely to produce results that we hope Martin/Gentry can produce. So if the FO is trying to get this team back to the WS in 2013, a short contract with a high AAV for a player who brings more certainty to a key position (and moves Kinsler out of the leadoff spot) isn't a "bad" move. If the team's trying to give young guys more of a chance to play and, if they don't perform well and we miss the playoffs as a result, so be it, then Martin/Gentry is a better choice.

For what it's worth, I think Martin/Gentry will replicate a lot of what Bourn does at a significant discount. However, I'm not so certain that I'd chastise the FO if they signed Bourn instead.

Lose 2 draft picks? Nope... only the First Rounder goes bye-bye. If you sign 12 guys with compensation assigned, you only give up the one pick...

...or, did I read that wrong... ?

If I'm right, signing one would completely mitigate the signing of the other.

If you sign two (or more) qualified free agents, you lose two (or more) picks. The rule is very clear.

Thanks, Dave.

Yet, the interest an talks have heated up for Kyle Lohse signing with the Rangers.

The Rangers and Lohse: talks have "heated up"? Sez who? The fact that he's still out there and there's no other solid free agent pitcher for us to bat around means he gets more mentions here as well as by bored media with nothing to write about...but what evidence is there that the RANGERS have intensified a pursuit of him? I see absolutely nothing except media batting around his name to fill Rangers-related space.

Well they have to associate guys with some team. Nobody would believe the Astros are in on Bourn or Lohse. The Yankees and Angels and Dodgers obviously aren't in on Bourn. The Cardinals haven't done shit and don't really need to. At some point the Rangers are the next biggest team to talk about. I suppose the Angels and Red Sox could possibly be in on Lohse, but I'm pretty sure the Angels are near or over their budget and nobody knows what Ben Cherington is doing. The Rangers are a good, safe team to be linking high-profile FAs to, especially given that we already have a few Boras clients.

Andy, the speculation-based articles, which are nothing more than media trying to guess what might happen, are just part of the expected landscape

But my point was, I was questioning PT resuscitating this thread and saying "interest and talks have heated up for Kyle Lohse signing with the Rangers." He apparently did that as an attempted validation for some point or other. but I don't see anything so far that would qualify as things "heating up" on the Lohse front.

Sometimes players call players etc. Sometimes players talk to neibors & friends...
The media feed itself. Real life goes on outside of a stadium. Lohse has friends here.

Now Obi you stop that you hear? Your going to confuse some of these kids into
thinking ball players are real people, not just statistical spread sheets in fantasy.
Many are still getting gas money from Daddy occaisionally. Mom, is dinner ready?

Posted this in the McClellan thread earlier, before I came to this resurrection. It bears repeating. Can we please stop with the Lohse wishful thinking? Lohse was mediocre to not very good, for years in the AL, with Minnesota. He goes to the NL, has some success with a very good team, and suddenly he's a great starter? IMHO, his ceiling, if he didn't have the high mileage on his arm, is barely a 3. He's a 4 on a good-to-great team. Dempster's a slightly better pitcher, and they both belong in the NL. Just say no to a Boras-inflated contract, and the loss of a draft choice/minors bonus pool money.

@Yu4
First, Lohse is a MLB pitcher. Second, he's an MLB pitcher.
I suppose you're speaking to fans in here & not the Rangers FO?
If talks continue, we'll have to live w/JD's decision. We are short
of depth. For that reason alone, I would welcome a "Colby like" arm.
DC signed Soriano. Surprising? Nope. He makes them better.

It is no great conspiracy theory but it is how the industry operates. Last year was typical and this year is the same. Free agents left out in the cold and their agent makes friendly requests to guys who write. There is an unspoken agreement that if they write stories about their players, they will get good information throughout the year. This good information solidifies the writers' reputation as a good source and the player gets signed at the last minute. Both the agent and the writer are happy, the world continues revolving, and the season begins.

@Joe C http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4886098/craig-gentry-ankle-exits-after-third-inning

Gentry re-injured a sprained ankle. Murphy started playing the best he's ever played and was hitting lefties to the tune of .340+...If you'll remember, Gentry was supposed to replace Murphy in left but Hamilton and Gentry worked it out between themselves and Gentry came in one day and Hamilton slid to left while Gentry moved into center. After the game both joked about it, and Gentry said it was because he "didn't feel comfortable" playing left field. That did not sit well with Washington-and it should not have.

So Gentry gets hurt, Murphy plays great, Hamilton announces almost the same day as Gentry removes himself from the game that there is a movie being made about him, and that he wants to play center field every day. So what is Washington supposed to do? He played Hamilton in center and the guy who was playing the best he ever has in left-which was where Gentry said he did not feel comfortable. Was Washington supposed to remove Hamilton? Look at how many games Gentry played in left field. According to BB reference it was 0 times because he and Hamilton would switch-that is not good.

Lohse is a Catch 22 situation. If the Rangers would sign him to a 1 year is he worth losing the 24th choice in the 2013 Rule-5 and slot money [ maybe wrong by a slot or two] AND if you sign him to a longer term contract is he taking Feliz's, Perez's or Ross' spot and slowing their progress to a 30+ game starter. So it would appear the best choice is neither. Pass on Lohse and if a free agent is indeed signed, Marcum or Bedard to a 1- year at a much lower salary [$2 to 5m range] makes more sense. Both have pitched in the AL, and has had success 3.85 and 3.70 era respectably. Martin is ready and with an investment of $3..3m for 2013, it is time for him to be near full time center fielder. His 2012 .359 batting average is noteworthy but pales to his .422 obp with good drive and a degree of power [at least superior to Bourn's]. Martin could have as much success as Oakland had with his once teammate Cepedes, except Leonys is best suited as a lead-off or #2 hole hitter, and not yet a run producer with top tier power. Would take him over Bourn even if he can not come close in matching Bourn's speed and the Rangers would be in a similar CATCH 22 with Bourn as with LOHSE.

Sure, Lohse is a Catch22, but depth on our staff proved to be one strength in 2012.
Signing him to a one year maybe under Boros' line, but a two year isn't a stretch either.
Our 5th starter (Perez) is all still very young and could use more time (ASB) in minors.
I can't see Bourn here, unless JD wants a leadoff man with a high SO%-lowly OBP too.
Certainly not more than a one year. Doubt if Boros would even consider Bourn a one yr.

@Hubz: I wouldn't presume to speak to the FO, as they seem to know what they're doing. I'm not arguing that he's worthless, either. He's just too costly, when there are others(like the above mention Marcum) that could fit the #5 slot, if you're not impressed with going to Perez, et al.

Bourn's talking publically about wanting to return to his Texas roots and retire with a Texas club.
Naw, no pressure Mr. Boros. I wonder if Bourn retains Boros? MB is getting nervous and antsy.