What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Apparently Profar and Olt are starting the year in AAA. If that's the case send Leonys with them and sign Bourn and Adam Kennedy. You have a bench of Gentry, Soto, Kennedy + add some one who can play the left side of the IF. This gives you versatility and a good veteran lefty off the bench.
With Berkman, Cruz, and Murphy on 1 year deals, next year you can start with Leonys in LF, Bourn in CF, Kinsler in RF with Profar at 2nd and Olt at 1st. That gives them more time in the minors (even though they are pretty much ready) and good available players in the minors in case of a long injury. Thoughts?
How long do the Rangers have Leonys Martin? He signed on a 5 year deal. However, after 5 years, 2 of which are gone already, does he move on, or does he become subject to the CBA and stay with the Rangers until 6 years of MLB service time?
Bingo- Adam Kennedy, I've thought, would be a great bench guy.
If the presumed plan to start Olt and Profar in AAA are correct, then it would seem that the roster hole is the utility infielder who can play second and short. Kennedy does not fill that need. The only plausible free agents I can spot are Alex Gonzalez, Rony Cedeno, and Ryan Theriot. This is an important fill if we hope to keep Andrus and Kinsler fresh. Even if a trade is in the works, this need remains. Am I missing something?
I am not in favor of Profar or Olt or Martin in Triple A. To me you are leaving significant talent that can help this team off the table. Yes they are all young and inexperienced but until you let them play they will always be inexperienced.
Leonys is a free agent in 2019.
Adam Kennedy wouldn't be a bad bench guy, but I'm adamantly against signing Bourn. Leonys doesn't need any more time in AAA. Plus, he's a lefty, which this team needs.
I agree with gnats on Martin and Bourn. I really do not favor putting any of the youngsters in Triple A. Play them now!
"If that's the case send Leonys with them and sign Bourn"
"Adam Kennedy wouldn't be a bad bench guy, but I'm adamantly against signing Bourn. Leonys doesn't need any more time in AAA. Plus, he's a lefty, which this team needs."
I think they are sending Profar down because of Berkman and Olt down because he will lose value at any position other than 3B. Leonys can prove himself this spring and platoon with Gentry. Bourn doesn't make any sense at this point unless he puts Texas "over the top". Which, I don't think he does.
Remember.... Texas' cap at the moment is at about 125 mil. (w/ arbitration projections) the same as last year. They won't spend too much more money if any at all.
There is no Doomsday scenario in which I would want to sign Michael Bourn. Unless there is some type of zombie relay race and he could be the anchor with Gentry, Borbon & Elvis.
As for bench guys, I'd just assume run out Snyder-types and keep Olt & Profar in Round Rock for a bit. We know Wash isn't going to play them for any significant amount of time and as I've tried to argue here before, even the best pedigreed bench player will grow rusty and underperform if they don't get at least occasional reps.
Martin is in centerfield and getting the majority of time there. Leonys' contract is a bit unusual, having signed out of Cuba, He is due $3.3 in 2013 [ another reason he is on the 25], then $3.75 in 2014 and $4.25 in 2015, 2016 he either has a clause in his contract to be released as a free agent or otherwise is arbitration eligible, and becomes a free agent after second arbitration year, in 2018. Three others to consider: Jason Bartlett, Alex Gonzalez, and Freddy Sanchez.
I do wonder if we might be looking at Leury Garcia as our UIF. Good glove, zero bat, also has played some OF in DWL this year.
Martin is going to get every shot to start up with the big club this year. Olt and Profar are MLB ready but are blocked by MLB All Star players at the positions that they play. Keeping them down on the farm for at least a bit makes a lot of sense.
With Cruz still on roster and the likelyhood of his seasonal down time, due to injury,leaves some time in the COF for both Moreland & Olt. Olt also spells Beltre some.Both will probably free up some Murph time too. Leonys too, if Wash judges a fit.
Profar, to me is the big question, yet he has the biggest upside in talent & betterment of the team... IF he plays. Leonys will win the CF job, with Gentry in combo at CF.That Combo brings spades, if both hit and perform as expected, platooning in CF. With Wash's hard line with vets, I see Profar in AAA. If he's up at MLBfor 139 days,his clock is turned to 2019, instead of 2020. Wash won't move Elvis or Kinsler much.Look for a cheap mid INF bench jockey, added to the roster soon. He'll rot like Blanco.
That's exactly what I don't want, Obi.
Remember the 2011 World Series? The Cardinals had guys like Allen Craig coming off their bench. We had guys like Esteban German coming off ours.
Depth doesn't mean much if the players suck. Whenever Blanco or Quintanilla played, I felt like we were throwing an inferior lineup out there. Gonzalez last year wasn't much better.
Andy, I think the point is, either way, our bench guys wouldn't get playing time.
Unless JD brings in a guy that is good enough to force another platoon situation somewhere, Wash simply hasn't shown to this point he is willing to play his reserves. Now there may have been discussions addressing that this offseason, but until I see a change in Wash's lineups, I don't see a need to change the bench. Olt and Profar coming off the bench in the playoffs would make me happier than just about any other affordable bench guy I could think of.
Work was busy today so I am a little late to the party but I like arnrob's idea of signing Ryan Theriot to the team for the purely simple reason that I like his last name The - Riot.
@The_Henchmen: that's my point exactly. Our bench guys suck, and they don't get any better because they never have a chance to play. It's a vicious cycle, and it will screw us in NL parks when they have to be used more.
Just for an example, I look at the A's team last year, and I think, they didn't have a pushover in the lineup. None of their guys scared me the way Josh most likely does when he's in the zone, but none of them looked like they were going to just be a sure out, like a typical pitcher usually does. However, that's the feeling I got when guys like Gonzalez and German batted. The A's didn't have that problem, probably because they all got to play regularly.
Obviously you can blame Wash for not giving them the experience, but you also have to look at the front office as well. Given the bench guys they've had the last couple years, it's harder to blame Wash for not giving them more playing time, as it's obvious the team suffers when they're playing, more often than not.
First Round Draft Choice. First Round Draft Choice. First Round Draft Choice. First Round Draft Choice. Repeat infinitely.
lol - The Rangers likely haven't even approached anyone who would jeopardize their First Round Draft Choice. Suggesting they go after someone like Bourn (who would only marginally be more effective than Gentry alone and behind a Martin/Gentry platoon) would be tantamount to telling the FO they should stop pillaging all the youngsters and go after the geezers ala the Yankees.
JD prizes his draft picks and his farm system - maybe even more than his Big League Club. Don't count on his putting signing Bourn (or Swisher/LaRoche/et al) ahead of his Plan.
i still like the idea of bourn, with sub par defenders at the corners, you need a good defensive CFer....why not get the best defensive centerfielder there is in the MLB.
Plus imagine all the possibilities you have with Elvis and Bourn batting back to back with Adrian batting behind them.
Plus his stock has fallen, I'd surrender a first round pick if we could get him for either 2/25 or 3/36. Listening to what people are saying about Leonys instincts, i think he'd be a better fit at a corner outfield spot instead.
...why not get the best defensive centerfielder there is in the MLB
Because you can get virtually the same exact player in Gentry/Martín, without spending a dime!
"I'd surrender a first round pick if we could get him for either 2/25 or 3/36."
You'd also have to knock $1-2m out of your budget. No, no, no, never, never. Not interested. Why do you think he's that much of an upgrade over the Gentry/Martin platoon?
I wouldn't call Murphy subpar. He was excellent last season, so even with a bit of regression he might still be above average. Cruz, on the other hand, is trending downward. And Bourn is hardly an upgrade over Gentry defensively.
Bourn's ideal place, to me, seems like where he can make an improvement offensively and defensively on a team. For example, Baltimore; he could play CF and let Jones move to a corner spot, thereby upgrading their defense at both spots. Ditto Pittsburgh for McCutchen. I would offer the Dodgers as well, but they already have over $300m invested in their outfield.
@gnats; are you serious when you say that Martin/Gentry are the same player as Bourne? If that was true, every team in baseball would be beating on JD's door for one of them. Bourne is an exceptionally gifted centerfielder that's durable, consistent and proven. He instantly makes our pitching staff better. He's a true leadoff hitter that knows how to get on base (.348 OBP) and he's swiped a bag or 2 in his career. As much as I hate to admit it, the National League style of baseball is winning World Series'... not the teams that lead the league in HRs... and we all know how Wash loves the hit-n-run/small ball. You stick Bourne in the leadoff spot and have a solid contact hitter like Elvis behind him (who BTW, has nearly identical stats as Bourne), you're putting a runner in scoring position every time Beltre and Berkman come to bat. Having to deal with a Bourne and Elvis combo would be a nightmare for the opposing teams and it gives Wash flexibility with the middle of the lineup. In fact, you could move Kinsler to the 3 spot and leave Beltre at cleanup... then you have 3 speedsters in front of the meat of the order.
Bourne just turned 30 and is still in his prime (or barely out of it). Seeing that LaRoche, at 33 yrs old and playing the least demanding position, just signed for 2 yrs/$24M, I'm guessing Bourne is going to get a 5 yr deal in the neighborhood of $18M AAV.He's a Boras client, and even though we're a month and half away from pitchers and catchers reporting, he will advise Bourne to be patient and wait for that 1 desperate team willing to give him that extra year. HOWEVER, if JD offered him a 4yr/$70M deal with either a 3rd yr player option or a guaranteed 5th yr team/vested option with very attainable goals, I bet he'd jump on it... especially since his power numbers would be inflated so if in that 3rd year he want's to go back into the FA pool, he could do it... and he'd have no state income tax, he's back in Texas where he must have some roots from his days as a Houston Astro. It could be a good deal all around.
The knock on him is his lack of power but it's pretty obvious baseball is shifting towards great pitching and great defense. He's not going to produce like Hamilton but then again, who can? You might squeeze 10-15 HRs but you're not buying power, you're buying the best CFer in baseball and a true leadoff hitter. One thing to keep in mind too is that Berkman has power but he can't run, so we need more table-setters for when the big boys like Beltre, Berkman, Cruz, AJP come up to the plate.
I wasn't interested in Bourne a few weeks ago... but then I imagined the flexibility it gives Wash, along with the fact you're not giving up any prospects to get him, like you would for a guy like Upton. And who cares about the draft pick compensation. We picked one up from Hamilton and we'd lose one if we signed Bourne, so it's a push. I'm definitely on board with going after Bourne and seeing some variation of the following:1) Bourne CF2) Elvis SS3) Kinsler 2B4) Beltre 3B5) Berkman DH6) Cruz RF7) AJP C8) Murphy LF9) Moreland 1B
**I omitted Profar because I really don't know how he's going to be worked into this lineup. The whole Kinsler to 1B thing is absurd. If Kinsler's willing to play LF, then its a different story, but I doubt he's going to be down for making such a move. As it is, I'd rather Profar get regular playing time in the minors than come up and be a utility with Wash playing him 2 times a week.
One more thing and then I'll shut up; the situation with Olt is interesting. He didn't exactly set the world on fire in his very brief stint in the big leagues but without him there's no one to spell Beltre... so no matter what he 's going to be on the 25 man roster, right? I hate sticking young players in the bench but I don't see any way around it. I guess he will platoon some with Moreland at 1B.... but bottom line is we are going to have at least 1 rookie bat in that lineup... and possibly 2 with Profar. Throw in Martin and you have 3 guys with very litttle experience hitting big league pitching. Wash won't like that 1 bit.
If someone wants to crunch numbers and show me how Bourn will fit in to our projected payroll I might consider reading posts that advocate signing him.
Until then, its naive wishful thinking because it isn't going to happen. I forsee any budget surplus we may have will be saved until the deadline to take on salary in a trade.
So many things to say, so forgive me if I miss a point or two.
Basically, I'll just start with saying, the Rangers are not going to sign Bourn for the simple reason that he will not fit in the budget. You're offering 4-years/$70M (works out to about $17.5M per year, and the Rangers have roughly $6M to spend (at a maximum). Sure, they could backload his contract, and then they'll have much, much less to offer to future players.
Secondly, no, Gentry/Martin is not the same as Michael Bourn. They're a better alternative, and here's why: Gentry & Martin offer a platoon advantage, which is obviously going to lead to an inflated average. Gentry has elite speed with fantastic defense. Martin has great defense that hasn't really turned "superb" yet, but we'll see...there's a chance it could as he is still young. Gentry and Martin are both really quick on the bases, but no, they're not going to steal 40 bags. I find this really overrated, and your statement "you're putting a runner in scoring position every time Beltre and Berkman come to bat" is an over-exaggeration that makes it hard to even listen to your point. No player is going to have an OBP of 1.000, and it's not like Bourn's lighting up the OBP world, at .339. Gentry's OBP last year was .367. Martin's OBP in AAA last year was .422.
So in summary, the Rangers would save about $70M dollars. They'd have young players with great defense, capable of stealing around 20-30 bases combined. They'd have a higher OBP in my opinion, and with Martin's bat, you're going to get a lot more SLG than Bourn (Martin .610 last year in AAA, Bourn .365 career SLG). The Rangers would save their 1st round pick, and they'd save between $1-2 Million in their draft pool money.
One last thing is, Bourne will be 35 or so, depending on the contract you're offering him. I'd much rather have a 29 year old Martin making ~$5M (if I have that right) than a 35 year old Bourne making $17.5-25M, depending on how you structure the contract. Do you remember the Michael Young contract???
Bourn is a good player, but there is absolutely no reason the Rangers should sign him.
Why does the original poster believe that Profar and Olt will start the year at AAA?
Apparently they will?
Why do you think that?
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