What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
If they're not starting, it makes a ton of sense from the business side. Gains an extra year for Profar and depending how long Olt is down, an extra year for him too. No matter how much people will bitch about the bench, this makes sense. Although, for selfish reasons, I would love to see Profar.
Not sure I fully understand why the signing of Berkman affects JP's role. Berkman can DH, Profar can play second, Kinsler at first and Moreland as bench OF/IF.
Otherwise, Moreland is locked in as an everyday player.
Smart move, gives them both the opportunity to play full time, which they won't get in Arlington. Yet.
P1 Stefen, I belive the service clock on both has already started, regardless of how long they are sent down. But I may be wrong.
I think this statement was thrown out there to let the other trade teams understand the Rangers do not have to trade the farm for any reason. The Rangers have options.
@AlanIf Profar is in the minors for 6 weeks, we gain an extra year of control. That should definitely happen. Olt, I'm not sure how about.
If Olt can't make the 2013 version of the Rangers he should have been leveraged to bring in another talent. He's 24 years old and will be 25 in August. To put that in perspective, he's older than Elvis Andrus. If he's not capable of breaking the roster this year, then when? I'm beginning to think he should have been moved as his perceived value is likely to decline from what it was last August.
@Alan Elmore............ said......
But I may be wrong.
You don't hear that here very often. How refreshing
I am probably going to get the details of how this works wrong, but here goes:
Since Profar and Olt were only up for some of the year last year, if they are down for the same amount of time this year and the sum of the time they spent with the team last year and the time they will spend with the team this year is less than a full season, then that only counts as 1 year of service, rather than multiple years like many are thinking. So while their service clock was started, unless they are with the Rangers the full year, then they have not lost a full year of service yet.
@MrMan - 2 things.
1. Olt would be in the majors on the vast majority of other teams. The Rangers happen to have one of the best 3rd basemen in the game and thus Olt is blocked at the position where he has the most value. He is certainly "capable of breaking the roster," but JD is saying he would be better served getting every day at bats in AAA.
With that said,...
2. They are trying to trade him just as you suggest, but only want to giv ehim up for an impact player such as Upton. Hopefully your wish of him being traded comes true because if it does we'll definitely have an impact player to show for it.
MrManI don't think Olt not making the 2013 roster would be any suprise at all in fact I think he would be our starting 3rd baseman this yr if it wern't for Beltre. I mean you have a gold glove at 3rd and the guy behind him should be traded because he can't make the starting roster???
How quickly we forget at one time we had "too many" catchers and needed to trade them for other positions.
I agree with ozzie33: "I think this statement was thrown out there to let the other trade teams understand the Rangers do not have to trade the farm for any reason. The Rangers have options."
It is a good problem for the Rangers to have that is for sure. When you have this many good players and no place to play them that is a good problem to have. Of course to me Kinsler is expendable. But I understand, the logic of trading Andrus as well, I don't agree with it but I understand it. I also think Martin need sot be rolled out as the everyday CF. Then we need to plug the holes in LF or RF with younger players or more impact players. As well as finding the good young catcher then your lineup is set for the foreseeable future.
I agree with MrMan on Olt. The typical hitter peaks at age 26-27. At some point, Olt has got to play in Arlington.
I understand the idea of waiting until May to bring up Profar in order to gain the extra year of control. But the reality is that once the season starts, absent an injury or Moreland being just a complete disaster at 1B, I don't see the Rangers making a dramatic change to their infield to bring in Profar. If Profar doesn't start the season in Arlington, I'm not sure that he will contribute much this season.
The whole basis is that it is time for Mitch. With Berkman playing everyday at DH, with limited time in the field [playing in NL park games], Moreland will be the everyday first baseman, this puts Kinsler back where he belongs at second [before he even lathers up his firstbaseman's glove]. And totally sets the infield. Berkman's signing also affects the outfield because it locks Cruz in right and sets the outfield.. If everything goes full on, then Olt and Profar do not get full time reps, and the thinking is better they play full time then set in Arlington with may be 100 at bats for the season. ALL THIS IS BASED ON EVERY THING GOES PERFECTLY IN SURPRISE, THE ODDS IN THAT 0.01%. Though Olt and Profar would make a stronger bench, the Rangers look upon both as full time regulars and need the 500 at bats to stay sharp. It has little to do with the service clock starting, especially for a 24 year old, though in Profar's case it could help in 2019 [and if any team could plan, project, and forecast that far in the future they would win every World Series] IF they are not on the 25 then who?Solarte makes a good utility inf/of option, but currently is only an invitee, . Gentry is the 4th outfielder, Soto #2 catcher.. That leaves Beltre, Borbon and Garcia left on the 40. Engel and Leury fit in the same Category as Jurickson. This leaves Borbon , so look for a trade [may even involve Julio, possibly to the Mets for Wilmer Flores] or one more free agent signing for a utility player like Jason Bartlett, Alex Gonzalez or Freddy Sanchez. Odds are still in favor of Olt if not also Profar on the opening 25. But for the moment go with: Soto, Solarte, Borbon and Gentry as the bench: creating a batting order of: Kinsler-Andrus-Beltre / Berkman-Pierzynski-CRUZ / Murphy-Moreland-Martin. Strong lineup with weakness that it groups righties at the top and three lefties at the bottom.
Maybe starting Profar at AAA is a prelude to dealing Elvis at the deadline?
Honestly this makes me very sad. Profar was the part of the season I was excited for. What's left now is not getting me psyched.
What Scooby said. Maybe it's the right move for now in terms of service time, etc., but I was pumped about a full season of Profar. I guess we'll see what happens.
I called this: http://www.bbtia.com/forum/post/2043511 @Les you have certainly softened your stance compared to when I proposed it. You did say that they should stay in the minors if only looking at 100 ab's which is where you are putting them now, but you said before they would get 300-450, and Profar maybe 600. Why the sudden change in projection? Here's what JD is looking at is two guys that have no significant time above AA where neither guy hit .300, and no time in AAA. Also, it's not as if either one was ever on fire when they got their call up short of Profar's first ab homer. They still have to develop, and as JD said if they aren't going to be everyday guys they need to be somewhere they are, and the fact is there isn't an everyday player that you can look at, and say they will definitely give us more production. Also, GM's do think about the clock starting, which is why Trout didn't start the year with the Angels.
@P1 Stefen Major props for staying consistent with your feelings.
Colt, I would play Profar on a regular basis even if I had to play him in right field. But The Rangers are not at this moment. There is a lot of time and changing from here to Opening Day, and can not even rule out Olt and Profar being in the starting lineup. I do consider the point of worring about when his clock starts ticking is pointless, even recognizing the game has changed a lot since Curt Flood, is still not even a thought. But what is, if he is to BE wasted and not get his at bats by riding pine, then the only other choice is regular play at Round Rock. Wash will go with Moreland,[ who I think on a full time basis will be very solid ], Cruz in right, Berkman at DH AND AJP behind the plate on a near full time basis. This simply does not create enough at bats for them. Even if I would personally go with a bench of : Soto, Olt, Profar and Gentry the Rangers current plan does not. So who can be utility, it does not leave enough true options on the current 40. Some have suggested Garcia, but he will be tried at centerfield this year, and therefore should return to Frisco. The choices then become Beltre and Borbon. Engel could be as I have posted before the surprise at Surprise. I am also high on Solarte as a super utility, but he is only an invitee, and is mediocre on defense in the infield or outfield. A entertaining name that can play both infield and outfield even at 6'5" and 245# is Michael Morse, who just became available when LaRoche signed with the Nats. The Rangers were looking for another bat and the Nats want a relief pitcher. A Morse for Scheppers and Borbon could fit both teams needs. Morse however would probably take over at left, but could back up Beltre at third, when in crisis mode, This would then push unfortunately Murphy back to #4 outfielder,although probably with his normal 400+ at bats.So a question for you Colt, SHOULD THE RANGERS GO AFTER MORSE, NOW THAT HE IS AVAILABLE? A sidebar to this proposed trade is that Borbon, though not a MLB regular, would fit for the Nats as a #4 outfielder, and thereby make it to the Majors, which I feel he has earned, even is a lifetime .284 major league hitter, though on a limited 215 games basis.
@les, think we are starting to see eye to eye now, though I still don't agree with trying to use Olt and Profar as utilities. That's not who they are. I do think something has to be done with Olt, and would be surprised to seem him a Ranger much longer. As for Morse, YES they should go after Morse. I've been hoping for a couple of years now that they would go after him since the Nats don't need him. Also, the Rangers must trade Borbon if they have no plans of him becoming a starter. I feel really bad for Borbon because he has really had a raw deal from Wash and somewhat from the fans. He is a very good player. He had a little slump in his big league career, and fans started to gripe because apparently it's unacceptable to not be perfect. If the Ragers don't trade Borbon that will be a big failure to invest what they did in him, and then get nothing in return because if I recall correctly he's out of options after this year. I would package Borbon, Murphy and Scheppers for Morse. I'd rather Gentry be the fourth outfielder than Murphy.
Colt, do not say it to loud, but I agree about Borbon the forgotten. Unless traded, again questions on the new players' contract, I believe he becomes a free agent as soon as the Rangers take him off the 25. Going to the Nats would be ideal for him. For Morse, Borbon and Scheppers is to less the more it is considered, and tossing in Murphy is too much. Plus it would make Murphy a part time player, very unfair for someone who has worked to hard for the Rangers. If they trade him, it would be to a team he could play close to regularly. FOs seldom do such a thing, have a true interest and concern for an individual player, but they do make rare exceptions. I can even see this had happened with MY, meaning the Rangers collected a list of teams needing a starting infielder, ie MY, and called him to say who do you want to play for, probably was a short list but was a choice. A 10 and 5 situation often drives this concern, and though Murph is not there yet, he is headed in that direction. Back to Morse, the Nats want a lefty reliever, sub Kirkman for Scheppers.
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