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Question for everybody... I've been debating this with my friends and thought it would be interesting to see what others thought.
Do you think momentum exists in baseball and other sports? Announcers love to use the term, players always use it, but does it exist?
Or is it just luck in a SSS? Or are momentum and luck in a SSS synonymous?
My personal stance is that for the most part it doesn't. I've seen too many times when someone says, "we're going to carry this momentum into the next half/series" only to look completely flat. I've seen many teams have consecutive 1-2-3 innings, gain defensive "momentum" and then give up 5 runs the next. I believe that one game/series/week is a SSS, and when one side gets lucky, it's dubbed as "momentum." I don't think that two players in front of you getting a hit magically increases your probability to getting a hit. When three players in a row get a hit, that's luck, not momentum.
I don't have any evidence to back it up, but I believe if someone did a study over momentum changing events and what happened afterwards, there would be just as many rallies and fizzles.
What's your opinion?
Luck, Momentum, a feeling. Yes it's real but it has more to do with the state of mind of a player or team. Like when Josh was Crushing the ball our player are amped up and giving it 110% and the other team gets that it's not our day look in their eyes and just kind of goes thru the motions. In the Marines we would use "shock and awe" basicly gave the enemy the feeling it didn't matter what you do today you can't win so run or die!!! When you do that enough either in sports or war you get a reputation and that reputation leads other teams to expect the worst which gives you the edge and I guess you could call that momentum. What it really does is makes every team feel like they have to have their "A" game and they press which leads to mistakes and they start to fall apart. Is that Momentum I don't know I guess you can call it that and sometimes that starts out as luck maby that's a HR or a seeing eye single but yes it's real.
Momentum is about as legitimate as leadership.
Ahhhh, Eric, leadership is one of the best things you can have in the clubhouse! But the player must be respected and not felt embarrassed for such as MY was last year. He got it done years past but true leaders fall hard when they are done because they have the same heart that made them a player and leader. They cannot bring themselves to say enough is enough.
In my opinion momentum is based on confidence, which is very real. You can't assign a value to it so a lot of folks struggle with it.
It was on display early last October in Oakland. Guess what team had it...
I don'n know if it is as prominent in the major levels in sports (as I've never played pro ball and cant really give an answer) I do though, as I assume several of us do in high school/college ball. Momentum certainly plays a factor. Thats why if i team scores 9 runs in a game they probably didn't score one run an inning. They probably strung a couple hits together, got some momentum and scored some runs. I've also countless times seen an offense hot and the pitching coach walking up to the mound, stopping the hitters momentum, and the pitcher returning to the mound mowing them down.
"MO", "Clutch", "In the Zone" and the opposite of all, "Hitting the Wall".It's all the BLACK MATTER of performance.
We know LUCK has a formula:The residual matter from hard work & strong effort.
For me, to ask if there is such a thing as momentum is to ask if there is such a thing as any psychological aspect to sports, and the answer to that is a vehement yes. As a person in the mental health field my career is and will be based on the power of the mind in concert with science to manifest change in a person's life and I don't see how that's any different on the athletic field. I deal with variables that aren't necessarily quantifiable and I think that people that don't "believe in momentum" also aren't big on the "it" factor when evaluating quarterbacks or other non-quantifiable variables.
For my money, any Rangers fan only has to look back to Game 6 to see what momentum can do. The Rangers were finished before they even played Game 7, and I believe Adrian Beltre said that. The Cards had all the momentum and the Rangers could have stepped it up and even made an attempt getting a few runs off Carpenter in the first inning but Harry couldn't stem the tide of that offense.
Another quick thought:
The original poster said that he has seen so many times when momentum was supposed to be in place only to see it fizzle out. I think my question would be, "How many times does it need to happen to show existence?" If the question is simply "Does it exist?" then you only need evidence of it once to say yes. If the question is more broad along the lines of "how do you quantify momentum if it does exist?" then I think you can get more of a debate on that.
Great thread, by the way.
yes, but momentum can also be defined as confidence with talent. I see it all the time even in my golf game. It takes talent first, someone, again in golf, who has a 20 handicap can have all the momentum he/she wants and will still not out shoot that 5 handicaper. Momentum applies even more so at the professional level of team sports because of a near level playing field. The old saying, which you can hear in the locker room, "who wants it more." But, momentum can in football be lost with the next hit that takes the qb or rb out / or in baseball, the next starting pitcher. But it does go back to confidence. So MOMENTUM is not so much a physical reality as it is an emotional or mental reality.
Anyone that doesn't think team leadership is real, never played a team sport. It's not even really a question.
@leswell if the mind controls the body, then it certainly becomes physical.Not exactly momentum, but I've seen a 6ft 180# ave guy lift a 4500lbcar off a victim in a crash. That was amazing. When the spiirit calls?
I once was sitting at A&W Root Beer and threw a flat corn dog sticktowards the hanging tray... missed, but it stuck perfect between thetight rubber inserts of the rolled down window. Weird- I can't forget that.
Anyone that doesn't think team leadership is real, never played a team sport. It's not even really a question.
Oh you funny. You got any more funny jokes?
Well, boys ... I haven't a thing to say. Played a great game...all of you. Great game.
(He tries to smile.) I guess we just can't expect to win ‘em all. (Rockne pauses and says quietly). I'm going to tell you something I've kept to myself for years -- None of you ever knew George Gipp. It was long before your time. But you know what a tradition he is at Notre Dame...
(There is gentle, faraway look in his eyes as he recalls the boy's words). And the last thing he said to me -- "Rock," he said - "sometime, when the team is up against it -- and the breaks are beating the boys -- tell them to go out there with all they got and win just one for the Gipper...
(Knute's eyes become misty and his voice is unsteady as he finishes). I don't know where I'll be then, Rock", he said - "but I'll know about it - and I'll be happy."
There is a hushed stillness as Rockne and the crowd of boys look at each other. In the midst of this tense silence, Rockne quietly says "Alright," to the men beside him, and his chair is wheeled slowly out of the dressing room.
PLAYER # 12: Well, what are we waiting for?
With a single roar, the players throw off their blankets and rush through the doorway.
@ericIt's very similar to a "charge in line" and the "advancement of troops" towards the enemy line.When the command is given by CO, there IS a large amount of confidence and bravado felt.
Sports and War are very similar, at a high level. If you've experienced one or both, you'd agree.Fixed bayonets is a whole different level in bravado or momentum. You own that moment hard.
I usually take issue with those who try to compare sports with war. They aren't the same thing. Perhaps in the abstract, metaphorical sense, but as far as which side gets compensated with more money and which side has the potential of losing their life, it's not comparable.
Leadership doesn't account for any wins. In the same way, momentum isn't carried from one half-season to the next, or a strong finish into the next year. Baseball is all about each game, each inning, each batter, each pitch.
@ericI'm only speaking from experience, which is how I form my opinion.Take issue as you will. With all do respect; again, if you have not experienced either, you're only exposing a view, with no credibility.
No, they are not the same thing, but I assure you the intensity can be most similar. The butter flies in your gut are'nt much different.The adrenaline is much the same also. "The Art of War", is a muchread book, by Generals and Ball Mangers- an ever useful knowledge.
So eric, move onward to something you understand. Like stats, etc.
Charisma and Leadership are real. History leaves many examples of mind over matter. What the intangible things people try to define are reaching for I believe is when one or a group of people have a mindset that does not make them AS prone to accepting failure or mistakes so brings the collective whole into a more clarified focus.
One of the ones I particularly enjoy is Atilla leading his men on horses from the steppes of Asia and leading them across earth's largest landmass and conquering those in their swath. By all measurement they should have had a very disadvantageous time of it, with the weariness of travel, unfamiliarity of terrain, introduction to different biosphere and the allergens/bacteria/virus that overcome men and lesser quality of armor and weapon smithing. Yet, they did it, and Atilla must have had that #leadership that is hard to quantify but I admit I find it impossible to deny the existence of. Momentum is a direct product of leadership raising the morale of a collective group and instilling them winning mindset and fostering the environment where people feel compelled to give the best of their selves. Its a rare commodity indeed, and lots of poseurs that don't actually have it to the true extent as would be ideal.
@ericBy the way, I do read all your inputs and do enjoy & agree(mostly).So much so, I go to your blog often. Hope you stay the course withyour vision & integrity. Be true to thine self...
No, I've never been to war, and I don't plan to. But, to be reasonable, I have a hard time believing the butterflies feel the same when you're making millions of dollars to hit or throw a baseball as compared to fighting for your life. Call me crazy on that one.
I'm not saying you're wrong or anything. Again, opinions based on experience. I'm happy you acknowledge the concept, and I'm not being condescending at all. That's one thing I have to be thankful for when it comes to America; I don't have to throw my life away in the military if I don't want to. That's what my dad did.
But don't get me wrong here. I use stats to justify my stances, but I have played before. I played catcher. I was nothing special; I had a pretty solid glove and arm, so-so batting average and drew a ton of walks. Played in some big games. I've competed against Tyler Chatwood and Matt Davidson. Was even a co-captain my senior year. OOZING with #leadership, but it's not like I was one of the 4 or 5 best players on my team.
Yep I savvy. Honestly, to broaden this input and to touch base on the money aspect... I don'tthink many think about the money on the field at all. That plays no faction with the experience.
Actually, I think all that we are talking about is hidden deep in our gene pool. The basic irgeto survive. You don't go through 1000's of years, without that taking charge in ones life, whetherit's against a Sabretooth Tiger or a Detroit Tiger.
Losing is not in the natural element that overcomes our ID.It's innate and within all and every man & woman. The Strong Will to Survive... there is a warrior gene.Even something simple that we all conjur up, probably weekly... a 2nd wind, has it's roots of survival.It's a wake up call to be/do better, alert and to carry on witha mind-set on success... to win, to survive.
It's an inner confidence or strength we can pull up, when needed. Alpha Types are in all species. Leaders.It's INNATE.
Now we're talking about diametrically opposing ideas. I'm saying leadership and momentum don't translate into wins. Wins are caused by talent, execution, and tactical strategy.
Hmm, well I was trying to stay close to "topic"... does "IT" exist?We got off on tangents, which is still root of the "IT" question.Does "IT" equate to wins, success or positive advancement?
There's the crux.
I'm betting that the Sabretooth won a few times,but with intelligent strategy & perserverance, the tribe won mostly.
Game Seven of 2011 WS, was a great view of true existance... the Cardinals- The Alpha Team won out, with "Major Mo".Totally "In the Zone". Broke my heart. I felt totally dominated.
Maybe Don Larsen's Perfect World Series Game is an example?
Confidence breeds enthusiasm. Enthusiasm cause hormone secretion. Hormones (like adrenaline) give the body power and, when you boost that power, you succeed better in physical situations.
Some other hormones (I know the name, but can't think of it), increase your awareness and reflexes. These also are caused by conflict that, when brought about by confidence, also gives you a greater chance at success...
Yeah. Momentum is very real. Once you get on a roll, your confidence increases and secretion of these hormones exacerbates your roll. It's the down time in between where you have the time to think about what you've done then try to "re-invent" that feeling you just had is where you get into trouble and the opposite CAN happen.
Fear is the opposite of confidence and causes its own set of hormonal secretions.
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