What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
I know with how the offseason has gone everyone thinks there is a youth movement afoot for the Rangers this season. My question is this, are Profar and Olt both really going to start the season in the Majors? The trading of Michael Young was seen by many as saying they are commiting to Profar playing this season. Some people said it was just a salary dump, which I never took much stock in seeing as how the Rangers are still paying 10 million of the 16 million he's owed. That to me just shows that front office lost so much faith in him last season they would rather pay him to play somewhere other than Arlington because they can't convince Washington to keep him out of the lineup.
But, trading Young doesn't make Profar an everyday player. It makes him the utility player. Would you really want to the start the clock on a guy who everyone thinks is the next big thing for the organization? I don't feel there's a need to start him in the Majors, and start the clock on him. It seems wasteful to me. Even if he's playing everyday that means someone is moved out of position, and thus losing value. Most likely that person is Kinsler, and with the signing of Berkman becoming apparent that would leave moreland rotting on the bench. Another possibility would be to move kinsler to the outfield, but he's not anymore valuable as a hitter out there than Murphy or Cruz, one of which would be rotting on the bench. Obviously the Rangers could trade Moreland, Cruz or Murphy, but none of them would bring anything back in value that would warrant that kind of a move. Therefore the Rangers should just move ahead with Profar starting in the minors.
The same question is to be asked of Olt. Everyone thinks he will start the year in the bigs, and split time with Moreland. Why start the clock on him now though? Moreland isn't bad at first, and Olt isn't so good right now that he's any kind of improvement over Moreland. I've heard some people say to play Olt in the outfield, but he's definitely not any better than anyone already slated to play out there, and clearly Olt can't play at his natural position. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason to get his clock going either.
I know everyone is excited about the future of Rangers baseball, but now isn't the time for it. There is still an excellent group of veterans that are capable of leading the Rangers back to the playoffs with a little youthful infusion later in the season when it doesn't cost the Ranges a more productive year of these guys career later in their prime. Don't sacrifice a year of their prime for a mediocre year of youth. Also, neither player has even played in triple A. They both spent time with the big club last year, but didn't get a chance to prove anything. They need to start in triple A, and show that they are truly ready to play in the bigs. I'm not saying they need to spend the whole season there, but the Rangers aren't in dire need of them to be up at the start of the year. In fact they really aren't in need for them to start the year with them at all.
I predict that come spring training, Profar will be an everyday player on the Rangers. I just have a feeling the Upton thing is going to come through and Elvis will be adios. I don't necessarily like that, but I think it will happen, and I can in some ways see why.
However, we don't have a good utility IF, and having Profar up the middle and Olt spelling the corner IF, if they could each get 200-250 AB, I think that would be worth it. If Profar is lighting it up during the first half, a trade for Elvis at the deadline would be possible, too.
So you're saying you're fine burning 600 ab's for olt and profar in their prime 6 years from now for 200-250 ab's from them as rookies? That just doesn't make sense to me when there are other, better options already on the team. Also, why is everyone still mentioning Andrus for Upton? Not going to happen because Arizona already traded for a shortstop, and if JD wanted to pull the trigger on that one he would have given an indication before the Diamondbacks traded for that SS.
IMO The trading of MY and paying 10M of his salary was more of a Billy Beane move. If MY isn't here, Wash can't play him. He will be forced to play his younger guys. It was a complete waste to bring Profar and Olt up last year and watch MY play 2nd, 3rd and SS. Wash lived and died with his veterans, even with an 8 game lead. Now they will be a new team. Hamilton, as great as he was the first two months, did not have his head on straight since. The error in the outfield was the highlight of the same focus he had at the plate. When Hamilton's head is on, he is lights out. When he goes thru the motions, it is difficult to watch. Gentry and Martin were options that did not happen.
@Rangerbourne I like the Olt and Profar platoon to spell the corners and up the middle. It is a very long season as we witnessed last year. The veterans do get worn out. I think they could get more that 250 ABs. Why have another year of a bench that never plays?
Olt and Profar need to play every day. Whether that's on the Ranger roster or in the minors, they need to keep getting at bats. Neither needs to be on the 25-man roster unless they project to receive 3+ PA per game. If that means moving Moreland somewhere to get Kinsler to first so that Profar can play second every day, do it. If that means holding Olt in the minors and only moving him up in the case of an injury to a CIF, do it. Just give the young guys their reps.
Colt, the Rangers will go with the best 25. Take a close look at the current 40 man roster, especially the infield, the only name not to make the 25 will be Leury Garcia [ who the Rangers are going to try out as a centerfielder] ; now take a look of the available free agents and tell me an upgrade over Olt and Profar. The best utility infielder that could fit they do already have in Yangervis Solarte, who the Rangers re-signed, but also gave him little more than the proverbially cup of coffee last Surprise paid one-month vacation. If Profar just has a routine Surprise he is playing against Houston the 31st of March. Olt is a given; there simply is no one else to back up Beltre, unless you want the Rangers to sign Figgins or Inge, I hope not. I know there is absolutely no hint of this, but I am convinced that Profar could play right field. Above all else, Profar is a ball player, if he was not making the Rangers as their next sure fire shortstop, he would be in the starting 5 of a Cub, Red Sox or Yankee pitching staff.Old saying, 'piece of cake' for Profar to play right. But then there is Cruz, after Berkman signing as the DH, in right. So Jurickson may just be the MY of 2013. An Upton trade, as Ranger pointed to, for Andrus seems to solve many issues, just that JD can not wait forever to commit, else Justin is in right field for the Mariners.
@les It just doesn't make sense to bring Profar and Olt up to be backups. If they are the best 25 that doesn't mean they should be up. If Beltre gets hurt then Olt will get moved up for the next game. He doesn't already have to be on the 25 man to get moved up in case of injury. It's a waste to not get these kids AB's in their formative years. Like drsmack said it does them no good to be on the 25 man if they're not getting AB's because that doesn't help them. Therefore, just because they are two of the 25 best doesn't mean they should be on the roster. If they are one of the best at their position, and will play everyday then that's fine. Otherwise they would be wasting their first year of their contract, and for what? Only because the fans want to see them up there. There's a reason that teams sign utility guys, and that's so they can develop young players in the minors, and not waste them sitting on the bench, and using up controllable seasons.
^^^^ This a thousand times.
You put Kinsler at first when Profar plays second against LHP and up to half of RHP. You play Moreland at first with Profar on bench against half of RHP. Whoever does better you give them the more time against RHP.
You play Olt at COF against LHP instead of Murphy as the likelihood is that Murphy will revert against LHP, and you play Olt at COF instead of Cruz against half of RHP. Cruz wasn't very good against RHP last year, even bad.
If they show they can hit they are playing 50 to 60 percent of the time and the downside is that Moreland only plays about 30 to 40 percent of the time. Keep in mind that Moreland was not real awesome last year and that Profar and Olt are better talents. If Moreland has something he hasn't showed yet by all means, show it, and beat the young guys out.
This all works great with a Gentry/Martin platoon in Center, a AJP/Soto platoon at C, and a near full time Berkman at DH.
I see your points, but I think we may as well start the clocks on Profar and Olt. I think it makes us a better team. Furthermore, this is the ideal time to experiment with them considering we just lost Napoli, Young, and Hamilton and are in need of an infusion of youthful energy. Those guys are competitors, not your average prospects, more mature in my view.
If Olt and Profar are on the opening day roster does that mean that their clock starts regarding the 7 years?
If not how long do they have to be up to count for one year on the clock?
Colt, three points: 1. A worry over the 'clock is ticking' on players the Front Office know will make it as opposed to may make it is of so little concern as not be even a thought. The worry in your point is over a player who is loaded with talent, but would take years to have full realization. The Rangers actually have one, and he may make a large impact and impression in Surprise this Spring, aka Engel Beltre. I would whole heartily agree with you, if they were relegated to 100 abs. 2. Both Olt and Profar are on a team that traditionally goes with only 13 players and 12 pitchers, they will get the 300 to 450 at bats, and that is if they are not playing regularly full time. I can even see Profar in the 600+ range, and that may be more then he should handle in his first year. The chances of a Spring Training injury to the other 11 are so high to almost be a given. Happens every year. and 3. Unless you make a trade for a player, the Rangers tried hard last July but Scutaro ended up with the Giants, you are choosing between Figgins and Inge as back up at third and if a game is on the line, offensively or defensively, I rather have Olt at third, or for that matter even Profar. So in the final analysis, Olt and Profar are by far the best option, and no one purposely go into battle without their best options,
Olt needs to be at AAA playing everyday if he's only getting marginal playing time. Profar will be at 2nd if Elvis is still here with Kinsler as the super utility. Kinsler was chomping at the bit to play 3rd when Beltre was injured last year. He came up as a SS, so he definitely has the arm and his defense can't be worse than Young. Using a rotation of Beltre/ Kinsler at 3B, Andrus/Profar as SS, Profar/Kinsler at 2B, and Kinsler/Moreland/Puma at 1B would be more than fine. Olt playing everyday at AAA will both increase his trade value for other teams and increase his value with us since Beltre has a minimum of 3 years left. Olt does not need to be here now.
With that said, lets see how Spring Training and the rest of the offseason pans out. There's a ton of time left.
I see both Profar and Olt in AAA. I see Miclat, Garcia or maybe Solarte as the utility infielder, because it does not matter if Miclat or Solarte is wasted. Garcia isnt real important either, but is more versatile than Miclat or Solarte, and Garcia's trade value would increase a lot if he were even mildly successful in MLB.
I am hoping for Garcia.
Garcia would be useful at 2nd, SS, 3rd, CF, RH or LH pinch hitter since he is both, and pinch runner extraordinaire and defensive replacement every game.
I think you may be selling Leury Garcia short. JD has already said that he has the talent to be a super utility infielder which would include 3rd base and that he is talented enough to backup all 3 outfield positions. He will be one of the biggest surprises of Spring Training. My guess is that now Kinsler will be moved to 1st base and Profar will start the season at 2nd base unless Andrus is traded for Justin Upton. Now that Berkman is signed to DH that could mean that Cruz, Murphy, Moreland or Olt may be packaged along with Andrus with Upton ending up in RF. The Rangers system is loaded with middle infield prospects like Profar, Garcia, Sardinas, Odor and Solarte so I think a trade of Andrus is still possible before the season begins. Andrus has alot of trade value right now and he will bolt in two years for Free Agency like most other Boras clients do.
I could go with Solarte, even suggested him last year, and he would fit into the new program, ie improved contact. Josh actually led the Majors last year with most strikes without contact, and Nap was not far behind. So if there is a positive in losing Hamilton and Napoli and gaining a AJP, Berkman and even Solarte that is it. Solarte can play both infield except first and the outfield. He is still young, 25, is mediocre on defense, which may be why he has yet to have mlb experience, but is a terrific line drive contact hitter, had but 44 Ks in 568 plate appearances last year at AAA. Garcia will not be on the 25 on 31 March, even though he is a good option, because the Rangers want to try him in center field and hope to turn him into a Michael Bourne.. So he probably for that reason not even play at AAA but return to Frisco. If Kinsler can back up Beltre at third, that would be a very good viable option, but it means keeping Profar on the 25. Another option for the 25 is a 5th outfielder, and there are options: Julio Borbon, who has demonstrated he can hit at mlb level but Wash totally does not trust him as an outfielder; another potential of interest is Engel Beltre. He could actually be ready to contribute, is closest now to a 5-tool player in the outfield for the Rangers. If he could just get his head into the game, seems to always shoot himself in the foot. But as much as I like to see Solarte succeed, he is really due a chance, he is not on the 40-man; but Olt and Pofar are, and are still by far the best options.
AND THIS IS WHAT SPRING TRAINING IS ALL ABOUT, TIME TO SORT THINGS OUT.
I've always been a believer in a deep bench. Having Olt, Profar, and Moreland give the Rangers the depth the IF needs for the marathon that is a regular season. Screw "starting the clock." That issue pales in light of the need for the best players at the best price to be on your ML roster.
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