What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
If you were Rangers would go to the Rockies and make them an offer for Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonazalez that they couldn't refuse? For sure some people are going to be very negative about the whole idea. But they would have said the same thing about the Toronto and Miami trade. So here goes nothing Tulo and Cargo from the Rockies for a package of Moreland, Olt, Sardinas, Perez and Buckel. That is the Rangers #2,3,4 and 7 prospects plus Moreland. So guy's would you do that? Would the Rangers? Would the Rockies? Have I lost my mind? Don't answer that last! Remember Tulo and Cargo are both locked up long term. So go ahead let me have it!
Colorado would do that deal before you spit out Buckel's name...
Colorado would not do that deal before you spit out Olt's name..you're talking about two young franchise players who are locked up for a while with a great deal of money invested in both. basically the only attractions for rockies fans. and you wanna headline a deal for both of them, with moreland, olt, perez and buckel?Any discussion for just one of these players probably starts with andrus or profar, even though tulo is a ss
i mean, even if that they'd take it, would you wanna take on both their mega contracts? i love the enthusiasm tho ric, not bashing just giving my take
Lifetime Tulo has a .921 home OPS versus .814 away. The OBP splits are .380/.347. In 2012 the OPS and OPB splits are marred by SSS (he actually hit better on the road in 2012). His 2011 OPS and OBP splits were .948/..881 and .381/.362. These are much better splits than those for Cargo.
I guess the problem is where do you put him? I only see a spot for Tulo if you trade Elvis or Ian. He also has some pretty hefty long term contract obligations.
Has tulo's value really fallen that far? I know he has a huge contract but you are talking about the player considered by many the best ss in baseball when healthy. You do this deal in a heartbeat if you are the rangers and use Andrus and/or profar to go get another power bat and your ace.
I can't envision a world where Colorado trades tulo without including profar plus
@aggiecurt,Tulo has a pretty rich contract:2013 10mm2014 16mm2015-2019 20mm per year2020 15mm team option with 4mm buyout
He has earned his money, looking like a steady 6 WAR player.
I wonder if COL might be having salary heartburn and might entertain an Elvis/Tulo deal straight up.
That isn't near enough. Not getting Tulo without Profar and a lot more than what is in op.
No offense OP but that deal is fairly laughable. The Rockies GM would get run out of town if he accepted that. It may not be enough for just one of them with the quality of prospects given up in other deals this winter. That being said, I'd love to see Tulo here provided we could acquire him without losing Profar or Elvis.
Where would you play Tulo, Elvis, and Profar? And who would play SS for Col? I don't see how they would trade Tulo without getting a SS in return.
JV, by not giving up Elvis and Profar I just meant keeping them out of THAT deal. I would still be in favor of working to trade one (preferably Elvis) for a TORP type guy. Move Profar to 2B for now. As Tulo gets a few more years on him, a move to 3B to replace Beltre when necessary would be a possibility. As far as who plays SS for Colorado, not sure. I'm not completely familiar with their farm. I would just love to get him without giving up those two.
Without giving up Kinsler and/or Adrian Beltre, the Rangers don't have room within their budget to make this move. Secondly, the proposed package is extremely light, even if it was for only one of those two.
Moreland is essentially a replacement-level 1st baseman; Olt is good, but not transcendent (like Profar, for instance); Sardinas has the potential of being plus-plus, but he's a good while away; Perez and Buckel are MORP's.
That's nothing near the vicinity of what Colorado would want to replace their two franchise players.
A TRIPLE hit, with one hit based on the other: hit1- Olt and Perez to Arizona for Upton, then hit2 Andrus, Murphy, Moreland, Grimm and Ramirez for Tulowitzki and Gonzalez, then for good measure Cruz to Miami for Morrison. Arizona needs to move an outfielder and still wants Olt but a little more. Colorado is making the trade to drop long term contracts, and pick up young starters that are mlb ready, in order to rebuild at the same time have at least an all star ss in return, and a solid outfielder to replace CARGO. Miami just wants to unload Morrison and need a bit of star power.
Speaking of, if you guys want to try getting creative, rather than using the same recycled names over and over, look at Baseball America or MiLB or for some of the Rangers better prospects. Martin Perez, Mike Olt, Cody Buckel, Jurickson Profar and Luis Sardinas aren't the only ones out there.
Ronald GuzmanNomar MazaraJairo BerasLewis BrinsonC.J. EdwardsJoey GalloJorge AlfaroDavid PerezRoman Mendez
ALL of this is pure fantasy, except for a strong possibility of an Upton trade.
Eric have talked up them in recent forums, even suggesting most should/ will be ready around 2016. Given those names of just 1B/OF, WHO do you see at this very early state of making the most impact on the Rangers, my money would be on Guzman, what would yours? Payoff- OCTOBER, 2016.
I like Lewis Brinson. I also like Guzman/Beras/Gallo, but so many power hitters wash out over time that it's damn-near impossible to project them. Some can't seem to make any contact as they move up, others can't play a position even at below-average capability.
I read good things on Jairo Beras, but he's such a question mark because no one knows a lot about him yet. I'll be curious to see how he does in Arizona this summer.
If I had to rank our future sluggers, it would probably go something like this:
1. Brinson2. Guzman3. Beras4. Mazara5. Gallo
I think Brinson has the highest floor, and that Gallo will struggle in terms of strikeouts as he ascends the different levels. In Hickory/2013, we could see a lineup featuring:
2. Mazara3. Guzman4. Gallo5. Brinson
and that's fucking dangerous for 21-23 year-old pitching, even if all those guys are still teenagers.
I like Brinson, for he could evolve to a 5-tool centerfielder, Guzman has by far the best swing with a degree of discipline, and could advance rapidly. Gallo by 2016 may be an up and coming left handed power pitching, touching 100+, aka Mitch Moreland but with a more potent arm, because unless he, through coaching and is own evolvement develops better plate discipline he is headed toward an Adam Dunn type. Gallo does have an incredible power game. It is, however, time for Alfaro , even Deglan, to show advancing skills if ever they are to be the Soto/ Pierzynski replacements. Alfaro looks like he has the bat, but must make huge strides behind the plate. Deglan is quite the opposite. Both are 20 or less, so there is time on their side, but both are going into their 4th years, so the clock is ticking. ALL of this really says, hang on to these prospects, and advance the Rangers through their own farm system, which has been the plan all along, and accounts for the Rangers' activity this off-season. One or two year free agent contracts OK, any greater make darn sure it is the right move.
I'm not sure Brinson could even be traded yet, can he? I thought they had to stay in your system at least one year after being drafted, but I could be wrong about that.
I think because he has been suspended and there is little to go by so far on him that Beras gets overlooked by a lot of people. I think he could possibly develop into a bigtime prospect. I think you could put him, Brinson, and Guzman all right there together as quality of prospects and not go wrong in any order right now.
Regarding teams not being able to trade prospects until a year after they are drafted, you are correct. There are loopholes, however. For instance, if a team is making a trade with us (I assume it would have to be a pretty major one), they could still ask for Gallo or Brinson or Nick Williams, they'd just have to wait until the one-year mark before they could actually be moved. It's the case of the dreaded Player To Be Named Later.
Some teams get creative with PTBNL's, as they can propose an assortment of prospects, and depending on how much production the individual relinquished generates, it ups the cost. So if player X_ performs poorly, they get a tier-3, or whatever; if they do well, they receive a tier-2 instead.
I'm sure you already knew this stuff.
As for the Rockies needing a SS back in a trade. Last year with Tulo out Josh Rutledge filed in well hitting .274 with a 775ops. Tulo's days as a SS are numbered. He will end up moving to third base for the Rockies much sooner thant you think, If the trade were to be made as proposed I would play Tulo at first base, after all he is 6'3" 215lbs. not your classic SS build. Colorado needs pitching thats where Perez and Buckel come in. Frankly, if the Rockies would consider the trade and wanted another player besides Sardinas most likely another pitcher i would still be in. The Rangers could throw out a lineup of:DH-CruzC-Pierzinski1b-Tulowitzki2b-Profar3b-BeltreSS-AndrusLF-MurphyCF-CargoRF-Kinsler
Speed, power, left/right balance and good defense what more could you ask?
Ric, that lineup is a joke. It's not going to happen.
Josh Rutledge is no solution to Tulo. His UZR was -6.4 in less than half a season last year. Extrapolated over 160 games, you're talking about one of the three most important positions on the diamond costing your team about 15 runs -- 15 runs the Rockies can't afford to give up.
This entire thread is Pipe Dream Central. You want Tulo and Cargo? You start the conversation with Profar/Olt/L. Martin/M. Perez and then move into Buckel/Grimm/Jackson, and then a PTBNL (of the Brinson/Gallo variety). The Rangers aren't going to bankrupt themselves like that. And the Rockies have no reason to sell a controllable, affordable cornerstone OF like Gonzalez, or a FACE like Tulo.
Next week on BBTiA's rundown of "Trades That Will Never Happen But We'll Create Ridiculous 'What If' Scenarios Anyway," we'll take a look at acquiring Justin Verlander, Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder from the Tigers in exchange for C.J. Edwards and a collection of meddling AA players. Will Engel Beltre be included in the deal? Will Julio Borbon be the one-tool outfielder Detroit covets? Tune in to find out!
Eric, In a league where they make block busters like the Dodgers-Red Sox last year, Toronto - Marlins this year or even Vernon Wells to the Angels two years ago. Almost anything could happen. I dont think anyone on this site would have said any of those trades would have happen. As for your examples, no! But a team like the Rockies might do anything. Th y are stuck with two big names players a deleted system and a small market budget. As I stated when i started this thread it was just for fun. If we limited posts to things that have actually happen this would be pretty boring. site. I was just asking for peoples opinion and you clearly have given yours, Just happy that we all feel free to state our opinons on this site! Have a nice day!
Well, if you're talking about blockbusters, you first need to understand the motivations of the teams in question. The Red Sox wanted to shed payroll; the Dodgers wanted to add marketability in Los Angeles. Toronto wanted to win right now; the Mets need young talent; the Marlins wanted to shed payroll. The Angels made a bonehead trade for Vernon Wells; Toronto wanted to shed payroll (back then).
Colorado has no reason to get rid of Cargo, an affordable superstar, or Tulo, who they've made their franchise player. Also, the Rangers already have two shortstops. Why do they need a third? If you want to assume Tulo gets moved off SS, well, we already have Beltre at 3rd.
I just don't see the logic in this thread. Sure, it's fun to state opinions and all, but I'll take the boring thread based on rational facts than the illogical thread based off what would be a favorable trade for the Rangers.
I think Ric is Eric's alter ego. We should combine the two and form one fun loving, egotistical fan. That is all.
Notify me of follow-up comments via email.