What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
This is just a quick post looking to solicit some constructive responses, and I'm pretty sure I already know what they will say, but I'm going to post anyway. Going into 2013 everyone is assuming that the CF position will be manned by Gentry and Martin. Understandable in that Gentry was up with the team last year, and played very well when given the chance, and the Rangers have a lot invested in Martin, and so people naturally want to see what all that money got them. My question is why is there never any mention of Borbon or Beltre? Both of them out played Martin in the minors last season, Borbon has experience in the Majors, the Rangers actually invested about the same in Borbon as Martin, and Beltre, at least at one time, was considered a top prospect. Given that they performed at least as well if not better than Martin why aren't they at least being mentioned by anyone as possible candidates for CF? I know what the first response will say, but I want to read it anyway. I don't know how many of you watched Martin play last year, but whenever I watched him he looked lazy, maybe bored as if he was very unhappy playing in the minors still.
How did they both out play Martin in the minors last season? Did you look at Martin's numbers last season in the minors and then compare them to the others?
It's just something about watching Martin play I think. I'm not as sold on him as most because he just really seems lazy to me. Beltre, ok, really didn't have a great year, but still high on the prospect list. I was just throwing him out there because I know some people on here like to talk about him. Borbon on the other hand did play extremely well in a much larger sample size than Martin last year. I know the issue people have with Borbon, but why are the Rangers holding him if they aren't going to promote him? He should be able to bring a lot of value to a trade considering he is very fast on the bases, and for a speed guy has decent power, and hits for a good average. I think the media and the fans got into his head with the defense, and it's something that can be fixed. His offensive skill set, however, is very unique, and should be valuable. I just don't know why they are holding him if they aren't promoting him.
It is MARTIN's to lose, and if he is not successful neither are the Rangers. Simply too much to replace Hamilton, so a decent production out of Martin is imperative. He may surprise if given a full chance to be the regular CF. Borbon should be on the team this year OR ELSE he is a free agent, out of options. Beltre is not ready yet, but is slowly headed in the right direction. Gentry is an excellent #4 outfielder and almost a 5-tool, unfortunately the tools missing are power and solid contact hitting.
Martin (2012 @ AAA): .359/.422/.610 (~250 PA's)Borbon (2012 @ AAA): .304/.349/.433 (~650 PA's)Beltre (2012 @ AA): .261/.307/.420 (~600 PA's)
On a pure prospect level, Martin pretty severely outclasses both other guys. If you look at Borbon and Beltre's historical minor league numbers, they each lack in the plate discipline/OBP department. Right now, neither would recoup much value outside being throw-ins in deals.
The fact is, the Rangers have a lot of outfielders who are better than them. There's the whole "Wash just doesn't like Julio Borbon" thing, and Engel Beltre has a few different anecdotes which lead one to believe he has some makeup issues.
Borbon had lower strike out rate than Martin this season, not to mention Martin was barely above 50% in stolen bases. The thing I was shocked by is I just went to check how Borbon is doing on his fielding and in his 120+ games made 2 errors and Martin made 6 in just 55 games. That can't happen at CF in the majors. That's what got Borbon sent down.
With Borbon, it wasn't so much the errors as the mistakes. And, Wash doesn't tolerate mistakes. Errors happen, but, when you throw to the wrong base, miss the cutoff man, miss signs, etc., hoping for another chance with the Wash probably won't be fruitful.
I would imagine the Rangers have been looking for someone... ANYone... to take him off their hands for the past year and a half, but no one takes Ranger cast offs. Now, if it appeared the Rangers LIKED him? That'd be a different story altogether.
Beltre, from what I've heard, has some maturity issues that he needs to address. Last report I had was he took a lot of positive strides over the past year but still has a ways to go.
Martin (and, of course, Gentry) has a much greater range for the position than Borbon; although, Julio does have CF range - it isn't in the elite class of M & G. Beltre does have that range (well... maybe not Gentry range, but elite range) so he may work his way into the conversation one day... if some of last year's crop doesn't pass him up.
Martin also has the history of having played for the Cuban national team. Most times that alone is indicative of a quality player. So, until he totally fails, he'll continue to get opportunities. And, now that Wash's hands are tied and he HAS to play SOMEONE in CF, Martin will get the chance. Gentry will platoon with him against LHPs because his ceiling of being a singles hitter doesn't translate to a Major League lineup.
Borbon is obviously more talented than Craig Gentry, for instance, and was slated to be the team's 4th outfielder in 2012 before failing to execute a sac bunt in a Spring Training game.
If we're grading out Borbon's tools on the 1-8 scale, I think they'd look something like this:
Contact -- 6Power -- 2Speed -- 6Glove -- 5Arm -- 3
If we're grading out Martin, I think it'd be more:
Contact -- 5Power -- 5Speed -- 5Glove -- 6Arm -- 6
Borbon's bat isn't close to Martin's, and Martin has a better feel defensively. Borbon beats him in the speed department, but his plate discipline really limits how often he's on base. I can see Martin slugging 30 doubles, 5 triples, and 10-15 home runs. Borbon is basically a slap single's hitter.
Gentry's batting average increased by 30 points when he was given a larger opportunity to play at the major league level. I think he is improving in a good fashion and given a full season he will become a very solid player.
Leonys Martin just better not be the next Tom Goodwin or worse...the next Damon Buford
All good stuff, and I agree that they are clearly the two who should be getting the nod, but just wondering why there was a never a conversation about it especially about Borbon.
Borbon better than Gentry? Ha! Pipe dream.
Try not to be blinded by the small sample size. Borbon is more talented than Gentry, but Gentry maximizes his ceiling, as compared to Borbon, who falls dramatically short of it.
Good, Eric did not say Borbon was better than Gentry, used the word "talented' which is something different, in a way "Talent" measures the individual baseball skill levels, and Borbon scouting reports since college has defined him as talented. Better looks at team and situations, and often measures the cerebral aspect of the game, which is more paramount at the Major League level. It even explains many a 4A player, who never seems to quite cut it at the Big time, but sometimes the light-bulb does go on. An old baseball saying 'it is a game of failure' and how a player deals and grows from that failure, measures their ultimate success. Bottom line does seem to say that Martin is the man, at least until somehow they sign Sizemore and he miraculously returns to pre-2009 form and health, which is doubtful , or Boston feels they need another one or two Rangers and trades Ellsbury to them.
You guys believe the hype and not the performance. Eventually the performance is all that matters, for example Edwin Jackson, Delmon Young, Justin Smoak.
Stop just looking at the hype and repeating things you hear. Look at performace.
Ross' performance so far is better than Perez. Gentry's far surpasses Borbon's. Scouts are full of it sometimes. Did you ever consider that they are often wrong, and then justify it by after-the-fact saying that player x did not live up to his potential? How about admitting a mistake in evaluation.
Perez may make a fine pitcher, and Borbon, gulp, may make a fine major league all star level player (ha!). The jury is certainly still out on Perez. Borbon will make a decent platoon player. Meanwhile, Gentry's defensive value, alone, projecta at 4 WAR per year, fWAR or bWAR, if he plays full time. Although he does not hit RHP as well as LHP, Gentry does field as well against RHP as he does against LHP!
Play Gentry. Do not platoon Gentry. Let Martin play full time also. If you want to let Borbon play, then unload Cruz' TEN million dollar salary and terrible defense, move Murph to DH and find a platoon partner for Borbon (Butler?).
Look at wins! Do not look at home runs only, as in lamenting loss of Hamilton and Napoli, and forget about hype from years ago that may say that so and so was "talented" if that talent doesn't produce wins.
Edwin Jackson is actually a pretty bona fide middle-to-back-end starter. He's a consistent 3.0 WAR pitcher, so lumping him in with Julio Borbon, Delmon Young and Justin Smoak doesn't really make sense.
As for your second point, scouting reports often times do fail, but that doesn't make them any less credible. Objective scouting is simply the best form of information we have to project players. Plus, each individual reacts differently to various factors of life. It should be taken into account that many players, no matter what the sport, lose much of their motivation when they start receiving huge paydays, even if it's a mere $1 million signing bonus coming out of high school. There are also injuries, poor mental makeup, a failure to adjust to adversity, etc.
Some guys have all the tools in the world, and shit happens. That's basically the gist.
As for your prolonged Robbie Ross > Martin Perez argument, I still disagree. If I had a large flaming cauldron of lava and had to off one of Robbie Ross or Martin Perez, I'm still dumping Ross. Lefted-handed relief pitchers are a dime a dozen, and left-handed potential TORP's are not. Robbie Ross may very well be a decent back of the rotation starter in a couple years, but if he is what he is right now -- a bullpen arm -- I'll still take Martin Perez, even if he's nothing more than a MORP.
Saying things like "the jury is still out" based on, what, 40.0 innings of work, seems a bit shortsighted. Ross, don't forget, has only accumulated 65.0 innings himself. That, and he's only been asked to get between 1-5 batters out at a time. Starters are exponentially greater in value than relief pitchers, and that's just never going to change.
"lefted" should be "left"
Martin needs to be given a legit shot at playing every day. He's done it at AAA, we need to find out if he's a AAAA player or a MLB player.
There is no reason at all for Gentry to not start every game in CF. Wash made a massive mistake in keeping Moreland away from LHP and it's kept him from improving. He needs to keep from making the same mistake with Gentry. He's fast enough to reach base even if his contact isn't solid.
Mitch Moreland has been in the Majors for the last 3 seasons. He has yet to prove he can hit lefties. Craig Gentry, although I love the guy, is a 4th outfielder. A platoon outfielder. Making him an every day starter exposes his offensive flaws, and weakens his overall value.
I'm fine with Martin banking 110-120 CF starts in 2013, with Gentry logging the other 40-50.
Gentry's numbers against righties aren't that bad. Still a fairly small sample size, to be sure, but his splits aren't worse than a lot of everyday players.
I'd like to see Martin get 3-4 starts a week and Gentry 2-3, as long as Martin shows improvement. If he languishes for a prolonged period of time, I think Gentry should play more.
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