What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
That should have read that Weaver has nearly twice as many innings pitched, not pitches.
No, Yu doesn't have the years yet. But I think he's well on his way to being an ace. That's why I'd take him over Weaver; I think that one day, and not too far off, Yu will be better than Weaver.
As I said before, I think Weaver is a borderline ace, and any team could find a place for him, probably in the #1 or 2 spots.
We've made our case for why we'd want Yu going forward. If you'd rather have Weaver going forward, say why. "He's a better pitcher" isn't good enough. Provide some facts and back up your opinion.
Darvish without the walks is better than any pitcher Angels have, including Weaver.Once he straightened out the Walks, then yes I agree. With walks though its probably Weaver who is a better asset.
Forget your ages. Forget all that WAR crap. Last year Weaver was a better pitcher than Yu. PERIOD. Don't care about last 5 years or next five years. If the argument was last year then it's obvious Weaver was better LAST YEAR. GEEEEZ Andy. THINK
Look at overall staff composition and team composition. I think Angels have made nice moves to bolster their rotation, hitting and defense. At this moment in time, Rangers are behind Angels and A's on paper. However, we have not played any games and injuries are a wild card. We are already one pitcher short in rotation and options are dwindling fast (with rumors that Edwin Jackson is very close to a deal with cubs).
We may embark upon a youth movement, but lost production in line up and erratic dutch and Harry's regression back to is career norms means we will have an uphill task. Last year our offense bailed us out a few times when our pitching was not good. It is going to be difficult this year for offense to score 6+ runs in a game.
Yu's numbers are misleading. Until mid-August Yu's stats reflected a young, but extremely accomplished, pitcher in his first MLB season, using a new baseball, as well. There was also persuasive evidence his strike zone was squeezed. Beginning in mid-August Yu was lights out, performing at the level of an ace more akin to a Price than a Weaver. Yu's pitching, both the good, poor, and exceptional, may fail to be statistically indeterminate because of their SSS, but no GMs in MLB other than perhaps Tower and Moore, would trade Yu for Weaver, even if their ages were identical. I would wager--not figuratively, but with cold cash--that Yu's 2013 will approximate his post August performance rather than his pre-August struggles.
One of the better baseball web sites, I believe it was either BP or Fangraphs, had a GIF enhanced article featuring the nasty efficacy of his pitching (notably his cutter), and his ability to dominate batters with the quality and variety of his pitches.
@j - That's why I said no games have been played yet. Everyone is trying to guess what happens in future and your guess is as good as mine. If you are still believing Rangers are going to win AL West, that's your opinion and I respect that. IMy heart wants them to win, however mind says otherwise.
"If the argument was last year then it's obvious Weaver was better LAST YEAR."
You have provided no evidence. This kind of statement will convince no one.
Who the hell is brad? I don't post all that often, but I do read these forums very often. With that said, although I don't always agree with them, I very much respect P1, Eric, and Andy more than some dipshit named brad arguing for others to be civil on these forums by calling those people burger flippers. Well done brad in proving how little your opinion actually matters.
In regards to the actual topic, I think at the moment I would prefer Darvish over Weaver. I think Darvish is better now and will be in the future, but Weaver has been doing it for much longer. In the end I think we can all agree they're both really good and if possible I would love for both of them to pitch for the Rangers. But those breaking balls that Darvish throws are so damn entertaining to watch!!
On Weaver vs Darvish:
Weaver is proven and had a track record of excellence. No doubt that every MLB team in the league would take him with his current contract. However, he is 30 years old. I do think his pitching style lends to a slow decline as opposed to a precipitous drop-off, but it's highly likely that he's seen his ceiling and, at best, will be able to match his 2012 season going forward.
Darvish: had an outstanding rookie campaign. Despite appalling spells of command issues put up lots of innings, huge strike-out numbers and, most importantly, showed an ability to step up in big at-bats, innings and games. Was outright dominant at end of season.
However, because Darvish was great in 2012, does not mean he will be again in 2013. Many here seem to assume that 2012 is Darvish's floor and will be better moving forward. There are a lot of reasons to believe this. He has a year of MLB experience now. He's got a year of getting acclimated to American culture, etc. It's very reasonable to assume he'll be better....and his ceiling is, as when acquired, as high as can be imagined. He could win a Cy Young this year or next and become the best pitcher in the majors.
It's also possible that he regresses in 2013. That he again has command issues or hitters simply hit him better. I don't think this is likely, and if I had to bet, I'd say he will at least match his 2012 season. But it isn't a certainty. Darvish needs another year of two of highly productive seasons before you can just assume he'll be good.
Bottom line...both will be expected to duplicate their 2012 performance. Weaver's ceiling, however, is right at his 2012 performance, while Yu's ceiling is pretty much anything you can imagine. Assuming Yu has a solid 2012, moving into 2014 and beyond the expectations for Yu will be sky high while for Weaver they will start falling simply because of age.
9 out of 10, huh, j?
Andy, these guys obviously know more than you. You lost. Move on.
- no one, ever
j = brad?
I was just wondering why j slammed Kyle when Kyle mentioned in his post about brad. You answered my question.
Haha you're implying I'm juvenile by saying we should meet up after you get angry on a forum? Seems a little ironic! And yes ozzie, j = brad
"One of the better baseball web sites, I believe it was either BP or Fangraphs, had a GIF enhanced article featuring the nasty efficacy of his pitching (notably his cutter), and his ability to dominate batters with the quality and variety of his pitches."
@primi timpano can you find that article and post it on a new thread or in this one? i'd be interested in seeing it.
Yu vs Jered.
J vs brad ... or is that J = brad... ?
Eric vs the world
Still... Yu could well end up being the second coming of Dice-K. The strain of high intensity employment and production in a foreign environment has broken more than just Dice-K. It is true that Darvish has a very limited track record... but, that cutter...
Remember Roger Pavlik, anyone? He had a delivery much like Weaver's - across his body. He was told early on that it created a heavy strain on his arm and he would likely break down. He broke down. But, he was one of our best pitchers until he did.
Weaver got his first real taste of injury last year. And, with his delivery and his advancing age (really? 30 is "advanced"? I feel so old...), his career may be approaching terminal velocity.
If I were choosing a pitcher today based on what I saw last year (measured results notwithstanding):
1) Justin Verlander2) R.A. Dickey3) Yu Darvish4) David Price5) Felix Hernandez
I'm not sure Weaver would make my top 15. Now, if you were going off 2011? Weaver would be #3 behind Kershaw (1) and Verlander (2).
I did see the pitches Darvish threw last year. I saw that cutter cut off the plate into that poor fool from Oakland who thought he was going to put his bat on it and almost put his balls on it as it made that right turn toward the A's dugout. And, I saw his August and September.
But, I have to agree his record on his current track is limited. And, other potentially massive stars have flamed out tragically because they couldn't harness what they had; because they let their worshipers get into their heads and lost focus; because they just got hurt... Lots of things can contribute to failure (lots of references to this have been applied to prospects in attempts to devalue them so that all those sports journalists would be able to write about how the Rangers "cornered the market" and "held it hostage").
But, occasionally, Mo Rivera DOES figure out his amazing stuff; Elvis Andrus does become an elite defensive shortstop and quality hitter; Nolan Ryan DOES figure out his fastball, when complimented with his devastating curve and eye-popping change CAN be thrown over the plate successfully. Sometimes the Yu Darvishes go on to carve themselves pretty good careers.
Right now, based on the high probability of injury to Weaver because on his pitching style based on what happened to other players with similar styles, I'd throw my hat in with Yu Darvish if I could only choose one. I just don't see Weaver lasting that much longer at an elite level - if at all.
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