What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Are we worrying too much about next year as fans it's natural we want the rangers to win now but rather than sign laroche swisher etc or running off to trade away prospects etc and have an old team next year perhaps we'd be better off retooling for 2014In a yearWe won't be paying young,Martin Perez will have had another year of development and i think will be a very capable 3,well know if Leo us Martin can handle the big leagues(based on his numbers at round rock this year he's very underrated)Ian kinslers ankle willl have had time to heal(he nearly had surgery at the all-star break and seems like a major dl risk this year) and as for now were still a wild card contender still fun to watch(andrus profar middle infield sounds like a lot of fun, and I think darvish is developing into the best pitcher we've had since Nolan) while getting players used to new positions etc, now I'm not saying don't spend money (extend Murphy Elvis if you can and try the longo/moore thing on Perez profar and olt) but you don't have to go crazy and blow a ton so we can't spend next year
I like your thinking, Christian86.
Chris, I agree. Do not trade core prospects, and the Ramger's have their fair share. The prospects of today are the Stars of tomorrow. Sign a free agent or two, the Rangers have already eliminated > $66 m of 2013 team salary. So if Pierzynski, Laroche, even Swisher, in the field or Liriano, even E. Jackson, may be even D. Young (though more of a risk) are signed and not spend more than $40 m, may even move Cruz, so team budget will fall below $100 m, correlating with an obvious drop in attendance, so the Rangers will prep for 2014 and beyond. Only by playing Martin, Olt, Perez,Profar, even Garcia, possibly even E, Beltre and Borbon; and expanding pitching roles for Font, Grimm, Lindblom, Ortiz, Ross (start), Scheppers and West are the potential to returning the glory years of 2010,2011. I realize there are a plethora of names, Spring Training was long created to sort out thay dilemma.
This issue with Swisher and LaRoche is more about the draft impact to me then the contracts. Giving up the 1st round pick impacts your whole draft now. Both Swisher and LaRoche can help out, but I'm not sure the short term gains are worth the long term costs. I'm thinking AJ and Edwin Jackson are possibilities.
Personally I would to see if Garcia could win the utility role in spring training. But yeah I don't get why people are antsy to move olt beltre isn't getting younger and will need to be moved to 1b/dh within the next few years due to injury concern and besides lOok at what an olt type lvl prospect is getting right now(arnaud for 1 year of dickey)
D'Arnaud is better then Olt as a prospect to boot. This year seems to be the year of over pays.
Agreed with pretty much everything y'all have said.
The question I have is, should we be more worried about Kinsler's ankle? He says it feels better, but, how about after 3 weeks of Spring Training?
This shouldn't be a rebuilding year. The Rangers have an 80-85 win team as it is. They are 2 impact players away from a 90+ win contender. They had the resources (FA $ and trade pieces) to get those 2 players. They could've trade Andrus for Upton, signed Sanchez, and still had $ left over to sign Uehara or Adams.
JD didn't plan on rebuilding in 2013. If that were the plan, then why keep Andrus and identify Greinke, Hamilton, and Upton as your top FA targets. It's pretty obvious what happened. JD grossly underestimated what it would take to get players of that caliber. What's hard to figure out is why. Greinke and Hamilton signed for less than what a lot of us thought they would going into the offseason. And the idea that you could get Upton for Olt is just silly. It was always going to take Andrus to get Upton. We all knew that.
The Rangers have a lot of good young players and JD deserves credit for that. He's also made some nice trades over the years. But he's definitely not perfect. The AGon trade and MY extension have proven to be big mistakes. This offseason has been a complete disaster. Instead of watching a contender next season, it increasingly looks as if we're going to be watching the 2012 team minus Hamilton, Napoli, Adams, and Uehara with some rookies inserted to fill the gaps.
Since losing out on the teams first choices this offseason, I would agree on retooling. I can handle a year of mediocracy if it helps to build a franchise like the Braves in the 90's that made the playoffs 15 straight years.
If that is the route they decide to take though, you have to trade Elvis now. His value is as high as it will get. If Didi Gregorius can basically get you a Trevor Bauer type prospect, imagine what Elvis can get.
So when the Rangers win 84-86 games this year and draw 2.1 million fans, what will the level of patience be then?
If that number seems low - check 2009.
David, I imagine tensions will be higher if that happens.
I would think the Rangers will have no problem passing your attendance total. In 2009, the Rangers had been going through years of below average play and bad ownership. There are many more fans now b/c of the back2back WS and improved Ballpark atmosphere.
JD knew our FA's were leaving--saving 60 mil off 2013 salary.It blows that Ham went to Angels and JD wanted Upton--but no need to panic.
What we really need is to rebuild bullpen and get a catcher.Why are we sleeping on Soriano--if he can close in Tampa and New York--he's totally legit.im hearing that he might accept a 2 yr deal.Nathan only has a year on his contract. And he's either on --or not! and you can tell after about 6 pitches.
And this franchise has waited 40 years for an all star short stop---i say extend Elvis now and play Profar at 2B.
Wow interesting stuff.
In my eyes, JD failed this offseason by all of the resons listed above, not going into that here. So using that logic I agree with the retooling logic. I relaly think that is the only choice now. I wouldn't trade Elvis, he is too young and at a prime position. If anyhting I will trade Beltre before Andrus and to trade either one you would have to blow me away with an offer. I mean like the trade that brought us Elvis, Neftali, and Harry. But other than those two and the prime starters (Darvish, Harry, and Ogando) all the other veterans are available. You write off 13 and build for 14 and beyond it is the only logical step now.
To me Swisher and Laroche are nice players but they do not replace Greinke and Hamilton. Yes we need a catcher to compete this season. But if you look at Soto as buying time for the young guys (Zaneski, Alfaro, etc.) then he fulfills a need. So I really do not see an improvement over last seasons team out there except the #5 starter slot and I am not convinced Perez can't be much better in 13.
So to sum this up the kids play in 13 and the only trades you make are for 14 and beyond. Perhaps the kids compete and make the year interesting but honestly the predictions of 85-90 wins and challenging for a wild card are wishful thinking. I see us mor ein the mid 70's or early 80's win totals. yes we have good pitching with Darvish, Ogando and Harry if they perform as expected. Holland is inconsitent and as soon as he figures it out he can be great. Perez is the question mark right now. But not too long ago he was our best pitching prospect so he can be good too. The bullpen is a mess. Font and Scheppers have potential but who knows. Lindbloom was decent for Philly and the rest of the arms are questionable too. Bu the offense is where it hurts the most for this year. We lost well over 70HR's and well over 170 runs scored, we lost our #3 hitter granted he was not great most of the summer but still that presence is what we lost. We lost Nap who by all accounts was not great last season and may not ever be great again. But he still produced a decent OBP and 20 HR. We lost a lot this offseason and have not replace any of that production with anything other than question marks. If everything falls into place and the young guys perform the way they did in the minors we should be fine. But if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their butt when they landed too.
Bottom line is baseball will be fun to watch in Texas thsi year but do not expect too much. martin and Gentry are not Hamilton Whiteside and Soto are not Napoli. As for the rest the ripple effect will be in place. Without Josh batting third the fear of our lineup is not present. Baseball will be interesting. But 90 wins is a dream, so expect the worst and hope for the best and you will have a ball watching Profar, Olt, martin, Perez, Font, Grimm and many other bloom or fail before your very eyes.
Chuck, I have no problem with the approach you're suggesting, except your characterization of it as "writing off" 2013. If you mean that the fans should write it off and not expect anything, ok. If you think JD is writing off 2013, I highly doubt that.
Further, I'd argue that Swisher would go a long way toward replacing Hamilton when you factor in what his presence in RF does (i.e., moves Nellie to DH, replacing MY....addition by subtraction at two positions). I wouldn't pay him $20M/yr, but if you want to try get to a 90-win season, making a few strategic moves (without making megadeals) could get you there without sacrificing 2014 and beyond.
Since most everyone has the 2013 season in the books, lets move on to the 2014 season or even beyond. So many experts!!! Which is merely a has been under pressure. Something stupid is always stupid. We had the team last year and failed. The Angels really had the team last year and failed. They played the season and Oakland which absolutely did not have the team won. Go figure. Let's play the season and then use our expertise to determine why we finished where we did.
The best time to evaluate an offseason is after the season that follows it.
You are correct, when I said writing off 13 I menat as fans. No one in any pro sprots FO can write off any year. Even i fyouo start rookies at all 9 postiions in your lineup you still think they will be competitive. Although obvious exceptions exist, see the Astros from 12.
Wayne, no one is giving anything away yet, however, most of us on this board and others are a little realistic. honestly there is relaly no way of matching Josh's production for the last 4 years. No one player is going to give you that. All I was trying ot point out is, I read that JD will pull off a miracle by Jan 31 and find the second coming of Josh and I just don't see that. Furthermore, I do not see JD and the front office pulling off amiracle trade of Cody Buckel for a true ACE a inpact bat and 3 relievers to make this team the 95 win juggernaut it has been since 2010. It is just not realistic to think that. Do I see LaRoche as an improvement over Moreland maybe but not significantly. Do I agree that moving Kins to 1B is good, NO! However, I want Profar in the lineup with Elvis. So you have to do something with Kins. I really do not see anyone trading anything of value for Kins though. So realistically speaking it was Hamilton or Upton or bust in my opinon.
Is there a true #1 or even solid #2 pitcher left out there? Not in my eyes. You can argue for Lohse but he will cost much more than you think and he is an older version of Holland who is capable of being a solid #2 if you can figure out which day he can do that you will be one step ahead of everyone on the Rangers staff.
In no way shape form or fashion am I saying 13 is over all I am saying is be realistic. In reality this is a .500 team on paper as it stands right now. Keep that in mind when you predict 95 wins because Josh has a WAR of 6.0 and MY has a WAR of -2.0 so moving Kins to RF with his 3.0 WAR means we only lost a WAR of 1.0 so we won 93 games in 12 and you add all of that up and come up with 95 wins?? Really? In order to get very high above 80 wins you are asking Olt, Profar, Perez, and Martin to put up pretty good numbers, not Trout numbers but definitely Harper numbers. That is entirely possible, but not likely from all of the rookies.
They may all end up being great players and I have faith in them, especially Olt who by the way can hit. He is also a pretty good defensive third baseman. But asking them all to leave the starting gate at a full sprint is asking a lot.
PRETTY SAD PERFORMANCE BY THE FRONT OFFICE. The way they jerked around their best player in club history the past three years (Michael Young)....failure to sign NAPOLI...ADAMS...UEHARRA.....HAMILTON.The word gets around......Players don't want to come here unless you over-pay. JD cannot be very popular in the Clubhouse. The p;ayers are in a very close fraternity.If you don't treat your own with any class....Why would anyone go out of the way to come here?
The bashing of the front office is so off base. First, Hamilton and Grienke were serious overpays and not underpays. Last time I checked, the same things were being said last year when Pujols and Wilson went to the Angels. The reasoning is so off base that it's not contributing to the argument. The Rangers could not afford Fielder, Wilson or Pujols and they could not afford the same this year. I suppose some of you prefer to field a team like those that had Alex Rodriguez and a bunch of scrubs. This front office is doing what needs to be done. No plan is perfect and I would not expect perfection from anyone trying to compete against the Angel's payroll. Pujols, Wilson, Hamilton, Grienke, Weaver and Vernon Wells make a combined 130 million a year or more than the entire Rangers payroll. So we can either jump off a cliff with them or learn from the mistakes of the past. If I were to list the problems of the team, JD would be towards the very bottom. The prospects of this team, for better or worse, are the only life line a Ranger's fan has when competing against the bottomless pits of cash. So go ahead and bash what works, because I already know what does not work.
"Since losing out on the teams first choices this offseason, I would agree on retooling. I can handle a year of mediocracy if it helps to build a franchise like the Braves in the 90's that made the playoffs 15 straight years."
if i remember correctly, the Braves of the 90's were not afraid to pay their core players top $$ to keep them around. they also weren't afraid to bring in top-tier free agents (Maddux) or trade for top tier players (McGriff) to keep them in the hunt every single year. as much as i hated the Braves during that time period, i respect the way they went about running their team.
Flop, I think the Rangers FO has shown a willingness to do all those things. Keep core players (Kinsler), sign top tier FA (Yu, Beltre), and trade for top tier players (Lee). They are in a similar situation to those Braves IMO, because they can spend money and have a loaded farm. Its the best of both worlds. However, this was probably the Rangers most important off-season and they haven't done too well in it.
I have no idea what the Rangers are trying to accomplish this off season. If we're going to play it smart let's drop an extension on Elvis. He doesn't sign we ship him out before the trade deadline and get an arm or populate the farm. POW I made it rhyme.
I agree jon. But it seems to me that the FO is trying to get hte best of both worlds going by not signign Elvis long term right now. Seems to me that they are trying to see how Profar will do everyday while still hanging on to Kins. In my eyes, if they were seriously sold on Profar then they would trade Kins for whatever they can get for him and if they are unsure of Profar then trade him righ tnow while the value is high the same can be said of Elvis for that matter. Seems they are a lot less sure of Olt and Perez since both of their names have come up in trade talks this offseason. However surprise surprise other GM's read Baseball Prospectus too!!
But back to your original point the logic escapes me as far as what they are trying to accomplish right now. It seems almost like they are shopping for a Porsche in the GMC Lot.
Elvis has Boras as agent. Boras states they will go the FA market unless his client can screw the team upfront. Elvis will not sign long term now with Boras as his agent. That is the #1 reason I would push to trade Elvis now instead of later.
Not ALL of Boras' clients hit free agency. If Elvis really wanted to he could get an extension for real, put the blame on him and not his agency.
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