What does their being black have to do with anything?

Eric purports, "I can guarantee you the Rangers evaluation of Justin Upton has absolutely nothing to do with his brother."

No you can't guarantee a thing...and I find it beyond ridiculous that you would try to speak for the front office.

Justin's WAR has averaged 3.96 over the past 3 years
BJ's WAR has averaged 3.83 over the past 3 years

Some brothers are very different. Some are similar. Some are spooky similar. These two are spooky.

If you want to say that Justin will be something better and beyond...consider the following. When you get them away from their very peculiar inflationary and deflationary parks here is the following reality:

BJ 2010-2012 Road Homers: 36
Justin 2010-2012 Road Homers: 26

In *each* of the past 3 seasons BJ has hit for more road power.

Don't try to spin my race comment contrast into something it isn't. You should know me better than that. To discredit what I'm saying, sure, but don't pretend like I'm saying that in any deleterious fashion. I was giving surface-level observations, which is exactly what you're turning this into.

You fail to take scouting reports and age into account. BJ and Justin are not the same player. You can spew OPS+ and road home runs and all that other jazz until you're blue in the face. It doesn't mean anything to me.

I've already defended you against the racist charges, Eric. And would again. I was trying to understand why you brought that up?

Eric declares, "You can spew OPS+ and road home runs and all that other jazz until you're blue in the face. It doesn't mean anything to me."

When a guy in a baseball forum declares that comparative stats and park effects don't mean ANYTHING to him in terms of player projection...that's when the fat lady is already singing.

But thanks for playing!

Joe Dimaggio, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, and Babe Ruth all had brothers. Should we evaluate these HOFers based on their brothers' ability or their own? LOL!

I think Justin Upton's career .399 wOBA at Chase Field speaks for itself. It certainly appeals to me more than Andrus's career .314 wOBA at RBIA. 2 years of Andrus for 3 years of Upton is a no brainer.

RFan protests, Joe Dimaggio, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, and Babe Ruth all had brothers. Should we evaluate these HOFers based on their brothers' ability or their own? LOL!

-Only one of Ruth's seven siblings, his sister Mamie, survived past infancy
-Mickey was the oldest
-Ted Williams was the oldest
-Joe Dimaggio is an interesting case. He was 8th of 9 children...and had two brothers that played MLB. He was superior to his younger brother, Dom and to his older brother Joe.

A considerable majority of high achievers are first born.

And with recent *notable* ball playersI've already documented a bunch...but here are a couple more:
Cal Ripken > Billy Ripken
Bengie Molina > secondborn Jose Molina

Here is a question for the pro Upton crowd...

1. Why have the DBacks been so eager to trade Justin?
2. Why have there been so few interested dance partners to acquire him?
3. If it was/is as simple as giving up two years of Elvis (which I've heard from numerous sources)...why hasn't the deal happened already?

1. If recent history serves a purpose, it's been proven that Kevin Towers is willing to sell assets on the cheap if they have had problems with manager Kurt Gibson. Chris Young and Trevor Bauer were each traded for pennies on the dollar, and each reportedly didn't get along with Gibson. Kurt has been known to be a hard ass, and Justin Upton is in the same class as Young/Bauer, which is why I still think he's moved before the season starts.

2. Arizona has specific needs, and the Rangers are one of the only organizations with the necessary property. It's still only the beginning of January, so it's no rush. Towers will hold out on Andrus as long as he can. Once it's official they can't acquire him, they'll trade Upton elsewhere. (If you'd like to say "The Rangers have mad it clear they won't trade Andrus," or "Arizona has said they are fine starting the year with Upton in their outfield," that's cool. I still won't buy it until I see it.)

3. Either JD values Andrus > Upton and wants more, or Arizona's real focus is Jurickson Profar. If the latter is the case, the deal isn't going to happen.

Baseball has been full of brothers:
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/family/fam1.shtml
But few have the combined talents of the Uptons. I side with RFan on this one. Justin is an amazing talent. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any other COFs with his talents who are likely to be available for Andrus.

BTW, my favorites are the Deans.

More on AZ fan reaction to Towers' recent moves:

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/21376367/the-wiki-war-on-kevin-towers-has-begun

Ariz might be willing to trade Upton for Andrus b/c Andrus is a 4 WAR SS who is cheaper than Upton. Upton is signed to a favorable contract, but he's still more expensive than Andrus. Ariz has a chance to dump some payroll and pick up a nice player in return. Also, they have a glut of outfielders and need a SS (or at least they did need one). That's why they might be willing to consider the deal.

This is pure speculation, but I suspect that JD overplayed his hand. Perhaps he could've gotten Upton for Andrus at the winter meetings. But he played hard ball and tried to get Upton for Olt. Ariz said no, traded for a SS, and waited for Greinke and Hamilton to be signed. Now, Ariz has more leverage b/c the Rangers are desparate. Ariz may now be asking for Profar instead of Andrus, and that's why the deal hasn't happened. Or perhaps Ariz is now asking for Andrus plus someone else that JD isn't willing to part with.

The Andrus for Upton trade makes so much sense for the Rangers that I have to believe that the reason it hasn't happened is that Ariz isn't willing to do the deal.