What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
You do realize he finished 4th in the MVP voting, not 3rd, right?
Braun, Kemp, Fielder, then Upton. I also thinks it's a bit of a strange argument.
He's got talent, no doubt. He's the type of high upside player that fits the Rangers philosophy. But I don't love swings of 3 and 4 points in WAR on players I'm paying over $10 million to. I could see him as Cruz's eventual replacement, but not Hamilton's. Plus I hate the right handedness of a post-Josh lineup. They;ll get eaten alive by righthanded pitching.
Peter Gammons just tweeted this:“@pgammo: If you don't believe the multi-team Upton trade talk, Wednesday night a Rangers official called an Astros officisl and said, "we got Upton."”
Mother F, F, F!!! Make it happen!
Will it cost us Elvis, though?
Also, I bet it was Purpura. He was with Houston for a long time.
For me, Upton and Elvis are separate yet related.
Would I prefer to get him without Elvis? Yes. Would I then keep Elvis? No. I'd turn around and see about swinging him to Tampa with prospects for Price and going Price-Darvish-Greinke in my rotation. They tell me no? I see about sending him to Tampa for Shields and a prospect an rolling Darvish-Greinke-Shields. Still no? Who else needs a SS? Three team deal? Send him to Pit for Taillon, Marte, and a 3rd prospect, flip them to Mia for Stanton?
Assuming you can get value for him, apply that value elsewhere and make Profar the SS. Profar wouldn't have to be better than Elvis for that to make sense. He'd just have to be better than the guy who gets replaced by whoever you get for Elvis. Profar at SS and Shields in the rotation makes you better than Elvis at SS ad Perez in the rotation, for example, because even if Profar struggles, it will likely be less than Perez might have.
As for Upton, my MVP argument was shorthand for "believe in the upside". He's young and inconsistent. He'll grow out of that, in my opinion. I agree that it leaves the lineup a bit RH. Would love to deal Nellie for a prospect and sign Swisher. That would solve the RH problem and give you a pair of starting SH- matchup nightmare. It would also give you versatility because Swisher can play 1B.
Completely agree with your assessment Scooby.
I think that's the best assessment of the situation I have see Scooby. Very well done! This has been my opinion for a long time, but I have never been able to articulate it so well. It's not that people who are in favor of trading Elvis are in anyway undervaluing what he brings, it's just it's an area of excess. And when you can take that excess and use it to fill major areas of need on the team, why wouldn't you?
Good response Scoob. I would definitely be more willing to deal Elvis if it got us Price instead of Upton. I've said that all along. Price is more talented than Upton, more consistent than Upton, and a certified TORP is way more valuable than a guy who might - or might not - be the middle-order bat we are looking for. I would still worry about how much Profar could deliver in 2013, but I'd pull the trigger on an Elvis/Price swap for sure.
Most of the talk on this webvsite has been centered on an Elvis/Upton swap, and that's what I've been against all along. I like the idea of Upton joining the team, but I strongly believe Elvis is worth more than Upton.
My question is, with the Rays already having Ben Zobrist and now Yunel Escobar, why would they want Elvis?
Escobar has been pretty sub par 2 of the last 3 years. He's making $5M and performing like a role player. That doesn't fit the Rays model and if they could net a player like Elvis or Cabrera they would surely ship him off to another team.
Here are Escobar's fWAR totals since coming into the league:
'07 - 2.6'08 - 3.6'09 - 4.4'10 - 2.0'11 - 4.2'12 - 1.8
Not a great shortstop, but surely the type of gamble TB likes to take @ $5M over the next couple-few years.
yeah, if a good year from escobar puts him in the top 10ish of SS. At 5 mil a year, it could be a steal.
I think with them it's more about the Price/Shields combo being too pricey, what with the cheaper Moore, Hellickson/Neiman lying around.
Upton/Price is apples and oranges. Elvis would just be a down payment on Price. He'd basically cover Upton or Shields, maybe plus a prospect (the Dbacks seem a bit loose with Trevor Bauer). I think those two are a better comp. I'd be in favor of either, really.
The reason Upton comes up a lot is because he seems available, he fills an obvious need, and a lot of people like him a lot, perhaps more than you do. The reason Upton/Elvis comes up all the time is because E is the Rangers' most obvious trade chip. The reason Upton comes up more than Shields is because it pairs with signing Greinke, while Shields would pair with signing Hamilton. A lot of people are done with Hamilton.
wow-scooby u nailed it. as always u are right on. i dont know why we need joey if u are here. keep up with the obvious. u should get a gm job. i hear theres an opening at grapevine little league. maybe u could team up with ricki in ft worth. the dynamic duo
@Scooby. I agree with most of your arguement, but saying that the Dbacks are being loose with Bauer means little. They will still want value and probably would say Elvis for him straight up is fair. If you asked for both for Elvis, they would laugh. To get BOTH JUPS and Bauer your looking at Elvis, Olt, a role player and maybe even another prospect.
How is J. Upton any different than Ian Kinsler? Kinsler has even more extreme home/road splits than Upton does. I'm also not entirely sure where this "Upton is lazy, he's a me-first player!" sentiment comes from. Because he has a brother named BJ? Because Arizona is willing to trade him? If they were that desperate to get rid of this "club-house cancer" he would have been gone two to three years ago when they were shopping him. We are willing to listen on Andrus. They are willing to listen on Upton. Tell me, what's the difference?
Upton is 25 he has already booked a season with 33 home runs. Last year he played with a sore shoulder for most of the year. Players do not usually peak until 27. Upton is signed for 3 more years at a reasonable rate. He is a super star, ready to break out!
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