What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
The players will decide when it's time for Wash to go. And still, the players play hard for him. We'll see a 74-win season when they show they want him gone. I have a feeling he'll be here for the next 5 years, because I think we have some championships to win in that time span.
Don't forget, he's still pretty young on a managerial level. He's still learning.
You can't fix stupid Eric.
Yes. But, don't discount what Eric says... We don't have any control. As much as we want to take the reins, that's not for us to do.
Wash could well be here the next 5 years. But, I would hope that, if the team regresses again like they did this year, something would be done sooner to correct the situation. To let such a great team collapse in on itself all the way through the end of the season when minor corrections through the season COULD (not would, of course... could) have righted things and gotten the team back on track.
But, I still don't see Wash understanding what went wrong nor do I expect that he is of a mind to hold one of his stars accountable or establish ground rules and parameters (boundaries?) for their conduct and production.
But, they wanted Tom Landry's head prior to the 1966 season. He got rewarded with a 10-year contract and that was that... things turned around, the players started performing and history occurred and it had stars on its helmet.
But, I still don't see Wash being able to do the things it'll take to win on the baseball field.
Somehow... I seem to remember that I've been wrong before... this may have been it. lol
@EricHe's still learning.
I agree with your very well written first post on this topic as you wrote far more efficiently pretty much exactly the points I was trying to make. However, I'm going to have to disagree here. Wash has struck me as someone that is nearly incapable of learning due to his own stubbornness. It took Wash almost two months to remove Young out of the 5th spot, he has already said he's going to keep Kinsler in the lead-off spot for 2013 and if Hamilton is gone next season, guess who his most likely pick for batting third is? If I felt that Wash actually did learn from his mistakes then I would be on the other side of the fence that wants him to stay. Instead, I'm on the side that thinks JD should find a more suitable replacement.
@ David - great posts - I agree.
@ eric - still, the players play hard for him? really? you saw the 2012 season, right?
on balance, Josh played hard? No. on balance, Ian played hard? Clearly checked out mentally at times. Elvis, Murph? Admitted they ran out of gas.Gentry, Olt, Profar? Didn't get a chance.
I agree that Wash's best quality as a manager WAS that he got players to play for him. Frankly, I think that's the only positive quality he ever had as amanager. Either way, I think that for the most part that ended in April or May. I think they've grown tired of his bit and any message he had now falls on deaf ears. You think Elvis and Dutch don't roll their eyes every time he bitches one of them out, wondering why Young doeasn't get callled out for stepping on his d*ck in the filed or rolling yet another DP grounder to 6 or 4?
Too many people want to fall back on the old "he got us to 2 World Series." Yes, he did. It was awsome (could have obviously been much better - and many would argue that his managing cost us at least one title, if not both). But that doesn't buy him a job for life.
I agree, Dark Reins. I think it's fair to say that during postgame interviews, or other times when the media was asking questions about his moves, he came off as stubborn, defensive, and perhaps insecure, a lot more often then he appeared to be open-minded and humble about them. It's sad that it took an epic collapse at the end of the season in order for him to admit a mistake in his judgment - the fact that he ran his veterans into the ground, and that was just one of the many problems with his managing this season. He also appeared to dismiss other issues as "nitpicking" or "making excuses" during the news conference. I'm fine with a manager learning on the job if it's his first or second season with a team, but Ron Washington's had the position for six seasons, so I don't understand why his performance in 2012 should be considered acceptable. Because of these things, I don't have a whole lot of confidence that Wash can make the adjustments needed to be an adequate manager. There's no reason to keep him if the players start to show a disconnect with Wash.
Here's a spray chart of Freese's 2011 hits at Busch. It looks to me like Wash had Cruz in the right spot based on probability. He obviously does have more pop to opposite field than center/left, but he was an opposite field line drive hitter. You can't blame Wash for that triple in game 6. He had hit exactly one double off the wall before that pitch. So your argument is very weak and to expect Wash to know he was going to hit a triple off the wall is expecting him to be psychic.
It was out of line for me to be a smart aleck about what you said though David and for that I apologize, but I do agree with you that Wash is not the best in-game manager, and the way he put some of the defensive lineups together in the 2011 World Series really got me questioning him, but he has done an overall good job, and I really don't know of any replacements that would be more suitable for this next years job than Wash, we all agree that he is a good coach I think, and look who will be coming up next year, Profar and Olt, two infield prospects, and Wash is a very good infield coach. He did a great job with Elvis in my opinion and I think he will do the same with these young guys, but David you are spot on in saying he isn't the best tactician in the heat of the game, but I do disagree with you on the Freese hit, and I think that chart will prove that, that was out of anyone's control.
still, the players play hard for him? really? you saw the 2012 season, right?
I did see the 2012 season. Pitch-for-pitch of about 160 of the games. I'm wondering if you did. Because outside of the egregious slump over the last few weeks, which ended up costing us the division, the Rangers were operating throughout most of the summer with the best record in the more talented of the two leagues.
I'm not denying that some of Wash's decision-making in the months leading up to September (notably his divvying up of playing time) may have had something to with why Texas blew it, but calling into question whether or not his players still cared about playing hard for him is highly questionable, in my opinion.
You may be right. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. But an old dog is still living, still with bullets left in the chamber. It takes a lot for me to completely give up on a person. The more games, or if applied to anything in life, the more experience any individual has with anything, they are going to get better at whatever it is they're doing.
He has to learn from 2012, because if he doesn't, he doesn't deserve to be our manager in 2014. The front office was extremely hands off last year, which is why I believe they should shoulder some of the blame is well. And as they are also young, I don't think they will tolerate how last season went if it happens again. The Michael Young situation isn't going to happen again. He's going to get a month, maybe two months, in 2013. If he doesn't produce, his spot in the lineup will go up in smoke. If Wash doesn't want to do it himself, Jon Daniels will.
"He has to learn from 2012, because if he doesn't, he doesn't deserve to be our manager in 2014."
Should say 2013. I don't care who you are, you don't deserve a free pass if you stubbornly insist on making the same mistakes over and over. He has to make adjustments immediately.
As to the general topic, I hate the idea that we have assembled an incredible roster, but we're being held back because we have to allow the manager to screw things up.
What is a manager for? Just a person to fill out lineup cards and cheer? He doesn't play the game. But he's paid a lot, and it's almost impossible to argue that a good manager or a bad one doesn't have an impact. As I see it, the manager's primary job is to make it EASIER for his players to win. And I think Wash was a complete failure at that in 2012, as I think he repeatedly made them overcome his stupidity, and it cost them. It's not the record, or the collapse at the end of the season, but rather the fact that virtually the entire team underperformed pretty much the whole season. A good manager makes his players play to the best of their abilities, and this manager didn't. This team went through lots of long stretches of totally lackadaisical play.
As for the argument that he must be the right manager for these guys because he got them to the WS, the reality is that players at some point can simply stop following, can stop buying into what they are being sold. They can see the stupid choices, and initially love it but ultimately roll their eyes and think "here we go again." The cumulative effect of the WS losses could be the culprit here, but it doesn't matter why they stop responding, so much as the fact that it's occurred.
Ultimately, I keep coming back to the idea that there's no good reason to handicap your team. If you want to be the best, get the best manager, not any ole guy. And I don't think Wash is anywhere near the best - which for me, makes me think it's gotta be a real short leash in 2013.
It should matter because many people do not want to go through all the trouble to attend a game and then leave disappointed because of less than MLB play or POOR MANAGING. I don't like to sit in the comfort of my home near food and restroom and watch for free bad baseball.
The "leash", I would think, would be long enough that Wash won't be fired in season. That's not a Nolan Ryan handshake deal way of doing business. If Wash starts the season, unless he quits or has some physical malady strike him, he'll almost assuredly finish the season.
So, I've had my say. I don't believe we have a manager, but I do believe we have the best talent ever assembled - at least since the implementation of the entry draft and the Yankees no longer had a corner on the market - and that talent will, again take us to the playoffs. How far we go will be dependent on how much Wash learned from this year and how well he is willing to work with the Front Office and trust them to have some insight into how things are going (rather than, say, Art Howe with Billy Beane with Ron Washington looking on).
I think a HUGE disconnect occurred last year between the manager and the Front Office - a similar disconnect as happened to Oakland when Art Howe refused to play the players their Front Office wanted. If Wash and JD can get past their differences and figure out how they, together, can make this a better team, we'll see a remarkable turnaround.
Frankly, because I have no other choice and zero input into the situation, such a turnaround will be eagerly anticipated by one J. David Draggle. If it doesn't happen? Oh well. I'll root, anyway and see what happens for 2014.
Actually, should say 2014. Like I said, if the Rangers players don't want Wash as their manager, their record will reflect that. We should be able to tell pretty early on in 2013. And baseball isn't like basketball or football; if you have some sort of "real short leash" you're basically throwing your season away. We've seen in other sports countless times that players clearly don't back their head coach, he gets fired, then all of a sudden the new guy brings out their "potential". That's not the fact of the matter. The fact is that professional players try when they want to try, and when they no longer want their manager leading them, they give up. See: 2012 Boston Red Sox.
You're being completely shortsighted if you believe that Ron Washington is the reason why the players looked lackadaisical. As it's been referenced by a few players, the team got tired down the stretch, and it very likely had something to do with the deep playoff runs they made the previous two years.
That's not on Wash.
What's on Wash is that he did a poor job consistently keeping MY in the lineup, that he didn't give his regulars enough rest, and that he didn't give Craig Gentry enough time in the field. Again, as I've mentioned, part of the blame needs to go on the front office for not stepping in and doing something about that. It's not 100% Ron Washington. It's about 50% Wash, 30% the front office, and 20% the players for simply not getting the job done.
You are risking a serious mutiny within the clubhouse if you fire Wash after a bad April, let's say. And the front office isn't that stupid. Reactionary fans want Washington gone because 2012 was a disappointment, by our standards. Rational fans look at the big picture, and maybe outside Josh Hamilton, the Rangers did not quit on their manager in 2012.
Eric, I don't buy your spin on the 2012 season. I think you've created your own narrative to fit your preferences, not a correct one.
I also think your assertion that "You are risking a serious mutiny within the clubhouse if you fire Wash after a bad April, let's say." is pure hooey. In 2012 I think they saw Wash steering the ship into the ditch and the players mentally checked out, and in that context there would be relief rather than mutiny if -someone sharp was inserted into the mix..
As far as the idea that the lackadaisical stuff was only down the stretch when the team puked up the division, nope not buying that spin at all. I saw half-assedness on display for the better part of the season. This team played well with a lead, but displayed little fight in tough games or to battle from behind compared to previous years.
Whether they give him the entire 2013 season if he doesn't get the team on track from the get-go, we have no way of knowing until it plays out. But I hope that mediocrity isn't left to fester for a full season, if that's what we keep getting from the manager.
It's cliche, I know, but baseball is a game of mistakes. The team that makes the fewest generally wins. That said a great team deserves a "manager" that also makes the fewest mistakes.
@EricHe's going to get a month, maybe two months, in 2013. If he doesn't produce, his spot in the lineup will go up in smoke. If Wash doesn't want to do it himself, Jon Daniels will.
I'll believe it when I see it but I sure hope you're right!
@gtownfan...a great team deserves a "manager" that also makes the fewest mistakes.
Great post. This pretty much sums up my thoughts on Wash as the manager since his managing of the 2010 WS.
If the team got tired down the stretch, how is that not related to the manager overplaying the regulars and thus on Ron Washington's shoulders?
Eric doesn't even believe his own schtick about Ron Washington. Several months ago he wanted #RONGONE. Something has changed and it's not Eric's true convictions.
When someone loses their true convictions I lose a measure of respect. What's going on here, Eric? What's the agenda?
Pretty sure I explained this above: "What's on Wash is that he did a poor job consistently keeping MY in the lineup, that he didn't give his regulars enough rest, and that he didn't give Craig Gentry enough time in the field. Again, as I've mentioned, part of the blame needs to go on the front office for not stepping in and doing something about that. It's not 100% Ron Washington. It's about 50% Wash, 30% the front office, and 20% the players for simply not getting the job done."
Not in denial that it's Ron's fault. I'm just saying it's not exclusively his fault.
You don't know what my convictions are. I admit I went along with you and others as charter members of the #cutface and #rongone movement back in August or whatever, but not enough was being taken into account on my part, at least as far as Wash is concerned. I've always thought he was a poor manager and in-game tactician, but there are more factors at play than just that, in my opinion.
It's strange, but bear with me on this. If the Rangers had won the division, I'd be more prone to be more critical of him. I was far more critical when the team was winning than when they were losing, which is counter-intuitive.
However, I haven't found enough rational arguments in favor of getting rid of him. I realize the harm he brought the team in 2012 by virtue of playing time distribution and keeping Michael Young in the lineup so damn often. I get that. But in this special case, in an offseason of transition, I think the bad would outweigh the good by getting rid of him.
Most notably, the players still play for him. No matter how talented they were in 2012, if they didn't like Wash they wouldn't have come close to winning 93 games; they would have been closer to .500 or worse. If we got rid of him, and the team mutinied in 2013, that would be one more season lost in this window that's still wide open. I don't wanna waste another year. If 2012 happens again in 2013, then okay. But I really believe in this team with Washington at the helm. I guess I'm getting subjective here with intuition.
Well played, Eric.
Players are aware changes get made... and, most often, those changes occur right after the season is concluded (or within a couple of weeks). Rare exceptions are when a coveted manager/player comes available at an odd time (I believe we didn't hire Billy Martin until after January and cut the White Rat loose to hire Billy Ball - long time ago, so memory may not be so good).
It's likely the players are settled into the fact Wash will be back.
And, MY is an intelligent (if not overly aware) player and he KNOWS he stunk the joint up this year. This off season will probably be his most productive and, as Ed Looney predicts (not sure how he's so sure, but he seems to be all over it) Michael could, indeed, be that "Comeback Player of the Year for 2013". I don't see that kind of return, but I'm betting he will be productive. CPoY would be pretty cool, though, and indicative of the type of man Michael is.
That is, if Ian doesn't win the award over him... lol
Hopefully, it won't be Josh in someone else's uniform. If he were to win that award (and that would be quite a "comeback" from 5th in the MVP balloting to convince everyone he'd progressed far enough to win an award like that!).
I do think this coming year has a chance to be really special for our guys. All they have to do is pay attention to their jobs... support the guys behind them and keep them vested... and "Just win, Baby."
...jeez... I really hated Al Davis...
...and, his progeny, Al Davis, Jr. (aka Jerah Jones)...
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