What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
It seems like the DBacks want a SS for Justin Upton, hence the failed attempt to bring in ATL. Could the Rangers revisit that strategy with the Indians? Maybe something that involved Asdrubal Cabrera, Mike Olt, and Justin Upton. I know there will likely have to be more pieces involved for this to work, but what would that look like? What other teams could you bring into the gang bang?
I think Arizona is playing hardball with the Rangers. They know we really want Upton and we know they really want Andrus or Profar. My ideal hope is that the Rangers can use all of this to make a trade for Upton and Bauer for Andrus and a possibly Holland or a few other prospects. The back end of the Andrus package would have to be worked out.
How about Houston and Lowrie?
I guess I just don't get even wanting either of those two upton boys. I know he hits Hr's and steals bases! We got guys that steal bases and I think we could find a guy to hit HR's without having to give away the future for a guy whos team mates think is lazy and a "ME FIRST" player. Honestly if he's that great why do the D backs want to get rid of him? Giving up Elvis or Profar for that guy is a non starter for me.
It seems like the three team deal in the original post might have a good chance. Perhaps something that would end up looking like this:
Cleveland Receives: Mike Olt, Marin Perez, Trevor BauerArizona Receives: Asdrubal Cabrera, Lonnie Chisenhall, Nelson Cruz/David Murphy (their choice)Texas Receives: Justin Upton
Cleveland would get an upgrade at 3B in Olt and high upside/MLB ready pitching in Perez and Bauer. Arizona would receive one of the best young SS in the game and an upgrade at 3B along with another outfielder so that they wouldn't have to rush Pollock to the majors. We would get Upton while keeping Andrus/Profar/Kinsler. Arizona might require more on their end at which point we could talk about names like Grimm or Buckel but I think overall this would be a framework that all three teams might be amenable to.
Way too much for Texas to give up in that scenario..besides I dont believe Cabrera qyalifies as young SS Arizona is looking for..Maybe Rangers can trade for Zack Cosart and use him as bait for Upton instead
I think Arizona would expect more from a Upton/Bauer combo. I'm not good at the trade game, but maybe Clevland throws in Choo?
Cleveland: Mike Olt, Martin Perez, Grimm, Trevor BauerArizona: Asdrubal Cabera, Lonnie Chisenhall, Shin-Soo ChooRangers: Justin Upton
They would probably prefer Choo to Murphy/Cruz, good call. I honestly had just forgotten about him before. The inclusion of Grimm would give the Indians another young starter and I think Grimm profiles well as a back end innings eater, though they might ask for Buckel instead as he has greater upside and I think I'd be fine with that as well.
As far as the thought that Cabrera might not profile as the kind of SS they're looking for in Arizona, he's been solid at around 3 fWAR per season for most of his major league career. While he's not the same class of fielder as Andrus and is a bit older/more expensive he would still be a massive upgrade for Arizona and better than anyone else available to them outside of Andrus/Profar. The additions of Choo and Chisenhall would also provide added value, especially given their desire to compete this year. This might be the last year they really have a chance before the Dodgers and Giants make the division a two team race (at least for the next few years. Once Arizona's pitching develops in 3-4 seasons they should be able to compete at a high level again).
Maybe Cleveland could just keep Chisenhall and we ship Olt to Arizona?
Cleveland : Trevor Bauer, Martin Perez, BuckelArizona: Asdrubal Cabera, Mike Olt, Shin-Soo ChooTexas: Justin Upton
So on the Rangers side it would be Olt/Perez/Buckel for Justin Upton...is that giving up to much?
Arizona doesn't want Olt, if they did a straight deal between the two teams would have been made already.
I don't buy that they don't wan Olt. They reportedly wanted at the trade deadline and Texas wouldn't turn him loose. I have no doubt that they prefer a ss, but my guess is Texas continues to dangle Olt and when Arizona doesn't get a premier young ss they're looking for they circle back to Olt.
@FajitaI don't think it's that they don't want Olt, I think it's more that they want an established MLB player at either position. I think they would be ecstatic at that trade. I'm not sure the Rangers do that trade though, although I'd prefer that over an Elvis or Profar swap for Upton. I'd prefer we hold onto Buckel/Grimm and offer a lesser prospect. I think that's pretty fair all around.
For the life of me why do you go head over heels for someone who did not, has not, and probably will not pan out like planned. Arizona wants to dump him for that reason. Upton is a long shot like a hot prospect with a shorter time to blossom.
I'd prefer the latter trade as well but I'm not sure if that would be enough of a return for Cleveland. If Andrus and Profar are truly off the market then Cabrera is the best SS available and they could probably get more than Bauer/Perez/Buckel for him, though those three would fill immediate needs. Olt is a better prospect than Chisenhall though so if I'm Arizona I'd much rather be a part of a trade that gets me Olt. Overall though it seems like the general framework is there for something that would benefit all three teams and honestly pretty much any trade that nets us Justin Upton without losing Andrus/Profar seems like a win to me. I think the guy's going to have a great season this year and make Arizona look like fools for putting him on the market to begin with. Lwayne, I understand your hesitancy given the down season he had but I also think his detractors are putting his brother's failures on him which doesn't seem fair. Justin is more talented than his brother and his 2011 was almost a win and a half better than BJ's best season. Is he likely to repeat his 6.4 fWAR year, perhaps not but that doesn't mean that he won't be an immensely valuable player. I'm willing to gamble that the motivation/character issues reported have been overblown or were largely a product of a young kid in a less than ideal environment. Could he be a negative in the Ranger's clubhouse? Perhaps, but if he is I wouldn't think they'd have any trouble finding someone else to give up quality players in return so it's not like he'd be a sunk cost.
You may be right about Upton, but the Rangers seem to be interested in him and I trust that they did their homework.
As P1 Stefen mentioned, the most important thing is that we are not giving up Elvis/Profar. I think the players we are gambling with are worth it to see if Upton can replace Hamilton...
Olt AND Perez is way too much to give up for Upton. Those guys are cheap and controllable for a total of 12 years to Upton's 3 years that we will be paying $38M or however much it would be. Texas is not giving up that kind of package for Upton. Especially when you throw in Grimm or Buckel. HELL NO. You have to consider the $$ aspects of these deals. TX would be paying $38M for 11-15 Wins. Olt+Perez+Grimm and/or Buckel should = a lot more wins than 11-15 over the next 6 years for a fraction of the cost. Now, if they throw in Bauer, then we could be talking, but not going to give up all of that for Upton. They could also be playing hard to get w/Elvis in hopes that AZ will give up Bauer if we threw in Olt. Time will tell, but if they go for the proposals that PHart or Ryan proposed I will cut my left testicle off (not really)...
I think this post is a big reason for the rumors we are hearing on this 3 team trade...
Don't take this the wrong way, but I highly doubt this post has anything to do with the rumors. The trade just makes sense and is obviously being looked at by the teams.
@ P1 Stefen
Nope, your are wrong. JD read this and the light bulb clicked...
Nope, you are wrong. JD read this and the light bulb clicked...
Nope, you are wrong. JD read this post and the light bulb clicked...
You must mean "click, click, click, clicked". :)
...and he said it 4 times to make sure we got it. Like phone numbers being repeated on infomercials.
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