What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this for me...
Some are saying Murph is average at best and that his recent success behind the plate is a fluke and given his overall career numbers thus far, we should be looking to upgrade LF.
Young is a 7x All-Star with above average career numbers behind the plate who had the worst year of his career, but had (arguably?) the best year of his career in 2011.
So... Why is MY (or Kinsler for that matter) not looked at for his career numbers rather than just on this season alone? Lots of posters just don't want to see him have as many PAs --which i agree with-- rather than canning him altogether but there are still plenty ready to toss him based on this season alone. Is it his age and we all just assume that one bad year means he's in a downward spiral and out of things to give?
This is not a defense of MY thread so much as it is me wondering why Murphy isn't getting the love I was expecting him to get considering in August and September, he's the only one outside of Beltre I trusted to get things done at the plate.
MichelleAs far as Young is concerned his defence has been delining for several yrs and last yr the offense was aweful! I don't think anyone thinks that MY couldn't bounce back but it's not probable given his age. that's not to say if he were to only play 2 or 3 times a week he couldn't be a productive player next yr.
As for Murphy I think everyone loves what he did and thinks he should have gotten more at bats. but again history tells us he's just not an everyday player and if there is an upgrade out there the rangers need to find it.
What your seeing is more a reflection of how Washington used his players more than a reaction to the players themselves.
The thing to consider is that both Murph and MY will get their fair share of ABs next year, particularly early on, regardless of offseason moves. If MY starts to really struggle, will he put him on the bench? If Murph bats next season as well as he did for a long stretch last season, will Wash play him every day? I agree with Joe, it's really up to Wash and how he uses his players. It is clear that Wash should be more flexible with his lineup and ABs. But will he? If they both come out and play like they are capable of playing, problem solved. Easier said than done. Easier speculated than managed.
Young isn't being looked at for his career numbers, by me at least, because as a player ages the career numbers become less relevant then the recent numbers. The fact that he hit like warmed over garbage last year, outside of a very small stretch, to me is the most important piece of data. What Young did 4+ years ago isn't particuarly relevant for a player in his late 30s.
Kinsler hasn't really hit the terrible portion of the aging curve yet so I'm more willing to write off his year as something that can come back from. But there's a good number of people who irrationally hate Kinsler based on body language and think he is a terrible player. Maybe he doesn't bounce back and he started his fall off the cliff sooner rather then later.
Murphy, to me, is just a platoon corner outfielder. He had pretty noticeable platoon splits till this year. Basically I think Murphy just had the best hot streak of his career and it sorta tilts his numbers for the season. I'd still bet that next year we have to pair him with someone if we want to maximize his use in the offense. And his defense, outside of this year, has always been somewhat average. He's a nice player but is basically about to start getting expensive and is getting old at the same point. I'm guessing this is his last year on the Rangers.
Murphy has a great technically sound swing. I don't think he should hit below .270 until he gets too old to play. He's earned the full-time slot in LF.
If we don't sign Hamilton, don't be surprised to see an opening day OF of Murphy, Gentry, and Kinsler with Cruz seeing DH work or starting on another team.
Young isn't being looked at for his career numbers, by me at least, because as a player ages the career numbers become less relevant then the recent numbers.
^This. Also, if MY were playing at a decent level at say second base, his numbers wouldn't be stirring so much ire. But the fact our DH was the worst hitter on the team for much of the season is something he is legitimately going to take some heat for.
And yeah, you can probably add some personality aspects to the discussion. People see Murph working hard, see him make adjustments (how did he hit .347 with an .845 OPS against lefties this year?), watched him get shuffled in the OF the past couple of seasons without complaint, and hear his interviews coming out of the clubhouse and appreciate everything he's done for the organization. That luster has worn off of Michael Young.
Derek Jeterage 36 season(2010): .270/.340/.370age 37 season:(2011): .297/.355/.388(transition season in which he missed 31 games)age 38 season(2012): .316/.362/.429
Its not ENTIRELY impossible to come back from a pretty bad season. I know it is a stretch to compare MY to Derek Jeter, but that is the closest example I can think of.
It's not that much of a stretch, it's just that Jeter is better. Both of them are contact hitters whose defense has always been marginal and is now pretty bad.
What amazes me about Jeter is how much they play him up there. 740 at bats for a 38 year old shortstop. 159 regular season games. That has got to be a lot of wear and tear on a body closing in on 40 years old. I think between Alex (who hasn't played more than 140 games in a season in five years) and Jeter, that side of the infield will be terrible at fielding in 2013.
Both Jeter and Young are getting paid relatively the same in 2013. However, I would like our positioning with Young, if we had a player and manager that understood his role needs to be relegated to pinch hitting and rare starts at 2nd base against left handed pitchers while batting 8th or 9th in the batting order. Unfortunately, I don't think Young or Wash would even consider that scenario.
It will be interesting to see how the Yankees move forward with their two aging stars at SS and 3B in 2013. Rodriguez looked simply useless in that last series. And, I wonder if Jeter can handle another full season at short at 39.
David Murphy had the season of his career in 2012, but he's not likely to keep it up, considering his track record. He's never hit lefties very well, and it 2012 he came away with a BABIP of .433 against southpaws. That's unsustainable.
I would like to think he'll be included in the Elvis Andrus to Arizona for Justin Upton package.
^^^NOT this. Keep Elvis.
EricGAWD NO!!! Elvis and Murphy for Justin Upton??? Dude put down the blunt and back away! That is WAY TO MUCH FOR UPTON!!! heck they want him out of AZ because he is a cancer in the clubhouse and lazy. I think we are getting rid of Hamilton for most of the same reasons why would we want to trade our Allstar short stop for someone just like him! Hell I think you could probably get upton for Murphy and bag of balls. AZ is looking to get young in the outfield so why give up the world to get something they don't really want anyway.
Someone posted that if MY had been playing 2B all year instead of DH that his numbers wouldn't be that bad compaired to the average 2B in the league. By that logic would the season have been any different with Young at 2B, Kinsler in RF and Cruz at DH? You still have the same players with the same numbers batting in the same order so honestly what's the difference?
Young had a horrible year no question but remember he has been in a Ranger uniform for what 12 years now? He once was our everyday second baseman and we asked him to move to short to make room for Alfonso Soriano, then move to 3B to make room for A-rod, then move anywhere else to make room for Beltre. It's not Young that's doing a disservice to the Rangers organization, its the organization doing a disservice to a loyal team first 7 time allstar. You can't blame Young for fighting every day to have a spot in the lineup, what major league player wouldn't (besides apparently Hamilton)? What the Rangers do with Young next year in my opinion is inconsequential when you compair it to the other issues the Rangers have. If it was up to me, Olt and Profar are on the opening day roster and I want Young in the club house everyday to help with their development, I'd say trade Elvis to either fill the farm system or bring in a big time pitcher.
What does Mike Young being in the clubhouse have to do with the development of Olt and Profar? Young can contribute to their development best by not taking playing time away from them.
And besides, athletes get everything the team owes them when they cash their paychecks. If anything, players owe the fans who invest their time and money in watching the players play. Baseball is the only sport that relies so much on fan investment. When you talk about what the athletes are 'owed' all you do is advance the spoiled athlete stereotype, and they don't need the help.
Because Young makes 16 Mill and Murphy makes around 3 Mill
I wasn't saying our production would have been better by moving those three guys around. I was saying it's more palatable to have that production coming from a 2B than a DH. If Ian were in right he would obviously be the scapegoat here and everyone would be posting forum posts about trading him. That's the difference.
As for most of your second paragraph....just stop.
Young to the bench and gets a few at bats as a PH or 2nd baseman against lefties. Kinsler packaged in a trade. Gentry and Martin share CF. Cruz plays DH. Profar starts at second until Elvis is traded or signs elsewhere. Murphy continues as a backup at RF, LF and DH. Rangers acquire a number 2 SP and a corner outfielder. Rangers win the world series. Simple, eh?
One bit of clarity, don't forget MY VOLUNTEERED to move to SS when AROD was sent packin. He also bitched about going to 3B when the team moved him there. He cannot be realistic about whats best for the team, and Elvis is clearly superior to MY at short. (Side note, the last 3 years, we have travelled to Suprise AZ for spring training, and MY was consistently the least fan friendly player to the fans.) His best position was always 2b, and he probably would not have exceeded Kinslers errors this year. Kinsler should bounce back next year. Crus is, and always has been, an average OF with a ++ arm, and sporadic bat. Murf-man needs more time in the field, he'd be starting just about anywhere else. Thats all I have to say about that. Sorry I ruined your black panther party.
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