ScoobyDude was the first person on this board (or anywhere else that I saw) to introduce the idea of moving Elvis Andrus this offseason. A lot of the heated BBTiA forum posts regarding the topic spawned sometime in August -- I want to say -- while Scoob originally posted the idea back in May or June. (These are loose estimations, but the point is that the inception of this idea came up a long time before anyone ever really talked about it.)

Originally, back in May or June, Scooby hypothetically moved Andrus for a middle-of-the-order bat, and I believe it was Justin Upton. I agreed with his logic and have been as adamant as anyone in thinking that is the best, most efficient way to handle the the Andrus/Profar/Kinsler issue in the middle infield.

Lately on this board, and most recently in an article MJH wrote on BBTiA, the target in a Andrus trade isn't a Josh Hamilton replacement, but rather a top-of-the-rotation pitcher. (David Price has been mentioned.) Since then, I feel like I've seen more people in favor of trading for a TORP than a MOTOB, and I don't particularly agree, because I find the hole in the lineup to be more important than a rotation spot that can potentially be filled by Zach Greinke (who will most likely be the main/only player we go after during the impending free agency period).

Anyway, I'm curious. If Andrus gets traded, are you more interested in an arm or a bat?

In a gesture of goodwill, I'll respond...

For my money, If there is one bat in baseball, bar none, that I would want to have it is Giancarlo Stanton. I know the hurdles that would be in front of that. The Marlins already have a shortstop and it would take perhaps a third team and a ton of our prospects but that's my baseball wet dream.

Since that's not exactly feasible, there are two scenarios that I'd love to see: 1) Trade Elvis and prospects for Price, sign Greinke, and perhaps deal for Justin Upton with a deal centered around Olt, or if not Upton, some other bat that JD likes.

Scenario two that I'd be in favor of is keeping Elvis and putting Profar at 2nd, signing Greinke and dealing Kinsler for whatever. I'm not exactly sure how JD would handle the outfield, perhaps still dealing for Upton with a deal centered around Olt.

I'm in favor of dealing Elvis or keeping him and pairing him with Profar, I'm just excited to get the Hot Stove burning.

If Elvis could get a true TORP, you go get it. The starting pitcher is the most important piece in any game and there are very few in really good ones the game. For that reason, Elvis is unlikely to get you a real TORP without top prospects added in.

Trade Kins.

To me it boils down to whether I would want Justin Upton or David Price. That's a simple question for me to answer, and it's David Price. The money they would have spent on Greinke can be used for other FA bats to replace production. If they signed someone like Ortiz or Swisher it would bring in production for less than Josh would cost I would think. But I don't think all things being equal that Elvis can land Price without more pieces added in. Olt and Andrus to AZ would be a pretty good package to land Justin Upton.

I think when you look at the farm, it looks like we really need more MOTOB. Even though our best prospects are position players, there are no MOTOBs in the short term. Once we lose Josh, all we really have is Beltre. People can talk about Cruz, Kinsler, or Murphy all they want, but they are all career ~wRC+ 110ish guys, who are in the decline phase of their careers. We need someone hitting with Beltre to keep the offense going, and I don't see the answer in FA.

Folks think bats are easy to get in FA, but those days may be gone with PED testing.

I would definitely prefer a TORP, that said either would be fine. If we could package a deal for any of the following I would be a happy camper:
Braun, Stanton, Kemp, Heyward, Cabrera... (J Upton, Cargo only if we sign Greinke)
Hernandez, Price, Kershaw, Verlander.... (Johnson, Kennedy only if we sign Greinke)
And yes I realize some of those are never going to happen but I would trade the farm for the first three names on both lists.

I also really like Salvador Perez from KC could shore up the catching issues for years to come.

@Marktown I appreciate it.

@Jim Fuck off.

@DJ Cahill I agree that we don't have that many bats. Pretty much the entire collection of potential big bats is concentrated in the low-A and rookie leagues. Names like Gallo, Beras, Guzman, Mazarra and Alfaro are all between 3 and 4 years away at the earliest. By that time Cruz will be out of the organization, and Kins and Beltre will just about be done. I'm not saying we have a bunch of future number 1 pitchers hanging out in AA and AAA, but we seem to have a decent amount of future 2-4's, which can still be valuable. Price would be great, but I think Greinke is the real key to our offseason. Signing a pitcher without having to give up a big return of our future is worth the $20M+ price tag.

I know mlbtraderumors isn't gospel, but Kirk Gibson of the Diamondbacks said that there would be interest in A-Rod in their organization. They appear to be desperate for a third baseman.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/west-links-adams-wilson-a-rod-dbacks-rangers.html

I really don't think we'd have to give up Andrus to get Justin Upton, I think if the deal centered around Olt the deal could get done. Then we could trade Kins for anything or move him to the OF to make room for Profar at 2nd. Or, we could move Andrus and prospects for Price and roll with Profar at short. Dealing for Upton and Price in one offseason would get our farm system shot to hell, but damn we'd be looking good for next season.

Plus I'm all for signing Greinke. Price, Upton and Greinke would be a great offseason IMO. Then we can shore up the bench , (Freddy Gonzales, Marco Scutaro, Adam Kennedy, Eric Hinske, to name a few FA's) I don't know if we'll need a 4th outfielder. But the offseason is definitely a good thing for the Rangers this year. The holes we need to fill are fillable. Plus, I'm not a Swisher fan. The Yankees have said they are going to make him the qualifying offer and I really don't want to give up our 1st round pick for him.

Here's a list of potential free agents I found.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=177

Good times ahead for this club!

If Andrus will not extended his contract, include him in a trade for David Price. Then sign Greinke.

Why do so many people think Greinke will sign here? We're really going to outbid the crazy Arte Moreno? I don't believe he's even on the same level as the guys whose contracts Greinke's will most likely resemble.

Andrus for Upton is probably a good trade based on strengths/needs but a bit harder to sell the fanbase on than someone like David Price. If he's available you make that deal.

The team will need offense but there are many ways to get that. The Rays almost made the playoffs with no discernible MOTOB other than Longoria who missed 85 games. They're an extreme case but it just shows the value of great pitching.

This may be a sore subject but has anyone thought about what St. Louis would give up for Andrus? They have a ton of promising young arms and some legitimate power hitters. Kozma is nothing special.

@Jondar

Greinke has said he's going to test the market, so there's more hope than you might think. He's kind of holding the Angels hostage, because they'll be declining the options of Dan Haren and Ervin Santana without even knowing if they'll be able to retain Greinke. It would be fascinating if both those guys walked and Greinke came to Texas.

Matt Cain got a 5-year/$100M extension, with a $21M team option for a sixth year. Cole Hamels got a 6-year extension worth $132M, with an option in year seven worth $20M-$24M depending on incentives.

The market dictates that somewhere between/along those lines is where Zach Greinke's contract is going to sit.

From 2010-2012, Greinke's xFIP was 3.17, better than Cain's 3.87 and about exactly equal to Hamels's 3.18. So, based off the data, Greinke is definitely on the same level as both of those guys. His fWAR between those years was 14.2. Cain was at 13.9; Hamels at 13.0.

Eric:

Do I not have the right to post here? Let me know as soon as possible.

If someone told me to FUCK OFF I'd be asking for their address. What's the matter with him?

Trade Andrus for Price, although talk on MLB is Shields Pick up Upton, but BJ instead of Justin. Both K to often, keep in mind Josh is not yet gone, and it would be foolish for a team after the Werth, Dunn deals to offer 5/100, especially when Pujols was not a 100% success, though his end numbers were not bad. If Andrus, who will continue to keep improving and a strong positve on any team with off the chart intangibles, so Price is not as much a reach as it may seem. The Rangers would then go with a 1,2 of Martin and Profar, and the end result may even be a better fit then Kins and Elvis, and over-all not losing any power, but eventually a greater ba and ob, and drop Kins back to #6. An order of: Martin,Profar,Josh,Beltre,Cruz/Murph,Kins,MY/Murph,Moreland and Arencibia will do alright. And if Josh is gone to the Brewers, then sign Ortiz or BJ for #3.

Price is right. If we're gonna deal Elvis it should be for a TORP.

And I agree with Marktown about approaching Arizona with an Olt-based offer instead of Elvis.

Im gonna go out on a limb here, but how about a deal that centers around Kinsler/Olt for J.Upton/Prospect arm. If its the right prospect maybe throw in someone like Sardinas to get it done.

Kinsler went to college in Arizona and would possibly be well recieved by the fanbase. People have alluded to they are both similar in their home/away splits. This puts an outfielder here with great upside. Hes young and contract friendly. It frees up dollars to go after Grienke hard. Creates space for Profar to play thats essentially "Wash-Proof". Arizona gets a young 3rd baseman they are seaking, one of the better 2nd baseman, and an excellent SS prospect (if the give up a decent arm prospect).

Whos says no? And why?

Why does the moderator of this site allow certain posters[eric] to post on here with impunity? Guys like eric are gonna ruin this site for all of us. I've only been aware of this site for a short time and it's obvious he needs to be taken down a notch. His postings are infantile at best and plagiarized from other sites at worst.

His postings are infantile at best and plagiarized from other sites at worst.

This is ridiculous. If you think my postings are infantile, that's fine, but plagiarized? That's too far. If you were on this site longer you'd understand Jim posts under the mask of several aliases and does nothing but troll. He offers nothing to the discussion but poking at other posters. Check out any number of threads and you'll see for yourself. It's pathetic. And he does it all the time. I asked one question; I wasn't trying to take this into a trade Elvis/trade Kins debate.

I don't understand how every time I post a new thread in the forum it turns into a pissing match. I'm not beyond reproach; not even close. I give nothing but love to people until they start talking shit. I can't wrap my head around why I don't get the same respect back from some of you.

For whatever it's worth, I've got no beef with you Eric. Never have. I think you're a positive contributor here. We disagree on baseball issues sometimes but that's the point of having the discussions. If we all agreed then there would be nothing to talk about.

All that being said, if I only read this thread and digest these posts in isolation away from whatever past arguments you've had with Jim... I have to be candid and say that I think you responded too harshly by telling Jim to fuck off. All he said was "trade Kins"... that doesn't really warrant such a dramatic response. Ignore it, debate it, or agree with it... but don't let a comment as simple as "trade Kins" get under your skin.

Allright everyone, let's meet down at the campfire at midnight and sing "Kumbaya" while we roast marshmallows!

hate to break it to you guys, but eric is right. i don't come to bbtia as often as i used to, not since joey started taking extended breaks for schooling, but it used to be a lot more fun. the blogging content has always been superb, but the expanded readership has brought a larger number of idiots who try to challenge the more established posters, the ones people can actually learn from.

i've never been big on posting here, only when i feel somewhat strongly about something. i don't give a damn about eric's life or anyone else's on here, but in my perusing through the forum threads, the in-game chats, and the content threads, eric has generally seemed like one of the more knowledgeable rangers minds we have on this board. i don't think joey gives him any free passes. i've seen joey challenge him and talk down to him before, like he's equal to everyone else. i think eric is pretty arrogant, but there's nothing wrong with arrogance if it's justified.

i find the whole back and forth game to be pretty childish. eric is the main target of the trolls. i don't know why, but he is. my best advice would just be to stop responding.

The idiot told me to "FUCK OFF". And for you Erica--KISS MY FUCKING ASS

FUCK Eric

Jim does it to others too. I question the kind of life people choose to life, when they only show up to cause problems. I almost feel sorry for Jim and his ilk, but then I remember that he chooses to live life that way, and it just pisses me off. Have fun abusing your right to be an asshole Jim.

Is Revsider and Erica one and the same?