What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
I would like to somewhat defend the people who booed. I believe it was not necessarily aimed at Josh but at the entire events of the season. I refuse to get into things like body language, etc but if fans are supposed to be ok with their favorite team choking away the season and only cheer the players - that is crazy. Also, fairly or unfairly, Josh has done a ton for the organization but that goes both ways. With the salary, MVP, etc. come expectations - if he wants to be a complimentary piece - then that can be arranged in the salary dept. - I doubt that is going to occur. Ive been a diehard Rangers fan since 1989 and I would have likely booed a little at the park but Ill also be right back to cheer them on at Opening Day. No one expects perfection but you had the dropped fly ball so that had to have an effect on fans when he went 0-4, and lets not forget the drama he creates. I think very highly of Josh as a player and a person but the boos were the effect of much more than the typical end of season slump. Michael Young gets a pass from fans (probably unfairly) because hes been here much longer and doesnt suffer from foot in mouth disease. What grief he does get is because of his salary and how much he plays. If Josh gets that 20-25 million dollar a year contract - he will hear a lot worse from fans of whichever team he plays for if similar events occur. I hope he stays here but expectations will always be there.
I do not let fans embarrass me. They can boo all they want. It only makes them look silly. Boo away friends. It's your prerogative.
@Billy, BTW I am not directing this at you --just some of your points seem to be what a lot of Josh-haters or Josh-see-ya-laters are saying over and over again.
...if fans are supposed to be ok with their favorite team choking away the season and only cheer the players - that is crazy. I don't think anyone is suggesting they should've cheered, but it's about being a grown up and just shutting your mouth (figurative "you") if you have nothing nice to say.
I would have likely booed a little at the park but Ill also be right back to cheer them on at Opening Day. THAT is my biggest problem here. People say they are die hard fans but would still be able to justify despicable behavior like booing our most productive offensive player because he hit a slump or they could "just tell" that he wasn't trying. I call bull$!t. You don't have to be dyed-in-the-wool and cheer and support blindly without asking questions, but you can have a little class and respect. You think you even have a chance to attend that WC game if he wasn't on our team? Your chances are 10x lower, that's guaranteed.
Michael Young gets a pass from fans (probably unfairly) because hes been here much longer and doesnt suffer from foot in mouth disease. What grief he does get is because of his salary and how much he plays. MY made $1 more than Josh and was BY FAR a worse player this season. MY has been an all-time hit leader who had a crappy season and yet, I didn't hear as many (IF ANY) boos for him when he botched a play at 1st or hit into a record number of GIDPs.
I think Josh is getting all of this grief simply because he is such a great athlete with such great potential. That's unfair, but just the way it is, I guess.
What shocked me most? Before the WC game, Wash said the team was prepared to “jump on his back and take a ride.” Really his back? Just his?! He can’t control Ian popping out, Young grounding out, or Beltre hitting it deep, but not deep enough. He is ONE GUY. Maybe Josh's exit will lead to this club being a TEAM again and not just waiting around for Josh to drag them into the post season.
God save him if he goes to NY or Boston. Baseball fans can be so unforgiving, short-sighted and classless. I hope wherever he goes, he succeeds and gets the love and adoration his talent deserves.
I booed him, but it was out of frustration. I don't even think it was at Josh. I was half heartfelt booing him, not a full out "Get Out of Texas" but there was about 5 seconds of pure disgust, where I booed him and than I realized what I had just done. I peered across the stands at the thousands booing him, and part of me wanted everyone to stand and clap, but at that same time I was astonished how this hero we had all waited for was ending his story. He wasn't going to be celebrating his last game, no he was going to get run out of town, and for the first time in the last month, I didn't wanted Josh Hamilton to go, but I knew he had too.-Thanks for the memories Josh.
Rangers fans have supported this team in an unprecedented way this year. Even when the team has been bad the last two decades, Rangers fans have consistently supported the team. Look at Tampa Bay or Miami. Even when the team is in contention the fans just do not show up. That has never really happened here.
So, the fans did their part. Three million plus in attendance. All of the parking, concessions, and merch that goes along with it. And the huge TV deal that is only possible because the Rangers get so many eyeballs glued to their games!
And now you say that when a player quits on his team and his fans (I don't need to repeat the sad saga of his season), that the fans are barred from expressing their displeasure? Sorry, I just don't see that. Said player has played some great ball for Texas, for which he has been very well compensated. Along with that compensation comes some accountability. The fact is, that a team's best players must be the best (at their best) when the it counts the most. He was not. He got called out by the fans attending the game. Good for them.
The ire you aim towards the fans should be directed at the players, the manager (and coaches) and the upper management. They deserve to all be booed. The players for not showing the same intensity that they have the last two years (I get that winning makes you cocky, but this is beyond overconfidence). The manager for insisting on his "old-school" style and the GM and Pres for allowing all of it to go as far as they did.
The way this team lost WS 2011 game 6 is a microcosm of Rangers fan history. This team has always disappointed in the end. The real sin was that they actually gave us hope.
Booing.....I have never done it and never will. That includes umps. Serves no purpose. It shows to be a lack of baseball intellect. If I were an impending free agent I would consider the lack of fan respect and sign with Oakland or Seattle for less money. Or if I were Josh I would sign with the Angels just to stick it up the booing fans asses.
A players demeanor when he strikes out is NOT indicative that he does not care. Are you guys saying that a player that breaks the bat over his knee and screams "FUCK!!!" cares more than a player who takes a slow walk back to the dugout??? That's idiotic! You want to see a team or players that don't care? See the RedSox.
Maybe some you don't remember '72-95. 0 playoffs and full rosters of players that didn't care. Josh may have his problems but not caring about winning is not one of them. Playing in a WS with a sports hernia was enough for me. Bring him back! If you wanted to get rid of him you missed your opportunity last year. Only Pujols or Fatty could have replaced his presence and production in the lineup.
OK... you're officially a dumb-ass.
We don't root for Josh Hamilton.
We don't root for Michael Young.
We don't root for Ron Washington.
We don't even root for Adrian Beltre, Ian Kinsler, Yu Darvish or any of the other "studs" who wear our jersey.
We root for the Rangers. And, when a player thinks his importance is so great that he has to swing at everything in the same zip code because, "The fans don't pay to see me take a walk", he get friggin' BOOed and BOOed LUSTILY. Once he learns to be a TEAM PLAYER through the efforts of his manager, the cajoling of his teammates or some other facility, we can cheer for his successes again.
You don't like that? You're not a fan of the team... you're a fan of the rhetoric and the media hype.
Whatever the reasons, I just think its BS to boo your own players. Simple as that. When fans booed Joe Nathan earlier this season when he blew a save - BS. When that player leaves and comes back for the other team, boo him all you want. But, booing a player on your team doesn't make you a fan of the team. I don't think Ian Kinsler and Beltre were like "damn, those Ranger fans are so committed to the Rangers, they boo one of our guys because he looks like he doesn't care. True fans right there - team over individual." Hard to argue that booing a player shows true fan support to the team.
And to me, the biggest atrocity was that it was a playoff game. We had one game, at our park, to advance to the next round. Rather than having home field advantage, fan support, and a raucous home crowd heckling the opponent - we have fans booing and heckling a player on our own team getting booed during at bats in key situations. Regardless of the player's performance or PERCEIVED attitude, I find it embarrassing.
I don't believe I've ever booed a player in my life. And I automatically deduct 20 IQ points from those who do. Mob mentality.
No Ed I think that makes you the dumb-ass. Without the personnel there are no Rangers. I have braved this team through every freakin' acquisition this team has ever made. I have seen every head case, superstar, role player, relief pitcher, starting pitcher, drug addict, drug enabler, fan favorite, manager, gm, owner, mascot, ball boy, ball girl, old stadium, new stadium, strike year, replacement player, came back the first game after strike, announcer, 2 deaths of announcers, Grapefruit League, Cactus League, ect.
All the while since I first saw the players bigger than life at game 1 at the age 7. They have always been my team. I root for the players who put on the uniform. Last time I looked those aren't empty uniforms or video game likenesses of a no name man. If you want to root for a bag of laundry go ahead. The laundry doesn't win or lose games, or put up stats, make the HOF or propel themselves to legendary status. Only players do! I haven't liked every player that has graced the uniform but I pull for them anyway. That's called loyalty not hype or rhetoric.
You probably would boo your own kid for picking grass in RF or for thinking he's entitled of an ice cream after he makes an error for letting the ball go through his legs or striking out 4 times. He does have your talent level you know and no heart for the game. Sign him up for ballet!
@Michelle Hello. Just wanted to respond to your very valid points.
1. Saying only nice things is wonderful in theory, but doesnt always occur in practice. Booing is an emotional response to the particular situation - was Josh singled out unfairly - yeah probably but unfortunately it comes with the territory of being the leader/star of the team. Booing is not despicable - its freedom of expression. I tried to make it clear that I wasnt reading body language or discussing a slump per se but MVP's get treated differently - fairly or unfairly. I also have a very mixed reaction to the statement about being in the WC without Hambone - St.Louis seems to be doing ok without Pujols and its not like Josh hasnt missed tons of games the last 3 years so winning without him has been accomplished.
2. Regarding Michael Young - thats why I said he got a pass unfairly. He shouldnt have been in the lineup nearly as much but thats a Washington issue more than a Young issue. Also, I really just think the boobirds were in response to events of the past week. I would like to think most fans would not have done so under similar circumstances if they had just lost in a different fashion. It is one thing to lose and another to be labeled as a bunch of choke artists. Again - is that label fair - not completely - but it is hard to say there was not some degree of choking involved by pretty much the entire club, Wash, etc.
I know the players did not give up and just ran out of gas - Hamilton included. Im looking forward to the Hot Stove moves and will be ready next year. Go Rangers.
He quit on the team. There is nothing worse to be said about a player than that! Booooooooo!!!!!!!!
I guess I'm not up on the unwritten rules of fandom these days.
Can you please clarify...if a great player tanks it so bad you wonder If he's throwing the game, appears generally uninterested and blows a routine play so horribly no one can even explain what happened..
...applaud?...cheer?...shout out encouraging words?
Just trying to clarify this as we apparently are blessed to be in the presence of the Olympic committee on fandom here. I also am happy to now know that all of us that would prefer to express frustration could not possibly have been fans prior to 2010. This is a major relief to me as I had previously thought I may have wasted years of my childhood staying up late with my crappy radio listening to WBAP 820 radio broadcasts for west coast games, wondering why Scott fletcher and Pete o'brien weren't all stars and hoping Geo Petralli could become a full-time player after he signed my catchers mitt at a day camp in old Arlington stadium. Glad to know none of that ever happened!
You know when you're in the middle of a bad breakup and everything seems like it's gone full Lovecraft?
That's kinda like what this Josh Hamilton situation is like. It's like if H.P. Lovecraft wrote a book about a breakup between two homosexual jewish people who told the Outer Gods that they're African-Americans. (And I should probably mention that HP Lovecraft was horribly racist)
Trying to wrap my head around how messed up this whole thing got is just straight up bad for my sanity.
CJ, I guess it depends on how cynical that you want to be. If you really had to wonder whether someone like Josh threw the game then boo your ass off. But since you took a sarcastic approach to your question then let me ask you, what reaction, sentiment, temperament, public display of emotion would you like to see when they make an error? I mean, this is about you or fans like you. What is it that you need to see that makes you say, " wow! he just slammed his fist into the water cooler and broke his hand! He must really care!"
While I am not so much embarrassed by Rangers fans, I believe that everybody was frustrated at the situation. If you were at the ballpark paying good money to watch your favorite team try to make the playoffs and then having to watch the team's "star" player go 0-4 and have body language which conveyed that he didn't care, you have the right to voice your frustration. While I do not agree with the booing like many have already said, I believe its the fans right to react.
However I am embarrassed by Josh Hamilton's reaction to this. Him being the religious person that he is goes and uses the bible verse which says, "If they don't receive you in a town, shake the dust off your feet and move to the next." I pretty sure that the team and its fans for the most part received him with open arms, accepting that he is an amazing player. The fans and team put up with a lot of strange things that have happened to him and have been fully accepting but when the fans boo he believes he is not well received. Josh handled the situation well for the most part but he did not have to go out and demean the fans with that verse.
Either way I wish josh the best where ever he ends up.
I support the booing. The fans are under no obligation to support an underachiever who 90% of the time doesn't even look like he gives a shit. The man racked up over 3 WAR in the first 2 months of the season, and then finished the YEAR at 4.1. Thats just nuts.
I really have no problem with the fans of the teams I root for ever booing. I would much rather be part of a fan base that does that than one that acts indifferent when things go wrong. Or, worse yet, cheers.
I'll tell you what embarrasses me: Fans who create a false hierarchy of fandom to make themselves feel superior to other fans. That is absolutely despicable. We are all here because we love this team. How dare any fan judge, scold, and shame other fans who don't express or experience that love they way he thinks they should.
You are not a better fan because you don't boo. You are not a better fan because you go to 12 games a year instead of 11. You are not a better fan because you live and die by WAR and shun RBIs. You are not a better fan because you've been following this team for 38 years instead of 37.5.
Get over yourselves.
It's not a matter of hierarchy, it's a matter of respect and appreciation. It does show something about your loyalty to the franchise, and of your knowledge as to what's going on. Trying to relate the Josh Hamilton case with Michael Young's is completely bollocks. Young has been largely overrated and overvalued by the general fan base, even in his best years, and Josh Hamilton -- when healthy -- has been one of the most potent offensive contributors in all of baseball.
I don't feel superior saying this. It's just a matter of principal. I mean, do you remember a couple weeks ago when Joe Nathan had a clunker of a 9th inning, and blew the save? Fans booed him. Is one bad performance justification for booing a pitcher who had, up to that point, been one of the top-3 closers in the American League up to that point? No. It makes the fans that booed him stupid fans. Clueless fans. Unappreciative fans.
Now, I understand the frustrations with Josh, and I know his case is separate from that of Joe Nathan. Josh is always going to be cursed by his talent level. Much more is expected from him than Michael Young, which is why no one booed Michael Young over the course of the season, even though he was much more deserving of it.
It's not an indictment on Hamilton and all the value he's produced for the franchise in his five years here (including putting the Rangers on the map), and it's not an indictment on the fans you consider to have a superiority complex.
This one is on the fans who booed.
Get over it. In my job, if I am not performing, and especially if it appears that I'm not giving my all, I can expect to be corrected for it. At the end of the day, I have a job to do, I'm being paid for it, and the responsibility is mine to get it done.
Now you might argue that it isn't the fans job to hold Hamilton accountable. You might argue that he was trying, that he is a professional and cannot wear emotion on his sleave. And that's fine, but like it or not he is an entertainer as well as an athlete. If he flails at the plate, he would do well to know there are 50,000 people in the stadium watching, and millions more at home. These people aren't his boss, per se, but they are the people who make his salary possible.
If he doesn't want to get booed, then do your job. If at the end of the day, you try and fail, as humans are prone to do, then look like you tried. Because perception is reality. I perceived a guy who was undisciplined and undprepared. Maybe I was wrong, but that's the impression Hamilton left me with.
I was at the game and it was not a 'small group of fans' it may have been several small groups of fans scattered throughout the park but it certainly wasn't just the people sitting down near CF.
I too was completely disgusted by it. You don't boo your own players. Ever. But especially not during a win or die playoff game.
Fans have every right to boo when effort is question. I don't care if we go 0-162. All I ask for is focus, effort, and intensity.
I cheer for the laundry...not the player. If I were to boo, it would be for lack of effort or engagement, not lack of production. If I'm going to emotionally and financially invest, I have a right to expect that I get a return on that investment, even if it is a loss. If I don't get that return, then I have a right to express my opinion.
I have been a Rangers fan for 30+ years now and I would not "boo" any of the Rangers, if they said player was leaving it all on the field. That said, the fans that did "boo" Josh have every right to do so. We don't know if Josh was giving it all during the WC game or not, it certainly looked as if he wasn't. But, I think the booing was an accumulation from the past two weeks when it looked as if Josh had checked out of the season.
When is it appropriate to "boo" a player from the team you are a fan of? I remember Dean Palmer being booed every time he came to bat. I remember Bobby Witt being booed leaving the field after a bad start. So if Josh deserves "cheers" for a home run, why doesn't he deserve a "boo" if he kills an rally with a horible first pitch swing that is turned into a double play. If great play = cheers, why doesn't bad play = boos?
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