I think Joker is joking when he states that Profar should start 2013 in the minors. He's our nr.1 for God's sake, and he doesn't have to proof anything in he minors! History has proven that you can't hold superior talent down. We talk as if we forget that the kid is by far our best prospect, and that everything Elvis has done, he has done better.

Nompton, How bout a HOUSE & a

Time Share in Galveston?

You can fuckin say whatever the stumble-fuck you want on this fuckin forum.

Doesn't make your argument better :)

I like Arencibia but straight up for Kinsler is too rich. Toronto would have to include Lind or Janssen for me to bite.

Carlos, others here have taken pains to answer your question thoroughly and respectfully. If you don't understand the answers and rationale, I am sorry but that is not their fault. If you don't understand you are being an ass and never deserved a response to begin with. Call in to Galloway tomorrow; he will give you some dumbass answers.

What about some names? Maybe you dont understand the QUESTION. After all it was in ENGLISH dumb ass

I have no dog in this fight. But it seems rather simple and straightforward. I think Carlos just wants to get opinions on who you think would be available for Kinsler. Personally if Toronto offered Arencibia-I'd do that in a heartbeat and plug in profar.

What team are we trading Kins too? I can't tell you who we will get if I don't know who we are trading to,

Carlos is trolling. He needs to understand that being a prick before he gets an answer is being a dick. Ok for him to be one but not who he asks? God, I should have not checked the board today. I get tired of assholes like you Carlos. Don't bother replying. Hope your trade for Kinsler works out. He has sucked lately.

My God-I give up. How stupid are you people?

In your opinion WHO do you think we could get for Kins? What Kind of package? If your too stupid to figure that out-then God help you.

A prospect is what you'd get for Kins. A pretty good one, I think. Maybe if you were into solid-but-overpaid #4 SPs you could get one of those. Ted Lily? Basically you'd get the kind of guy you could easily just sign in free agency of you we're willing to pay for it. You would essentially be salary dumping Kinsler.

Kinsler has more value to the Rangers being paid to play 2B than as a trade chip. Conversely, Elvis probably has much more value to the Rangers as a trade chip because Profar's best position from a WAR perspective is easily SS. I just don't see how you replace Josh's bat while keeping Elvis.

Carlos, I'm not sure if you're trolling or dense, but you did a damn good job at pissing off some of the absolutely brightest and most informed minds of the BBTiA community. If you don't want to take the time to understand what we've laid out infront of you in the simplest terms imaginable, then you have no business harassing us for "NAMES NAMES NAMES NAMES NAMES."

I'm right there with you Liver, I was hoping the boards would be a catharsis after a rough week of baseball... boy I was wrong. Time for a break.

...and now, Dr. Salmon is gone.

I saw something in DMN about maybe Kinsler and Perez for CarGo. I like it, but I think they have to probably sweeten the pot further.

Thnx Michael-finally someone who can read abd decipher a post.

Nompton-brightest minds--ur kidding--RIGHT?? Oxymoron??

Honestly if the Rockies were willing to do that, then I would go for it. Cargo and Kinsler are both guys that suffer serious home/road splits. Kinsler would kill it in Colorado, and Cargo is signed through 2015. But I don't really know how feasible this deal would be.

Just a thought, here...why in Gods' name would we want to trade a yound 2nd baseman such as Kinsler who is an All star? Because he's not a good leadoff hitter? He was put into that spot because there was nobody else who could! Because he's had an "off" year batting and fielding? With a WAR of 3 in his worst season in years? How many other players have a WAR of 3 in their expected off year?
Maybe you are saying that averages and expected levels of fielding aren't valid? That throws all SABR stuff out the window. What I really like is how everyone expects to throw two or three players at "NAMES" that they haven't even thought of yet. Kinda sounds juvenile, like a 7 year old who wants a new toy just because hasn't played with it yet.

You forget, we are losing or NEED to replace Andrus, Hamilton, Cruz, Young, Napoli, Adams, Dempster, Oswalt just to name a few. What happened to Perez, Martin, Olt and Profar? Point is, no rookie is a given. Do what all you jackwagons would have the Rangers
do and we'd have Beltr at third....and who else?

i would trade kinsler because he sux

Hunter Pence

T.O. hush, you're bringing common sense and logic into this topic.

Nompton
Take your meds

"You would essentially be salary dumping Kinsler."

As usual, Scooby's right on this. I think if a GM called JD up today and said "Ill take Kinsler and his contract and throw in a free breakfast at Denny's," then JD's response would be, "Kinsler's on the next plane to your town. Keep the free breakfast, I'm ordering champagne."

This is a bit of an exaggeration. Kins could rebound. But he's coming off a nightmare of a year offensively. And his home/road splits have reached absurdity.

The Blue Jays look like the perfect fit for us. They have 2 plus hitting catchers who can put up Nap like numbers at a fraction of the cost for a minimum of 4 more years and Kelly Johnson is a FA. If trading Kins for one them meant I could resign Elvis and let Napoli go, I'm all for it. There may some minor pieces included from both teams (Relief help?), but I really hope this happens. Obviously this all depends if Elvis extends this offseason, but if he does this is a "win-win" for both clubs.

The SF Giants have pitchers and catchers on their top prospects list, and they have Marco Scutaro at 2B right now. He's old and is a Free Agent after this season. Perhaps Kins for some prospects that could be used to turn around and trade for other vets (CarGo?Arencibia?Gallardo?Shields?).

Kinsler still has a lot of value and I'm sure JD can find a deal somewhere if he desires.

Question: Has Profar ever played CF before? It seems like he would be a great CF with his speed and instincts.

I wish I could put a wager on Kinsler's value for the people on here who seem to think he's worthless. Fangraphs says he's #30 in the WHOLE game and some of you think he's not going to bring value.

I want to package Kinsler with Borbon and someone like Grimm for d'Arnaud. I assume the Blue Jays balk, but it's a good starting point in the discussion.

CarGo for Kinsler is closer than Kinsler plus Perez for CarGo. Have you seen Cargo's road splits (.234 BA)? This is such a standard case of undervaluing your own team's assets it's almost funny.

Carlos:
I understand your question fully. You simply want to know what Kins would bring in a trade. You then get this SABR-metric analysis on why he is not worth the contract that he was given. It's an honest evaluation from their perspective but it doesn't answer your question.

Look all, I understand the concept of creating the ultimate stat to try to determine a quantifiable value of a player as it relates to his playing ability. What you CAN'T do with those stats is determine what a specific player means to an organization as it relates to ticket sales and merchandising. Moreover, you can't measure a players heart and the value he brings to his teammates and the clubhouse.

I also take issue to one reply saying that the GM's that JD will be trading with care about WAR and Sabermetrics. Some will and some won't. Just as in politics has Liberals, Moderates and Conservatives, baseball has purist, moderates, and SABR-metrics.

Carlos the thing to do is first understand each GM and their belief in SABR-metrics, the need for a leadoff hitter, the need for a 2B, and the ability to take on payroll.

SF, LAD, Miami, ChiCubs, Tor, ChiSox, and Atl will be the teams to watch for. Incidentally you can bet those will be the same teams that look at Josh. As to what would be the return depends on what Texas needs/wants in return.