...and Texas loses in the one-game playoff, does Wash get fired?

I'm sure that many will argue that you don't fire a manager who took you to back-to-back WS appearances, but I think that one can validly argue that Wash has generally done a pretty poor job this season. In the past few seasons, Texas easily won a bad division by having a huge advantage in the talent department. This season, the division isn't just collapsing and allowing Texas to run away.

If Texas loses the division race, Wash will be grilled (and fairly so) for his handing of:

* MY: going to have the third most at-bats on the team despite being the worst producer on the roster...and Wash admitting that MY could essentially do nothing that would result in him spending more time on the bench
* Profar/Olt: never getting a legit opportunity to produce despite the fact that the vets in front of them have sucked and could definitely use occasional days off (Cruz has played in 152 games, MY in 150)
* Cruz: played in 152 of the team's 155 games despite having his worst offensive season in years and despite the fact that Cruz has become one of the worst defensive OFers in baseball

These are things that can be overlooked if your team runs away with a division title. But if Texas loses the division by 1-2 games, Wash's stubborn attitude will be partly to blame.

I agree utb.

Well, most of that is simply skin deep. One thing that would contribute into Wash getting fired might be if he's clashing with the front office in a detrimental way. We know he's butted heads with JD this year, but to what degree? Also, you have to take into consideration that taking Wash away might hurt the team morale and overall chemistry.

Wash hasn't played it perfect this year. And even if it collapses that way, I'm pretty sure he'll still get the benefit of the doubt. I think the only thing that really irks us as fans was his complete disregard for how bad Young has been. I'm not gonna waste time arguing whether it was right or wrong. My two cents is that he should have been benched, but that doesn't make me right.

The next question you have to ask before you replace any manager is, "Who do you replace him with that will be better?" And better at what? Winning? Wash is doing that in an extremely tough division this year despite his blunders. At relating to the players? Has anyone done that better than Wash? At making tough decisions? Every manager makes mistakes because once in a while they're going to gamble. Standing pat is how you never get ahead.

It's interesting that none of the national writers are mentioning Wash's name when they talk about managers whose jobs might be on the line. I guess that from a distance, everything looks fine. The Rangers have had a comfortable lead all season, so anyone not watching intently might assume all's well. Many of us who watch every game and scrutinize every move are not convinced that everything is fine, however, and I want to believe that Wash's stubbornness will inspire some discussions in the FO this off-season.

MY is carrying this team down the finishing stretch. he is hitting 345/460/590 over the last month. But don't let the facts get in the way of your own personal dislike for him.

So one month of production outweighs the prior four months? Yeah, that makes sense.

11 years of production, then four months of a slump, then back to one month of his typical monster output.

That's the question though, isn't it? Does Michael's hot September make up for the fact that he had a dismal April through mid-August? Does the fact that he eventually did start to produce negate Washington's unwillingness to bench him even briefly, and his lambasting of "disloyal" fans?

I, for one, think we would be WAY better off with Bobby Valentine.

(I live in Boston, anyone who thinks Wash should be fired is an idiot).

Because those are the only two option? Ron Washington or Bobby Valentine?

Well this thread turned into a racial argument real quickly.

Nobody is better off with Bobby V. Ugh, no thank you.

Well this thread turned into a racial argument real quickly.

Well this thread turned into a racial argument real quickly.

Well this thread turned into a racial argument real quickly.

well this thread turned into a racial argument real quickly.

The forum's messed up again.

On the other hand one could rightly point out that Wash has the Rangers at about the same record as a year ago despite A) Losing 40% of his starting rotation from the start of the season, while a third starter has regressed from where he was a year ago; B) Offensive drop-offs from MY and Mike Napoli in particular, but also Nelson Cruz and Ian Kinsler to a lesser extent; C) a running game that has stolen 50 less bases and been caught and/or picked off more often than a year ago; D) a catching corps that has only thrown out 20% of runners stealing against them, compared to 35% a year ago; and E) Josh Hamilton's offensive disappearing act for over two months. Through all these things, Wash has managed to get this team to about the same place it was a year ago. Looking at it that way, one could easily make an argument that an early exit doesn't necessarily put his job in jeopardy.

Oakland lost a hard fought battle today and gained no ground on either a wild card or the division. Their manager sucks and can't get his guys to play when it's really on the line, right? Psh.

"We know he's butted heads with JD this year, but to what degree?"

We do? How do we know that exactly?

I agree there is an argument as to the handling of Michael Young. But, I'm still leading the band wagon for MY, CbPoY 2013. Jeter had a dismal year two years ago and came back last year and this to be extremely productive. MY is too good a hitter for his production to just die like that... he'll be back.

But, could his situation have been handled differently? Of course. But, would that make the handling any more right than how Wash did it?

Profar/Olt are both rookies... if they REALLY WANTED to play, they would have beat down the walls when the opportunity was presented to them. They didn't. They will.

If you are a Democrat, you say plug 'em in... they have the talent and they DESERVE TO PLAY ... jus' 'cuz... If you are a Republican, you say, make 'em earn their way in. Who's right? Where do you get the better players? And, where do you get those players Boston has that have such a sense of entitlement that they don't feel they have to earn their keep. I say make 'em earn their playing time. Spring Training is just around the winter and we'll see how they respond then.

Nellie Cruz "one of the worst defensive players..." ... huh? You watch not nearly enough baseball to make that statement. Show me the stats. I'll be Nellie grades out in the upper half of ML outfielders. Just because the coaches fail to position him correctly in the World Series and THAT cost us a Championship, don't blow up Nellie for that. Plus, again, his legs have been a little nicked again. But, he has managed to stay healthy enough to play all those games where, in the past, that was not so.

I've seen Nellie make some pretty good plays. Show me the metrics to support your statement.

I'm more disappointed in how Wash has handled the Kinsler situation. Ian has played this year as if his confidence has been dinged a bit. He has dived over how many ground balls? He's been picked off way too many times. He hasn't stolen bases this year hardly at all. It's almost as if he is distracted. Is this Profar thing getting to him? Does he all of a sudden feel he's not the best second baseman we have (last year he was one of the Top Three 2Bs in the Game both offensively and defensively). But, this situation has been allowed to fester and Ian's game has suffered for it.

And, Hambone struggling for TWO MONTHS swinging at toddlers in section 306 thinking they're coming in from the pitcher to strike him out. What was THAT all about???

Putting Justin Verlander on the mound in the All-Star Game after decrying the importance of winning said Game without knowing what the MVP/CY's plans were... what was with that?

NOT pinch hitting Moreland (superior defense) for Young not once, but twice in a tie game late against incoming RH pitchers who could not be subbed out because they've gotta pitch to at least one hitter. What's with that?

No... your "points" were not good points. There were MUCH better points to have been made for Wash's firing than those you offered.

Ed Looney wrote "I agree there is an argument as to the handling of Michael Young. But, I'm still leading the band wagon for MY, CbPoY 2013"

If Michael Young is CbPoY 2013 (Cybergirl Playmate of the Year 2013) I'm calling for Hugh's replacement!!

lol - Heff won't need replacing... he'll be dead 30 years and still have playmates in bed with him... !

Originalsenatorsfan wrote: Wash succeeded despite..."B) Offensive drop-offs from MY and Mike Napoli in particular, but also Nelson Cruz and Ian Kinsler to a lesser extent..."

And he chose not to do anything about it. Maybe it was the right call and I'm sure that some think that vets should be given a never-ending leash. On the other hand, some (like myself) would argue that all players have to earn their PT and patience can only go so far. Even with MY's recent hot-streak, his wRC+ is 76...and he is the team's designated HITTER. Sorry, but I don't buy the Tebow argument (ie...his late charges at the end atone for the suck that occurred during the rest of the game/season).

If Wash leads the Rangers to another division title and playoff success, he will have nothing to worry about. But if the team flames out and fails to meet expectations, then his inflexible approach will be called into question.

@ Ed Looney

I don't particularly find defensive metrics all that meaningful, but over the last two years, Cruz has a UZR of -3.9. Combine that with the eye test and I think it's fair to say that he is well below-average (and my evaluation has nothing to do with the WS...though that was a pretty weak effort).

Cruz occasionally makes a nice catch and he has a strong arm. But IMO, he is typically a liability out there.