What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Looking ahead at this offseason, word is that it's becoming increasingly likely that Price will be traded (maybe this offseason or the next, who knows) and if so, are the Rangers in the bidding?
What do you think the Rangers would be willing to give up to acquire Price and would you be happy with paying the likely exorbitant cost?
He's not a free agent until after 2015.
The thought of having Darvish, Price and Holland atop the rotation for the next three years and joined by Harrison for at least the next two is intriguing.
That's an inexpensive rotation relative to the quality.
The question is does that allow us to spend for a FA OF (Hamilton, Bourne, Upton)
I don't know that we want to deplete the prospect pipeline chasing pitching and a Hamilton replacement. So, if we can resign or replace Hamilton with $ and not prospects, then I like the idea.
We've got a pretty nice rotation heading into couple of years without Price. So, if a deal for Price makes backfilling the pending holes in the OF less likely then I'm less interested.
A nice thing these last two years has done is dispelled the "you can't pitch great in that heat" stuff. Signing or resigning quality pitching isn't as hard as it was five years ago.
The caveat here is if you trade for Price (Andrus being the centerpiece of the Rangers' package, most likely) is that with a pitching rotation headed by Price/Darvish, Holland, Harrison, X...would you really need to replace Hamilton? The Rangers would have feasible options via free agency to plug in a serviceable bat with the addition of Price as opposed to having a greater need in directly replacing the production of a Hamilton without the addition of Price.
Also David Price fWAR:
2010 4.1 2011 4.72012 4.4
Elvis Andrus fWAR:
2010 2.02011 4.42012 4.0
Now, I'm not saying a 1 for 1 swap is likely (I wish) but it may not require draining the pipeline to acquire the TORP depending on the pieces involved. The Rays have an almost similar issue with cost effective, high ceiling talent waiting in the wings that the Rangers do, albeit in different positions. The Rangers and Rays are almost certainly not going to be able to re-sign either player if they hit free agency (the Rays are almost a sure lock not to be able to sign Price if he hits free agency).
I would rather try to re-sign Elvis.
But that's because I do not think the Rays would give up Price for a one year SS, when they have Mr. Zobrist. The Rays would get Elvis and some prospects I figure, but Price is their backbone. Idk...Just don't see that working out I guess.
Ryan Roberts is not a long term solution at 2B. The Rays would be trading 3 years of Price for 2 years of Andrus ++. This would allow the Rays to give their top SS prospect, Hak Ju Lee, more time to season in the minors if they do indeed believe in his abilities. The Rays would undoubtedly want Profar instead of Andrus, but that ain't happening.
That scenario depends very much on how sure the front office is that Profar is ML ready.
If you assume Moreland, KInsler, Profar and Beltre is the IF, you've got an unproven rookie and a guy they don't trust yet to hit LHP in your IF. And if you let Hamilton walk and replace him with serviceable, you've got Muphy, Gentry/Martin, Cruz plus serviceable as your OF.
That has the potential (not saying it would be the case) to be a big step down from the last couple of years.
I'd want to know we could add a definite offensive/OF asset before moving pieces for pitching that might be needed for position players.
We have Darvish, Holland and Harrison for the next 3 and 2 years. Colby and Feliz returning mid season. Perez with a shot to be a solid rotation piece. Ogando who has proven he can start.
I just wouldn't want to go Philly have a pitching staff that is weighed down by a dwindling offense.
Fortunately, JD knows a lot more about baseball than I do. He'll figure it out. We're in the enviable position of having ML assets, a growing revenue stream and a good front office. Will be an interesting off season.
Defensively, no. Offensively, possibly - but given the ZiPS projections + the overwhelming majority of scouts' opinions (both in house and around baseball), Profar will be more than serviceable in filling in for Andrus with an even greater potential of surpassing his offensive production. Besides, let's be realistic, is a 99 wRC+ REALLY that hard to replace?
Also, with a starting rotation that consists of Darvish, Price, Holland, Harrison, X the need for a top tier offense would not be as great (although, it would be preferred, obviously) and the comparison to Philly is not a completely relevant one. Texas is not locked into gigantic contracts that would make unloading or reloading player(s) almost impossible.
I still just really feel that we trade Andrus this off season, or we get him to agree to an extension and trade Profar. I think the team is too smart to basically keep what could be two of the top 10 SS in the MLB next year on the same roster. Andrus, a B level pitching prospect, and two more I'd imagine would be enough. I could easily be undershooting Price's value. Its great to be in the situation that Price might not even be our top pitcher if we trade for him.
As far as replacing Hamilton I think its two parts. We can't replace him on the FA market. That player isn't there. But I think we can wind up with a similar offense next year if we can take the 1100-1200 AB that Young and Hamilton have taken together and average them out. IE we can't get a 950 OPS player, but if we can get two guys more like 800-850 we could actually have a better offense overall. I know that's easier said then done, but its easier then finding a replacement for a potential superstar level player. I'm still not convinced that we don't end up with Hambone next year anyway. I just see GMs around the league as getting smarter or being in markets too depressed to afford that level of investment. To me the two major wild cards are Detroit and Baltimore. Who knows what they do when their crazy owners get involved. I think we had a shot at getting Fielder here on a reasonable deal last off season until Detroit gave him that offer.
If Napoli walks too and Cruz has another average season and then walks, things are thin.
Texas has a very good staff and a very good offense. That balance is one of the things that helps them avoid slumps.
Interesting discussion. My wish would be to keep the balance with no significant weakness. They certainly might pull that off in the scenario you describe.
Tampa might also look to move Jeremy Hellickson. To me, they'll either have to move he or David Price.
Only if Tampa didn't already have Evan Longoria, then maybe they'd be more keen on the idea of receiving Mike Olt in a deal. If we concede that Josh Hamilton is gone, then finding his replacement is our #1 priority. The front three of our pitching staff is already solid, so moving Elvis Andrus in a deal for another TORP may actually prove to be pretty redundant. As Tx said, if Price was in our rotation we wouldn't necessarily need to produce as many runs, per se, but we'd also be missing our chance to capitalize on Elvis Andrus's two years of trade value before he hits free agency.
The question then becomes, would this team be better with a rotation of Price/Darvish/Harrison/Holland with Andrus at SS, Profar at 2B, and Kinsler in LF, or would it be better with Darvish/Harrison/Holland, Profar at SS, Kins at 2nd, and someone like Justin Upton in the OF?
I'm still siding with option B, because I value Upton's LF bat > Kinsler, and I can't get behind the idea of having a lineup with no #3 hitter. Even with Price in our rotation, I can't get behind this lineup:
Kinsler - OFAndrus - SSBeltre - 3BCruz - OFYoung - DHMurphy - OFMoreland - 1BSoto - CProfar - 2B
I mean, this doesn't take into account a potential trade for a better catcher, or the signing of someone like BJ Upton to play CF, but even still. While I think that offense would be fun to watch, at times, I don't see it producing enough runs. Maybe I'm selling it short, I don't know.
I can get behind a pitching rotation of Darvish, Price, Holland, Harrison and a free agent of say Bourn, Swisher or maybe, eh, Hunter..... I don't believe Andrus would be here if Price were here.
THE PRICE-ANDRUS "IDEA" IS PURE FAIL.
It's easy to see why the Rangers might be willing to let go of Elvis, with free agency and Boras looming in two years. And they'd love to get Price in return.
By why would TB do this? They wouldn't want to deal with Boras, wouldn't want to give up an ace, and this really makes no sense for them on any level.
David, you would benefit from reading the entire post instead of rushing to the keyboard to type out your thoughts after reading a single blurb -- which seems to have been "Andrus for Price".
There's no fail here except for your lack of comprehension regarding this thread.
You serving cheese with your whine, Txball? I read the thread, understand the concepts, and it's obvious from your juvenile response that your panties are in a wad over your "proposal" being outed over how it would be such a total non-starter.
The Rays aren't going to fully value Andrus, for the very same reasons that they would ever consider trading Price - the looming money issue. And to make matters worse from a Tampa point of view, Andrus hits free agency a year sooner than Price.
The Rangers might consider trading Andrus. And the Rays might consider trading Price. But there's no way Andrus is part of a realistic answer to "If the Rangers want Price, what do they have that Tampa would want?" You're so immersed in player-evaluating formulas that you missed the obvious.
Oh, I get it -- judging from the quality of your post, you've read it and, yet, you choose to be ignorant. Forget words like "if" and "exorbitant cost" and things such as Andrus ++ (or +) gets it done. Nevermind reading the thread, which you haven't done anyways.
But, I gotcha. You're so immersed in trying to be confrontational, that you imagine some sort of "juvenile" response -- and forgot to see the ++ and words like Andrus would be the centerpiece of the PACKAGE. But nevermind that, I have my panties in wad because it makes no sense for the Rays to improve in several positions while also improving their infield drastically and being able to slot in Archer into their rotation. Not that any of this would actually happen because, well, y'know...."If".
Price is worth 2 (two) Grade A Major leaguers!So is Elvis!Price for Elvis/Ott is awesome for both sides!!!
I Love "Elvis" in the Building (JD/NR i Trust)
What does it take to acquire Top Pitching?
I'd do Elvis for Price. I'd then try to maximize that SP boost by going after Grienke in FA to really make the SP a monster. Price/Darvish/Grienke/Harrison/Holland equals dominance.
Andrus and Olt might do it, maybe another lower level prospect or two, and I would somewhat reluctantly hand that over, especially if we could pick up Grienke also to really max that SP upgrade. Picking up the both of them (or equivalent level pitchers) would really reduce the reliance on the offense, and put less pressure on us resigning some uncontracted players. I don't know that only picking up one of those two necessarily does that, and I maybe don't do the trade if I can only get Price.
I think Price is a much more valuable pickup if supplemented with picking up someone like Grienke.
I know it would never happen, but going down this line of thought, I keep thinking about Felix somehow becoming available also. I think I'd pretty much give the farm up, including Profar for the opportunity to roll out a Felix/Price/Darvish front three.
IF Tampa Bay were interested in a swap of Price for Andrus, then I would love to make that deal. Something like Andrus, Perez, and Beltre/Grimm.
I'd also be out on Hamilton (only because I imagine someone will give him 6+ years). I know it doesn't replace Hamilton, but I think if the Rangers were able to find a RH bat that could play cOF and 1B, then a platoon of Murphy and a RH partner could be serviceable for a one year window.
A rotation of Price, Darvish, Harrison, Holland looks filthy, especially when you consider that we'd have all of those guys for at least 2 more seasons.
For Starters let's take Elvis out of this if Tampa were to trade Price they won't want elvis and what they will want is high end prospects. Tampas whole deal is keeping it cheap thru the farm. So any talk of them wanting high dollar guys isn't going to happen. Profar, Olt, Perez are the guys they will be targeting. Since Profar is a "no Trade" guy and they would probably take Olt, Perez, Galloway and a few others to get this done and if you do all that you gut your farm system and why would we do that?I think Tampa will trade Price this offseason but I think the price will be to high to be serious about.
I have always thought Olt+ for Upton and Elvis for an ace. If the best ace on the market is Elvis then I would go the teams with best farm systems on try a 3 way for price. I like Jason's idea of bidding hard for Greinke. Yes, that would be a lot of overkill--Darvish, Price, Greinke, Harrison and Holland, with Perez, Feliz, and Colby unfortunately being blocked, but you cannot have too much pitching. Colby and Feliz show up late next year and will be questionable. And we all remember the staff getting devastated earlier this year.
Would also be interested in Cargo for Olt+ but have not heard any whispers from Denver. Same with Stanton.
I meant to write " if the best ace available is Price"
I'm trying to imagine what the Rays would want for 3 years of Price, and the only thing I can come up with is a Josh type to boost their offense. I don't see Friedman giving away Price for less than a king's ransom, and I don't see the Rangers paying it.
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