What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Q. How much will that performance cost CJ in his next contract? a) $20M b) $10M c) Nothing, because nobody pays attention to ball games in Texas. d) Nothing, because baseball GMs are too stupid to know better.
One loss won't cost him a dime. It takes offense and defense to win. He had no offensive help. That said, the TV guys yesterday sucked. And the buffoon suggesting C.J. is $120M guy is just what I said, a buffoon.He does have the youngest 31 YO arm I can remember, but that doesn't make him worth that kind of money. He hasn't won 20 games. And if any pitcher could do it? It would be with this team's offense and defense. C.J is a 5/$90M guy at best. I hope he stays, but I would not, nor do I think JD will, get into a bidding war. But we'll see.
I'd rather concentrate on the now, rather than the winter. Plenty of baseball yet to be played. Then again, if my boys are eliminated, I'll go to the batting cages before I watch another game this year.
I was mad as hell at CJ last night. But in the end the team lost that game. It's not like the offense put up 7 and CJ gave up two grand slams to lose.
CJ Wilson needs to show up better in his next game or he will get the Tony Romo/ Dirk Nowitzki label. That's pretty good company to be in. Let's face it CJ for all him saying he loves the pressure hasn't had a ton of playoff games under the kind of pressure he has on him this year. Not to make any excuses but to me he lost his composure when that guy got hit and then never regained it, overthrowing and letting the inconsistent strike zone get in his head.
As far as what it cost, probably not the right way to look at, how much does he increase his value by dominating in the playoffs like Cliff Lee did up until the WS last year.
As I type the vaunted Ace of the Phillies Roy Haliday is down 3 in the opening of that series through 4. The difference is he seems to have settled down. We will see.
Dirk and C.J. have actually won something.
Ricky I guess I missed something, the Rangers won the World Series? Dirk and the Mav's were too soft and choke artist until they won last year. Many of our local media even picked the Mav's to be one and done in the playoffs. My point is that until CJ wins a WS he will be criticized with every set back. Win a WS and he will get a pass for the rest of his career. UM and this is still Dallas and while getting to WC last year was awesome it does not qualify as winning something. It means you came in second. This is the Aggies we are talking about here.
By the way welcome to SEC TAMU.
This is not the Aggies... is how that should read.
When Romo gets to the SB, win or lose, then paint C.J. with the same brush. C.J. is no Romo. C.J. is for real. Romo? Maybe a real golfer.
Not to get into the Romo argument but the analogy still works, however if you want someone that has won a few playoff games from the Cowboys look at Danny White.
Danny White is a joke. A T-Shirt of the week at best. Try out his new pyramid scheme, BOD HD.He'd make more money selling posters stating. "You wanna be a winner? Don't be like me!".
Spare. If my career was defined by "No, Danny, no!". I guess I'd resort to such Tomfoolery.
If the Yanks don't win the WS, which is real likely, I think they go $20 mil per year on CJ if they have to. They're bloated payroll is worthless if they don't have good SPs. Boston could use him, but they'll be in the bidding if for no other reason than to get the price up. Question is does CJ want to play in those markets.
$20M @ 5 years each for a 2 year starter with no 20 game win seasons? I can't do it. Holland, Matty, Ogando, Lewis are all on his heels win wise. Maybe not #'s wise, but you get my point. If you somehow don't; If what some / most of you call mediocre pitchers can win almost the same amount? It gives me pause.
Do not mistake me, I want C.J. here. But, he is no Ace. He is a very, very, very nice #2. Holland could dethrone him in 2013 or sooner. Or Perez.
Ricky, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of C.J. to some degree. If he's not a true ace, he's as close as one can be without actually being one, and if he improves next year he will certainly be one. I do, however, agree with your assessment of Holland. He melted down a few times earlier in the season, but overall he's done a damn good job for his first year in the rotation. I have not set a ceiling on him yet. He's still kinda green and has some things to work out, but he should be a mainstay in our rotation for (hopefully) a long time.
I have no doubt last night's, and last year's kind of meh playoffs (1 great game, 1 good game, and 2 crap game), do hurt CJs pocketbook. Through the years, it seems like players who come up big in the post season, like Beckett, get payday's well in excess of their value.
I still like CJ and hope he stays here, but he probably made himself a little more affordable in Game 1.
Andy - I think you're right. C.J. is very close to being one. As close as we've had, next to Lee, in a long time. And a home grown one at that. My measuring stick is this; How many games would King Felix have won here? Weaver? Verlander? Kershaw? etc. More than C.J. I'd bet. He is a damn good pitcher with a hell of a defense behind him and an outstanding offense. If he were a true Ace in my eyes, he'd have won 20 games plus. It's my benchmark. Doesn't make it right. But you see my point.
Speaking of Kershaw, he is in Arlington today. I'd prefer to see him in the stadium across the way in a Ranger uniform. He is a Highland Park kid and good friends with Matt Stafford, also a Highland Park kid. And I'm beggining to wish Stafford had a star on his helmet. But I digress...
So would I, Ricky. Word is McCourt is backed into a corner six ways from Sunday and is almost certainly going to have to sell the team. It's a long, long shot, but since he might try to hold onto it by any means necessary, he might be interested in selling some of his players or something like that. I would not be surprised at all if the idea of procuring Kershaw has crossed J.D.'s mind, and if it's a possibility, J.D. could make it happen.
Next time he does one of those chats we should ask him.
Does it really matter to anyone whether or not CJ can be officially called an ace? Maybe I'm being picky, but I think the term 'Ace" is way overused in MLB. Im my opinion, an ace should be not only the best pitcher on the team, but also one of the top pitches in all of MLB. It seems like the fan base, and agents, need to have someone to call an ace, regardless of what kind of pitcher the so-called ace is. Remember Kevin Millwood? He was the ace of the Rangers staff for a couple of years. Was he even in the discussion for one of the top 50 SP in MLB at that time. Doubtful.
See, to me an ace is earned through performance and not just as a default term for No. 1 starter. Every team has a No. 1 starter, but few teams have an ace. An ace is a pitcher that puts the opposing team on edge, makes them think that if they don't play an A+ game, there's no way in hell they have a chance to win. This pitcher makes the opposing team's fan base nervous, makes them look to see if their team will be facing them during a homestand, and then goes to the game to see the guy in action. Not just to see the guy pitch, but to root against him and feel proud should their team beat him. Even if their team doesn't win, they still have the opportunity to see the guy pitch and have that memory years down the road to tell the grandkids about.
How many aces have there been? I don't know, but certainly not one to each team every single year. I'm thinking of pitchers such as Feller, Walter Johnson, Koufax, Gibson, Seaver, Ryan, Clemens, Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, among others. To me, those pitchers define what an 'Ace' is. Not only the best pitcher on the team, but one of the top 5 in the game during their playing days, and one who would be the best pitcher on nearly every team in the league.
Is there an ace in MLB now? Verlander and Halladay may be the closest thing there is, at least at the present time. Sabathia, Lee, Weaver, and Beckett are the next tier. CJ, along with Kershaw and others are the follwoing tier...No. 1 starters with potential but with a lot left to prove. Felix and Lincecum are hampered by their team's inept offenses, but put them on a team like the Rangers and they could be perennial 20 game winners and potential aces.
I know I digressed from the original topic, but I wanted to put my opinion out there. It seems that by calling a pitcher an ace, it automatically adds millions to the contract. I don't think CJ lost anything from this bad performance, although another one like it may cause some teams to have reservations on throwing him a seven figure contract. CJ is the No. 1 starter on this team, can be a mentor to the young pitchers, and should be paid accordingly. I still think a 4 year/$52 million contract is sufficient, but he'll probably get offered way more than that elsewhere.
Alan really made my point better than I did. Excellent stuff, Alan. However, I think you rated Kershaw with C.J. and that is too low. Kershaw could win 20 plus easily here. And Andy is right... either way the Dodgers have to abandon ship, and Kershaw may well be available. They are a team with 2... TWO... legitemate prospects in their farm. What would it take?? A lot of prospects. And I'd have to seriously think about who I'd give up. But I trust J.D. He had some brain-farts early on in his GM maturation, but has since proven, to me at least, that he is the best GM in the game.
Odds are he will be in Boston next year. We can say this about every good FA starting pitcher because they really need an arm or three.
Boston is in a total mess. Theo may be out before all is said and done. I think DCAggie was right in his assessment earlier. I think Boston goes on a skid. NY may well be what the Cowboys were, i.e. mortgaged future, and Toronto and Baltimore return to prominence.
Agreed, seems like there are a lot of problems in Boston. Francona may be walking away at a good time. If Theo wants a challenge, he could end up in Chicago (with Francona?), and try to resurrect the Cubs franchise.
It would be great to see Kershaw in Arlington, but I think McCourt would have to seek a monster haul in order to justify trading the potential Cy Young winner.
Just to touch on the McCourt thing here, I think him selling off assets as large as Kershaw would be frowned upon by the BK court. I think so many creditors would object to that unless it was for such a haul that it somehow insured the financial stability of the Dodgers. Some attorneys can jump in here but I believe that due to the BK there are lots of people overseeing what the Dodgers do. Not the least of which is the Trustee.
If I was an investor, I know trading Kershaw for prospects IS what would be best for the Dodgers future. They have no farm system. To build for the future? You must. Will they be able to sign him again when the time comes? Probably not. Use his talent now, for what benefits the club. I'd take him and Kemp, given the right deal.
@Jim. Baseball executives are too smart to let one start tell them about a pitcher when they can look at a much larger sample. That is unlike some fans around here who are ready to jump all over their guys at the drop of a hat. Cliff Lee got lit up last night himself. What does that tell you? Athletes have bad nights sometimes. Both have come up big on more than one occasion in October and will again.
Ricky, the Dodgers are probably pretty happy you aren't an investor. Unless someone dumps an entire farm system on them, and grossly overpays, they can get more year's performance out of him, and still trade him. About the minimum Rangers Offer I would take would be highlighted by Martin, Profar, and maybe 2 of Perez, Olt, Erlin, and Ramirez, and might also have some more bodies in it. Unless you can rape a franchise today, you enjoy ~2 more years out of him, and then you trade him.
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