What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
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The Rangers are posed to draw almost 3,000,000 millions fans to an outdoor stadium with no public transportation located approximately 30 to 45 miles from the majority of the metroplex during the hottest summer in recorded Texas history. It makes you think just how many fans would the Rangers draw if the played in an Indoor stadium in downtown Dallas with mass transit access. Could they draw 3.5 or 4 mil? Who knows, Many people say how would they pay for a new stadium. Well i'll tell you the current Ranger Ballpark is poorly designed it includes too many cheap outfield seats. The Rangers average ticket price is $18.60 while the major league average is $26.91 and with teams like Houston $31, St.Louis $31, NY Mets $32, Minnesota $33, Phillies $36, White Soxs at $40.50 and Cubs at $47. The Rangers are located in the largest US market with only one team there is no reason to believe that with an indoor stadium with mass transit the Rangers can draw more fans and charge higher prices. With the additional income they can maintain a top team on the field and pay for a new stadium at the same time. Minnesota's Target field cost about $500mil while Jerry world cost a smooth $1.3 bil some where around a billion would buy a stadium that would pay for itself. Its just something to start thinking about the next time you drive past the old Reunion site!
Yes to new, indoor stdium in downtown big D. No to higher prices.
I don't want a dome like Tropicana in Tampa. Would much prefer a stadium like Minute Maid in Houston...
Its not going to happen anytime soonish, mainly because the current stadium is not even 20 years old for another 3 seasons. BUT, I too wish they resided in downtown Dallas, and that I could ride the train to and from the games.
I've gotta disagree... except for the heat part. If youve been to other ballparks, or go to any other ballparks, I think you'll trully realize the beauty of RBPiA. In my work I've spoken with clients all over America, and one thing i've heard the most (prior to jerry world) was how nice a ballpark we have. Yes some improvements need to be made, but overall, I see no need for a new ballpark. RBPiA has atleast 15-20 yrs left before it really begins to show wear, and then i'd consider it.
Secondly, what is with this Dallas bias? The Mavs and Star are both in downtown D, and regardless of the is mass transit theory (mass transit will never matter in DFW too many ppl own cars. If they want to go to a game they'll go; riding the dart isnt going to sway the deal). My point is unless these teams are winning neither one packs the house. And dont give me that Cuban has the record for most sellout yada yada; i'm a mavs season ticket holder and we all know thats a sham.
Lastly, due to the Rangers winning theyve had record walkup crowds both years. Further showing ppl are willing to drive to arlington to go to the game. My parents live in W FW and I live in Irving, seriously it takes us both around 15 min to make it to the game. Mass Transit isnt needed. I dunno just my opinion. If ididnt own a car my opinion would change, but there are few ppl in the metroplex w/o a vehicle and those without shouldnt be going to games imo anyways. you have better ways to use your $$.
However with that all said, IF it continues to get hotter and hotter each year and this wasnt just some freak year a new BallPark could be needed. I'd still keep in in Arlington. Its home to the rangers, it always has been, and thats where they belong.
Also, why does nobody consider downtown Fort Worth? its much nicer and there's still plenty of space and growing, there is "mass" transist (bus and train)... just a thought. again i just dont understand the Dallas bias
also if youre gonna do indoor somewhat i'm a firm believer that baseball belongs outside. i dont like domes, never will owever safeco and minute maid would be a compromise for me. If they imitated those two i'd be down.
There are obstacles:
(1) They're probably legally locked into Arlington for a decent period of time seeing how it got funded by Arlington taxpayers.
(2) They're making $ as is, and a good retractable stadium won't be cheap, so it'll take a huge taxpayer-funded situation to make the deal make sense. that means.
(3) Dealing with Dallas city politics. (probably a deal killer by itself)
(4) There are some HUGE retail/hotel/Entertainment projects in the planning stages that are going to make that area a big public draw even when there isn't a game at Jerryville or BPIA.
(5) Arlington is centrally located. Moving it to Downtown Dallas would make it a long trip for a lot of it's existing fan base, which is sizeable as is.
You'll need to explain to me why affordable tickets are a *bad* thing. Families being able to see a ballgame for under a hundred dollars (when you throw in a few hot dogs) is, to me, eternally right.
I for one am glad that the ticket prices are reasonable...I have a family and when we all go it gets expensive even when the tickets are cheap...I don't really see a need for a new stadium...A new climate maybe haha...I still think we have a great homefield advantage when teams from the east coast or noprthern California come in here and have to play in our heat!
What's wrong with cheap outfield seats? Keeps prices down, makes it more doable to bring the family. Try to bring the family to Fenway for a game? Impossible unless you're rich. There are plenty of expensive seats to buy if you want them.
I would be at every single game, except for the long drive. its about 45 minutes for me through the heaviest traffic area in Texas, and some of the swiftest roads are toll laden. Its way way beyond time we could ride to baseball games on the trains. Someone mentioned that people don't need trains because majority own cars..... um, what? We want trains so that we do not have to use our cars. Tolls, maintenance, and gas alone make riding a train to a game 100 times more cost effective and time effective. There is no variance on arrival time on trains. Native Texans that have never been anywhere else that had mass transit are ignorant of the great benefits. Why limit your travel choices, the more choices the more demographics you meet, more is better. Limiting mindsets are the bane of public progress.
BPiA is fine for now. You get ppl from Dallas and ft worth its not falling apart. Maybe 10-15 years there will be a new stadium especially if they win a WS or 2 or 3 or go LBJ and win 7 lol
The current stadium is very nice, and isn't very old at all. Moving to downtown Dallas would maybe pick up a few fans that like riding trains, but put things farther away from a large chunk of the fanbase. Higher ticket prices would also keep a lot of fans away. And to throw some numbers out there, 3 million times $18.60 is $55,800,000. I have no idea how much of that is profit, but I know it ain't cheap to pay all of the people working in that stadium during a game or to pay the bills on that place. And that's in an outdoor stadium with no airconditioning to pay for. For the sake of your argument, lets say they moved to Dallas, raised the average ticket price to $26.91 and somehow drew another million fans. That's 107,640,000 dollars, almost doubling things. Paying the bills to aircondition that place would eat into that, as would the additional maintenance and staff, but, to make the numbers round and easy, let's give you the benefit and say they'd be making an extra fifty million a year. It would still take 20 years to pay for your new stadium, and that's going with the extreme best case scenario numbers you put out, and not investing any of the extra money into the product on the field. More than likely moving to Dallas and raising the prices would prevent them from drawing 4 million fans. That would take almost 50,000 fans in the seat every single game. Meaning something like 13,000 more people every night, in addition to whatever it would take to make up for any Fort Worth fans who don't go or all of the families of five who don't want to spend the extra forty bucks on tickets. If they managed to draw 3 million they'd pull in $80,730,000, at that point, even if somehow their costs did not increase at the new place, you're looking at forty years to pay off a billion dollar stadium, not taking interest into account.
As things stand right now, they're drawing from a wide area, and even if some of those people drive a little ways they can still afford tickets for the family. They've got a nice stadium in good shape, even if it gets a little hot at times. There's no advantage to what you propose, so don't hold your breath. If mass transit is as great a draw as you think, then I'd say there's a better shot of somebody putting in a train to the Ballpark/Jerry World area than there is of the Rangers moving to downtown Dallas anytime soon.
To me, anyone who posts such an arguement is not business savvy. Dallas and their idiot then Mayor (Laura Miller) and City Council, who have JWP under incictment, and another who was on house arrest, while his kick-back counter part cab owner rotted away in jail, can't manage "S". A DISD Super who gets convicted and is in prison. Another who worked in Dallas for a few years, but now gets half his salary as retirement in Georgia while working as a Super out there? And yet they lost the Rangers, Cowboys, and TMS. Wow.
And attendance is up big-time, heat or not. You think a dome would make a difference. Ask Houston how that has worked out. Our SP are 5th in the MLB in IP. Try again.
Dallas is flawed. Business people know it. Logistically, Arlington is ideal. It is located perfectly. Jerry knew it. The Rangers knew it. I've never heard Fort Worth folks complain about the drive. The New York wannabe Dallasites can bitch and complain. You want the teams to play in your backyards.
It is a simple matter of intellect. Dallas doesn't have it. Fort Worth and A-town does. Arlington raised the sales tax by 1% and the Ball Park was paid for in no time.
Dallas, go enjoy the Trinity River Project Lara promised you. Go get robbed at the AAC. Have fun in that crime riddled city. Quit bitching and start voting. Whiney asses.
All i can say is screw you "Dallas needs the Rangers" people. Dallas is a horrible town that can't get their crap straight. Arlington brought the Rangers to the area and has supported it well. Sure if they had to do it over again there would probably be a roof but it doesn't make sense to build a new stadium. Dallas blew the deal with the Cowboys and don't deserve Arlington's Rangers. So quit crying, hop in your car and come on to Arlington for a little playoff baseball.
Stadiums cost money. Lots and lots of money. That is why.
First of all the average ticket actually sold is north of $30.00 if you look at the 2009 financials that are available online due to the BK.
Secondly I don't see Arlington letting the Rangers leave, I think they will do what they need to do to keep the Rangers right where they are, maybe in a new ball park or in refurbished RBIA.
With the heat they risk losing 10's of millions of dollars in ticket sells alone every year, at some point this will be an issue.
To me, and this is just me, Fort Worth fans of the Cowboys have driven miles w/o a gripe.
And NOW WE have a winner and they complain?
I flew down to Houston and their nice indoor park. Homeless sleeping underneath it. Pick and choose. You want it in downtown Dallas with the same? Or a secure area like it is? A drive? Or the risk? The arguement is not only flwed, it is stupid. As if you'd go if they were there. EXCUSES! We make the trip. What a bunch of ass-clowns.
I believe you are overestimating where the Rangers fanbase comes from. 60% of the people in the metroplex live in Collin and Dallas counties and drive the entirety of Bush Turnpike or through Downtown Dallas to i-30. I do that, I love going to Rangers game, but its a mighty inconvenience and I would prefer alternate methods to get to and from. I want to drink at a bar, near the stadium, during the game, and after the game, and not have to drive myself. If they would put a train station there for both stadiums then it would be ideal, I agree. Allegedly the parking revenues go to Arlington City so Arlington has incentive to never approve DART. Vandergriff wanted the Rangers in Arlington. MLB would never have placed a team in the suburbs had he not been the catalyst. The Rangers are one of the few in the suburbs. You seem to prefer it that way, thats fine, I get that. There are others that dislike how isolated the Rangers Ballpark is and there is literally no alternative to car travel to and from and no developments surrounding it and no real gameday culture. Wannabe New Yorker or not, there are many Texans who make assumptions about mass transit and selfishly block tax money going toward and alternative to driving anywhere and keep DFW behind other cities of the population. Ricky, in CowTown is a great example of this mindset. (I get most of my experience with mass transit's change on lifestyle by living in Tokyo for 4 years, not NY)
Ricky a stadium in downtown Dallas would be more profitable and more accessible to more of the population.
However I just don't see them doing away with RBIA so soon. It is still an great place to see a game. They will raise ticket prices in the future if the Rangers want to keep on winning I think we all see that. You can't have $120,000,000 payrolls and only charge 20 bucks a ticket. The math just isn't there. However I don't think they have to increase much and I don't think they will until they get over the 3,000,000 mark. The Rangers for whatever reason have marketed themselves as a great family outing, not a great winning sports team. At least that is my perception. Just look at cookie talk and those dumb ass ads they run.
Arlington needs to and probably will invest in public transportation. I have been to other markets where you jump on a train or two and bam you are at a station basically inside the stadium then do the same to leave. No parking cost no waiting in traffic to get home (that's a big deterrent for me during the school year). Plus you get to screw Tom Hicks out of parking revenue!
Two trains one from downtown Dallas and one from downtown fort worth that drop you off near the ballpark would be awesome! I would by season tickets if they built it I would go! Maybe there'd be a way to get an all time train pass for season ticket holders?
Sure you can have a 120 million payroll and 20 tickets. Especially when your TV deal brings in 80 million a year, and that doesn't include the MLB national media money. Ticket prices will go up though, as long as attendance is around 3 million.
As far as a new stadium, there should be a FAQ somewhere.
1) The stadium lease is in effect another 10-15 years.2) The City of Dallas is one of the least likely venues to pull a ballpark together due to their politicians.3) If you live in Dallas and aren't going to games now, its because you are a bad fan.
I can't decide whether to be intrigued by the fact that the poster of this thread did some research into the topic before posting, appalled by the near-incoherence of it, or both.
In any event, there isn't going to be a serious "new stadium" discussion worth having before 2020-25. It has also become more apparent in recent years just how poor publicly financed stadium projects are in terms of being good deals for municipalities, and it is not at all clear whether the City of Dallas would be willing to front the kind of money required to make a serious go of it.
People tend to forget that more than 70% of the Ballpark was financed by the City of Arlington's half-cent tax.
And contrary to popular belief Arlington has absolutely no intention of investing in public transportation. Jerry would loose a ton of money, what it costs like $80 to park for cowboys games. Throw in the fact that hicks still owns the parking lots around rangers ballpark and that's two huge lobbies that will kill any proposals.
Arlington is the largest city in the US with no public transportation. Deep down I also believe it's because the city council is racist and elitist. They equate dart to poor black people and Arlington could really give two shits about that socio-economic class.
I drive from longview to see my Rangers play. The ball p ark is a great place to watch a game and the ticket prices are a major draw. I think prices at least has a little to do with the attendance being what it has been. Affordability is very important in this economy. Driving a few miles from Dallas or Fort Worth shouldn't be a deterrent forreal Rangers fans. My guess is the author of this thread is a bandwagon guy who is inconvenienced by the short travel. And a dome is simply not going tohappen
Club financing is no longer going to be about putting butts in the seats. This new television deal changes everything. Expenses no longer have to be tied to attendance figures because they are now getting 80 mil a year regardless of how hot it is or how far the team is from downtown dallas. Certainly the more fans that get out to the games the better but really in the grand scheme of things there is a finite number of seats available in the stadium and I really don't see a move to dallas increasing attendance a significant amount unless you plan on building and selling out a much larger facility.
Furthermore simply because the lease is up in 15 years doesn't mean that ownership would consider moving the team anyway. Stadiums are built to last a long time. It took nearly a hundred years to get the yankees out of their stadium. Boston is still at Fenway, the Cubs will be at Wrigley for another hundred years, Detroit was in Tiger stadium for three quarters of a century. The fact is you don't build a single purpose structure worth hundreds of millions of dollars anticipating to tear it down and build a better one in 25 to 30 years.
The Rangers will be at RBiA for at least another 25 years and personally I would be shocked if they moved out any sooner than 50 years from now. Population projections from the North Central Texas Council of Governments show Tarrant county closing the gap with dallas by 2040. They project dallas county to be just over 3.2 mil and Tarrant county to be just over 3 mil. In 15 years when the lease is up dallas is projected to be at 3.1 and Tarrant at 2.8 so why would the Rangers want to move their franchise further away from nearly half of their fan base. Especially since a majority of their revenue will be generated by TV deals instead of attendance figures anyway.
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