What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
For a guy we thought was surely on his way to the Rockies back in April, Michael Young has somewhat quietly been an amazing key plyer on this team. Wash said he would get his time on the field and in the line-up, yet I was skeptical. Since that statement, Mike has played in as many games as he did the entire previous year. And with 18 games to go, he will likely play in 160 total games. He has done that only twice in his career, and payed in 162 once. Mikey has had 200 hits or more in 5 seasons. He stands today at 187, again with 18 games to go. 187 hits is 2nd in all of Major League Baseball. He's tied for 10th in doubles in all of MLB. .333 Avg. (3rd in all ofMLB) and .376 OBP (Tied with the likes of Jacoby Elsbury and Jose Reyes in the top 20). He has fulfilled our needs at key positions admirably. He has maintained his leadership in the clubhouse, and always wants what's best for the team. I'd like Mke to be the "Paul Molitor" of this team for some time to come. I don't want to see him in another team's uniform. I want him to be an anomaly in many ways, i.e. a player staying with one team his entire career (I know he came from the Blue Jays organization). A player who can continue to put up similar numbers, even late in his career. I think Mike could realistically hit 3,000 hits if he stays healthy over the next 5 to 6 years. I do think the MVP talk was a bit much, but he is damn sure the MVP of this team.
I thought you was gonna say lewis is pitching BP again...
Ricki in ft worth
have you ever considered going for 100 posts in one day?
Nice to see some recognition towards MY.I like MY, but in "this neighborhood"(BBTIA) he is dog shit. (can't play D, selfish, makes too much money, should not bat cleanup, Cruz much better than him and should bat cleanup instead, he is too snug etc, etc.Love this site, but I definately don't come here, looking for some love for Michael :)Your forum title was a nice surprise.
Well, Steve... First of all, thanks. However, I refuse to be a hypocrite.
I did think Mike's contract was a bad one. I did think he was on the decline. I did think he was a bit too vocal with his new role in the Spring.
Mike Young has been everything as advertised. How a guy can go from feeling like a cast away, to what he has done this year is awesome.
Napoli has made his case for MVP of this team. So has Young. And some say Beltre as well. But who filled in for Beltre? And did so quite well?
Mike is the heart and soul of this clubhouse. As I stated to Moyal earlier, his intangibles make him this teams MVP. 2nd in the entire MLB in hits? You read it all.
This guy is a great guy. If he gets to 3,000 hits, and I bet he will, I don't care what uniform he has on, I will preach for his HOF worthiness. He didn't break into the MLB until he was 24. Crunch those #'s for a minute!
Despite anyone's opinion, if I had to pick a perfect team? Mike Young would be on it somewhere.
There are plenty of MY fans on here. Most of us think he's a good or great player, but don't think he's a god. Personally I think he's a genuine all-star, and I can't imagine the team without him.
If, and this is a big "IF", Mookie gets 3,000 hits, how can he not be an HOF'er? Six seasons of 200 hits? Ichiro will make it. Jeter is considered a shoe in. Young broke in late (24) and if he plays to 40 or so like Molitor? He can do it. The arguement by some, is that Mike's numbers have dropped here and there. I'd argue it's the way he has been used. Put him in the #2 behinf Elvis and in front of Josh for then next few years.... trust me, bro.
I do think the MVP talk was a bit much, but he is damn sure the MVP of this team.
So, it's your position that Young has contributed more to the Rangers' win-loss record than any other player on the roster this season ... more than C.J., Kinsler, and Beltre?
I think, Joey, his point (as with most made for MY) would fall apart if you try to throw WAR at it. I think this more comes "From the heart" all those "Intangibles" so WAR would have no place:)
I can't say I completely agree with the notion that MY is our unanimous MVP. Offensively he's been fantastic, having a career year at 34. He hasn't hit as many HRs as Ian or Adrian, but he's the best contact hitter we have. There's not a pitcher he can't hit, and he rarely goes a game without getting on.
That said, he's our primary DH. He's an adequate infielder, but when they're healthy, there's no question Beltre, Kinsler, and Elvis are better choices defensively. So, that makes it more difficult to qualify him as MVP because his defensive contributions are limited.
And then there's C.J. Comparing a DH/utility infielder to an ace rotation pitcher isn't something I would take lightly, and I don't know if I'm qualified to judge that. You can use stats like WAR and such if you want, but those aren't iron-clad proof of who's the MVP. So, personally, I'll leave it at "I'm not sure," for whatever my humble opinion counts. At least, for now.
My whole point, guys, was to praise what Mike has done this season, given the way it started. He took lemons and made lemonade. I almost didn't even make that MVP topic. I did want to point out that I thought his name in the League MVP discussions on ESPN and such was a bit much. I then wanted to end with a positive statement. I felt like, and feel like, if the players were to vote, it would be Mike Young. Futhernore, it is not who has the most HR's, or best WAR, etc. It is about who is "most valuable" to the team. C.J. is having a great year. Ian will likely be a 30/30 guy again, and will play in a career high in games. Beltre, had he not gotten hurt, was likely a shoe in. But who filled in for him? Ian's WAR is 4.9, Beltre 4.4, Mike's 2.5. War (Wins Over Replacement is a theoretical stat, using a fictional replacement, and is not even a major stat for that reason. There are some things that you can't replace. And I believe Mike brings the best of both worlds to this team. Just my opinion.
Molitor and Young have similar profiles. Similar strengths (hitting for average, gap power) and weaknesses (defensive liability, lack of HR power). But the comp between them is poor, because Molitor was so much more elite at what he did well than Young. Molitor had something like 5 seasons with an OPS better than Young's best, and 11 better than Young's 4th best. Young has hit .285ish twice in the last 4 years. Molitor basically never had a year like that. Molly not only hit for a considerably higher BA than Young over his career, but augmented that with a very high walk rate, while Young's walk rate is fairly poor. Molitor was also a 20 SB guy through age 39 and stole 11 and 9 more in his age 40 and 41 seasons. Young in his prime was never even an 11 SB guy.
This is not meant to run down Young, so much as it is meant to point out how underrated Molitor truly is. Young is having the 3rd season in his 11 year career that is remotely on par with a typical Molitor season (minus the base stealing). If Young can do the highly improbable and string together 4 or 5 seasons like this one (i.e. seasons basically on par with his career best year from his prime), then he can absolutely be a Molitor type. However, if he's going to post a 330 year followed by a 280 year off and on, his bat profiles much better at 2B, even with his defensive limitations at the position. I may be alone in this, but I believe he needs to be a full-time second bagger. That means either capitalizing on this year to move his salary to a team needing a 2B, or perhaps even dealing Kinsler and moving Young back to 2B, if Kinsler could return something of value and also help resign CJ by offloading Kinsler's salary.
I, for one, do not think we should deal Kinsler and put MY back at 2nd full-time. MY is fine as a DH/utility IF. Did you have someone else in mind for DH? How about we re-sign Guerrero or trade for Ortiz, neither of whom I would want in the field ever?
Well, I kind of have a hankering to go after Andre Ethier in his final arb year. Then let Ethier play COF full time and let Cruz/Hamilton split time between OF and DH. Of course, doing so eliminates the $ savings of moving Kinsler, but it might still make the team better. Also, really, when I talk about moving Kinsler in a trade and putting Young at 2B, I understand that Young as a whole is not as good as Kinsler, but the question is whether what you get back justifies that dropoff.
As for DH, if you dealt Kinsler, moved Young to 2B, Napoli to DH full time, and used Torrealba and a Free Agent Catcher behind the plate, and that allowed you to KEEP CJ, wouldn't that team be better than one with Kinsler at 2B, Young at DH, Napoli behind the plate, and CJ in Yankee pinstripes replaced by, say, Feliz in the rotation? Especially if you got, say, an "A" grade pitching prospect for Kins?
My first choice, of course, would be to deal Young and use the $ to keep CJ. That is, assuming they don't have the money to just keep everybody, resign CJ, and push the payroll to $125m. Which I assume they don't.
Just to chime in on the OP.
MY has been really good this year, when you factor in expectations. My expectations for MY (see what I did there) are not very high and he has unveiled the patented PASMY (Past a standing Micheal Young) and the new thing that irritates me about him, is AMYWHA3 (and MY will be held up at 3rd base).
@Scooby Dude: I honestly think that, if any of us had any real idea as to whether they can afford a $120m/yr payroll right now, we wouldn't be speculating so much.
Honestly, I have no idea if they have that kind of money right now. But, unless that whole TV deal thing is a lie or a red herring, they should have plenty of money in a couple years. And, if that's true, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't make a deal with C.J. that they could hold up until then (a back-loaded contract perhaps?)
But again, it's all just speculation until the FO speaks.
Andy makes good points... on pay-roll, I believe the money is there. And not to start another arguement about the heat, but I was correct in that the attendance was up over 5K per game. Last year was up 3K per game. That's incredible revenue, especially when you combine ticket sales, parking, consessions, and souveniers, etc. The owners have money and this team has been a profitable business. Even the minors set records in attendance, i.e. Frisco.
C.J.'s contract, again a good point by Andy, i.r. a back loaded contract, or even better yet, a competetive deal with some incentive deals to have him earn his "bigger money".
But I see no reason why we can't resign C.J., utilize Napoli significantly behind the plate while still getting Tori his time, Mike at DH, 1st, and as a security blanket and time-off fill in @ 2nd, SS, and 3rd.Plus find another possible starting pitcher.
And in 1971, when Ryan was 24, he hit his first double digit wins in his career (10-14). Holland is 24 and is 13-5 in fewer MLB season. Harrison is 25 with 11 wins. These guys, Holland in particular, could really be something. Plus with some really talented youth on the way. Ogando and Feliz's future places in the rotation or BP in question. I think we have a reason for great optimism.
If we keep winning this year RS and PO, making good draft picks, and making the smart FA signings?Don't you have to be shaking your head if you're the other AL power houses and cussing?
"So, it's your position that Young has contributed more to the Rangers' win-loss record than any other player on the roster this season ... more than C.J., Kinsler, and Beltre?"
Did you really just try to imply Kinsler has contributed more than Young this year? Kinsler : .251 BA, .351 OBP, .471 SLG Young: .334 BA, .376 OBP, .477 SLGSure Young doesn't have much power but power is overrated anyway. He has 97 rbi's which makes up for that.
And I don't wanna hear all this stuff about Young being "terrible" defensively. Do you guys really think it's easy to play multiple positions all over the infield during the course of a season? I would LOVE to see Kinsler try to play all over the infield, especially at 3rd base, and see if he looks as good defensively as he does now. 2nd base is much easier to play defensively than 3rd is. If any of you guys have played baseball before, it's a very strange feeling to play a different infield position after you have gotten used to one specific position. For example moving from 2nd base to 3rd base or vice versa is a very weird feeling and takes time to adjust to. Not enough people give Young credit for being able to play any position in the infield. I'd like to see Kinsler try to do that. Young's versatility makes him much more valuable defensively.
I love Michael. I really do. But I'm not sure he's the MVP. What Bob uses as criteria to determine who he thinks is the MVP is different from what Joe uses. Personally I'm not sure, because I'm conflicted due to all the different factors I think I should consider. So, could MY be the MVP? Yes, he could. Is he? I'm not sure. But he's having a fantastic year, and that's enough for me. For now.
Is it really worth quibbling about who the MVP is, anyway? Baseball is a team sport.
How is the team MVP selected?
That was my point. It's different for everyone.
"That said, he's our primary DH. He's an adequate infielder, but when they're healthy, there's no question Beltre, Kinsler, and Elvis are better choices defensively. So, that makes it more difficult to qualify him as MVP because his defensive contributions are limited."
Couple things. First of all I think a lot of you are undervaluing Young's defense. He is not poor defensively and he is not a liability. What the guy has done moving around position to position in the infield is amazing. I'm not sure Beltre, Andrus, or Kinsler could handle the versatile utility defense role like Michael can. Sure they're better defensively at their respective positions, but thats not a knock on Michael. You guys have to understand just because Michael isnt AS good defensively as Andrus, Kinsler, or Beltre at their respective positions, doesn't mean Michael is bad defensively. It just means those 3 other guys are some of the best defensive players at their respective positions in the league. The Rangers have an excellent defensive infield. You guys can't forget Young was our primary 3rd baseman all of last year when we made it to the World Series. So obviously his defense wasn't too bad considering we made it to the World Series with him at 3rd.
His versaility is what makes him extremely valuable defensively. If it weren't for Young, we would've had to play Blanco at 3rd base everyday during Beltre's absence. Could you imagine Blanco in the lineup instead of Young?? Give Young SOME credit for filling in in the infield when needed. That kinda stuff doesn't show up in your little WAR stat. And not to mention the countless amount of times Young has filled in at 1st, 2nd, or 3rd to give Kinsler, Beltre, Moreland, or Napoli a rest from the field. I think Young has had some to do with Kinsler finally staying healthy this year. He has given Kinsler time off at second when needed. And he's given Beltre plenty of rest lately when needed.
So when it comes to the MVP I think it comes down to a process of elimination. No way are you giving the MVP to Hamilton, Cruz or Feliz who have not played up to their potential consistently all year. No way are you giving it to Andrus because his offense doesn't even compare to Young. And I'm sorry but I'm not giving it to Kinsler who's batting .250. I would give Beltre, CJ, and Young the strongest consideration. I like Young as the front runner because of his willingness to play all over the infield and his unbelievable offensive year. He's second in the AL in batting average and will be the first Ranger to reach 100 rbi's. And he's managed to stay healthy all year which I can't say for Beltre.
As I said before... it is not who has the most HR, RBI, Hits, or Avg. It is about who is most valuable, not only on, but TO THE TEAM. Mike has played how many spots defensively? He leads the team in hits and average. Ranks 2nd in MLB in hits. Top 50 in the AL and MLB in others? Leader in the "Room".
Who do you think the players would pick? The sports writers? The fans?
It's an honest question.
Here's your list of the only players to have 200 hits in a season for 5 years or more:
Pete Rose 10 Ichiro Suzuki 10Ty Cobb 9 Paul Waner 8Lou Gehrig 8 Rogers Hornsby 7 Charlie Gehringer 7 Wade Boggs 7 Derek Jeter 7Micheal Young 6George Sisler 6 Sam Rice 6 Al Simmons 6 Stan Musial 6 Steve Garvey 6 Chuck Klein 5 Kirby Puckett 5 Tony Gwynn 5
You know how many of them are in the HOF? All but the 3 active players...."just sayin'."
And we all know Rose isn't either, which is a travesty to me, but not my point.
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