What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Yes. Excellent article. And, despite a few negatives, it indicates in no uncertain terms why he's a key piece in our success, and right now, I wouldn't want anyone else playing 2B for us.
I agree completely... Yes I know he's prone to the pop up but I'll take it. As long as we continue to get the patience at the plate, the stellar defense, his base stealing/running prowess, and that power that is always lurking one hung pitch away. I have never understood the haters, because Kins actually seems to care about what he's doing out there. If he's getting busted inside and called for strikes I love his cold hard stare at the ump like "really...you're calling THAT a strike?" if he blows a play in the field he get's pissed because he expects better of himself, not cause he's a big crybaby ( as some on here would suggest) I actually LIKE my players to play with emotion.
so I'll take him ( body language and all <--sarcasm) I am inclined to agree that defensively he's absolutely as good as Robinson Cano, Chase Utley or Dustin Pedroia. add to that his age and his very manageable contract and you have IMO a perfect fit at 2B/leadoff
@ugotactionTX: Completely agree about defensive ability. He might actually have a couple more errors than Pedroia and Utley, but 10 on the year isn't bad. And he's made a number of plays no human being could be expected to make.
I'm a Kinsler fan and agree with what you all are saying with one exception. I don't like his umpire stares. I think it's probably going to give him a Tim Duncan reputation with umps. I don't think he's getting any make-up calls out of it either. I will say though that he has the best eye of any player I've ever seen. When he argues, he's generally right. He could also be very respectful with his arguing most of the time and if that's the case, then I don't mind it. But the perception is that he's got an attitude and he's been thrown out a few times....
This was a very good article. Can't say it told you or I what we didn't already know. But, I call it great, because Or stated both his strengths and weaknesses.
I threw my points at him from a previous post with the stats, and he was inclined to agree with me and said I made very good points, especially with Cruz out of the line-up. Additionally, he made counter-points to mine, which I respect. He also felt like Wash would not change the line-up because he doesn't like to shake things up, hence my previous statement of Wash being a "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" kind of guy. (I'll gladly post his response to me, as well as others)
Well, it is broke without Cruz in there. Kinsler should be in the 5 hole, and Elvis in the #1.. And the guys who tell me to go watch a game, or I am an idiot, or I don't know baseball? I often don't reply to you, because I don't argue with baseball infants. Those who know baseball respect others opinions or give rebuttles with supporting facts. The insults show me and those who do know, that you are baseball brain bankrupt, and have no other option as to dish out an insult and run. The people I know, who know, simply agree with me. And the reason is because I do know. As do the people I normally converse with on here.
You're an idiot who's never watched a game... kidding. I hate "my way or your an idiot" stuff. Even if they're right, the tone is often juvenile and/or nasty. If someone truly is an idiot, you'd have to be dumb to be wasting time arguing with them.
Tex - You're a man who gets the point of this forum, or even further, adult discussion. If you propose "X" and I reply with why I think "Y" is better, and Caleb or Adam or Andy propose "Z"? We should all be open minded enough to review all the supporting info provided, talk about it, and either come to a consensus or agree to disagree. Or, continue to statistically prove the other wrong. That, my friend, is the fun part.
The, state your opinion with an insult reply, is usually someone who has no clue. The reply with stats they read eslewhere and add in insults and then run, wants to know, but can't go toe to toe with those who know. At least not in a civil manner.
I never claim to be right all the time. I present my case, and on this topic I have a valid one. The educated guys on here get along. We are friends. But with some of the other guys on here? You can't win. Like my opinion or don't? I don't care. If I throw around my past, my pedigree, who I know and talk to in the game? I am either a liar or a pompous jerk.
Man, I am neither. I pass along what I can, when I can. I make my suggestions and post my opinions. Baseball is the purest of games. This site should reflect the same. Unfortunately for us knowledgeable, any buffoon can access the internet.
Good stuff Tex, Ricky in Fort Worth, and companyFor me there is no player that has taught me to trust the use of advanced stats more than Ian Kinsler and now he is hot with his bat.
Chris R - As a Spurs fan, I can only hope that Kinsler obtains a "Tim Duncan reputation" of any sort. You are right though, Kins could probably stand to work on the manner in which he "voices" his opinion on a given call. But, everybody gets thrown out from time-to-time, so tough to get onto him too much, especially when he is usually right on the calls (which is more than can be said for Tim Duncan, sadly)...
Ricky - I don't know, I think that Kins in the leadoff is really ideal for the Rangers, but I do agree that Elvis needs to be moved, just not sure where - but a #2 hitter he is not. The biggest thing that I don't like about Andrus as leadoff (or even top of the order) is his idiotic base running gaffes. To me, Kindler’s OBP and outstanding overall base running skills make him a good fit at leadoff. I know I have put this on here before, but I feel like I have to refer back to it every time the discussion about Kinsler as the leadoff guy comes up:
What about something like this instead (sans Cruz):
KinsMY Hambone Beltre NAPOLI! Murphy Moreland Andrus Chavez/Martin
mhilgtx - ditto on the advanced stats for Kinsler, he is easily my favorite Ranger and it was actually during his 2009 campaign (when he was being berated by many of the pundits for the low BA) that I first found this site and began delving into the advanced metrics, etc.
I could live with that. I'd love to have Mike @ #2, which is where he'd be in my proposed line-up as well. Hamilton seems to tear the cover off the ball hitting behind Mike. Or's comment to me about Elvis, the lead-off spot, and the #2 spot: " I agree that Elvis has become a fantastic fit for the leadoff role. He's a high-average, high on-base guy who's quietly become the best baserunner in baseball. Unfortunately, Elvis' skills as a bunter have also made Ron more comfortable with using him in the #2 role, which he envisions as a utility, runner-movement role. "
Unfortunatley, although several people tend to agree with me on Kinsler being further down in the line-up for run production, none of them want to tinker with the line-up in September, which I get.
Do you agree with the assertion that Andrus is a high-average, high OBP guy? What about the base running? Seems like he gets caught in a ton of run-downs and either gets bad jumps or just outright picks the wrong time to steal more frequently then he should.
Andrus has good speed, but he's not as good as baserunner as Kinsler...yet. I think he will be. I doubt we're looking at another Ricky Henderson, but he's got the speed to be great.
I think Andrus has proven he can consistantly hit for average. Often from .290 to .300. His average now is .276 and rising. Ian is said to be a high OBP guy @ .344. Elvis is at .343.That puts him in company with Howie Kendrick and Jimmy Rollins, thus I am good with his OBP And I agree that he makes base-running mistakes. But I think he is learning. I think some of those mistakes are due to the aggressive approach Wash has on the bases. I think it is fair to attribute some of it to that. He does have 35 SB. That's 8th in all of MLB. I don't think Or's statement is flawed.
Good assessment - it sounds to me like the Rangers essentially have two leadoff hitters...
In my opinion, based on the way a lot of people make it out to be, Kinsler is extremely overrated. The guy is a fine second basemen, great power hitter at that position, very good defensively this year but I don't think he is nearly as good as people make him out to be. If I didn't follow the Rangers I would have to assume Kinsler is going to the hall of fame the way people talk about him. Lets just keep in mind the guy is batting .245 this year and has never had more than 86 rbi's in his career. So while I think he is good, I don't think he is AS good as everyone makes him seem.
And another point on Kinsler, personally I think he is a terrible fit for a leadoff hitter. I would much rather have Kinsler bat in an RBI situation than at the top of the lineup when there is no one on base. I don't see the point of batting a 30 plus home run guy at the top of the lineup, because most of those home runs are going to be solo shots anyway. I just don't like power hitters at the top of lineup, especially guys that hit for a low average and pop out a lot of the time. I would prefer a scrappier hitter that hits for a higher average such as Andrus, Chavez, or hopefully Leonys Martin in the near future. Lets give Kinsler a chance to drive in more runs!
Ricki in Ft Worth I guess when someone posts as often as you eventually the will say everything there is to say. Pretty sure you reached that threshhold when you said Romo was Hispanic. Are you serious -REALLY? I guess Demarcus Ware is an Egyptian. LMAO!!
Ian is a top 10 2nd baseman in the league. I used to say 7th or 8th, but he is climbing.
Likely a 30/30 guy again, what do you want him to do to win your approval?
Here is where he ranks...
2nd in HR's of all 2nd basemen in MLB, only to Uggla. He has more than Cano. Cano has more RBI than Kinsler, but that is due, as you very well point out, to his placement in the order. That said, he does have 2 less RBI than Uggla. Ian has Uggla in Avg. and OBP., and is one point shy of Cano in OBP. And that is in all of MLB.
Now, I agree with you on his place in the line-up, as do many. Many do not, but I do. But "those who know" say, even if they agree, you don't shake up the line-up in September. I disagree, but this comes from credible guys on here, as well as guys I talked to (Or Moyal, Sean Bass, and Norm Hitzges).
Either way you slice it, Ian is a top-tier 2nd baseman in all of MLB.
Hey Fan. Tony Romo ACTUALLY IS of Hispanic descent you ignorant fool.
DeBravo - If you give this hack any attention, he will keep it up. That's why I ignore him. Besides... it is after 9 P.M. Mommy and Daddy have him safely tucked in.
"Ian is a top 10 2nd baseman in the league. I used to say 7th or 8th, but he is climbing.
Likely a 30/30 guy again, what do you want him to do to win your approval?"
What I want Ian to do is pop out A LOT less and hit for a much much higher batting average for people to give him all this credit. I mean am I only the person that doesn't notice Kinsler has the lowest average in the lineup, with the exception of gentry who's not an everyday player.
The reason I think Kinsler is overrated is because I hear absolutely zero criticism towards him. I hear people criticize Michael Young for certain things, I hear people criticize David Murphy for certain things, and I hear people even criticize Josh Hamilton for a lot of things, but when it comes to Kinsler people make all the excuses in the world for him. Like you said, oh well hes a 30/30 guy and his on base percentage is good. That's nice and all but I still really don't like his .245 average and the fact that hes a got a major problem popping out and doesn't hit enough line drives.
Let's not get carried away comparing Kinsler to Uggla and Cano. First of all the only reason Uggla is batting .235 is because he had that horrendous start to the year. But since then Uggla has been hitting well over .300. Uggla also has consistently hit 30 plus homers and driven in 90 plus runs throughout his career. Kinsler has hit 30 homers once in his career and has never drivien in more than 86 runs. And Robinson Cano is completely out of Kinsler's league. Cano is a career .308 hitter and a 100 plus rbi guy which Kinsler wouldn't even dream of. I would take a line drive hitter like Cano over a pop out machine like Kinsler any day.
And let me make a suggestion for the lineup even though you say we can't "shake things up" this late in the year. I would flip Andrus and Kinsler in the order. I think hitting second versus hitting leadoff makes a huge difference. Kinsler would have a lot more opportunities to drive guys in. Look at some of the guys that hit 2nd around the American League. The Yankees have Curtis Granderson, the Red Sox have Dustin Pedroia, the Tigers either have Brennan Boesch or Magglio Ordonez. All those guys have power and drive a lot of runs in. That's why Kinsler would be in a much better positiont to drive runs in hitting 2nd. And Andrus would be a solid leadoff hitter as he was last year on a team that made it to the World Series.
Just amazed at hour good of a ball player he is but the main stream stats and numbers that you see regularly doesn't show it. Frustrating at how the casual fan can't see this.
@ LGR -
I've beat this horse well after death. You must be an occasional visitor. Go to "Forums" and read "Kinsler Haters Beware". I have preached and given stats to no avail about moving him down. Sean Bass has done so most of the season, as he feels his power is under-utilized, as do I.
You are kind of preaching to the choir, BUT his OBP is good, due to walks, in which he leads this team by a lot. He has a tremendous eye. Of his HR, 23 have been solo shots. Run production to me is paramount. Norm's arguement to me, was that moving him down, means less at bats. Well, if he hits a HR with men on? We win that game in Tampa.,, and no telling how many others. Norm also said it would be putting too much pressure on him further down to produce. Please, he is a seasoned veteran now. I hit lead-off. Think there is no pressure there?
I'd have no problem juggling this line-up, especially with Cruz out, for now, and see what happens. The Angels won again. If we spit the bit on this deal, by not making good personnel moves, I'd have no other person to point my finger at than the guy I've been bragging on.
LGR - Another note, Kinsler is hitting for a very high average as of late too!
That said, what I told Or was this: In this world of stats, adjusted stats, etc. I'd like to see an adjusted OBP... Meaning, take the OBP equation and subtract HR from hits in the formula. Normal OBP equation is this: OBP = (H+BB+HBP)/(AB+BB+HBP+SF). If you take HR out of the equation, I feel that Elvis is the much better candidate @ lead-off, i.e. truly on base more. As is Chavez. But truly Elvis. Kinsler has hit 8 lead-off shots in his first PA in a game.
I am kind of talking out of both sides of my mouth, but, yes I want Kinsler further down. But, for now, we are in the lead of the division. For now. If that changes and THEN a change is made? Expect a tirade from me. As if I don't post enough on here.
Actually Romo is NOT of Hispanic heritage. What an ignorant ass you must be. Crawl outta Ricki in Ft Worth's ass long enough to come to your senses
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