What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
WWJDD? How can you set there and hide behind your computer and call other fans of the rangers and bbtia raceist because they dont share your opinion about the manager? They had good points and it wasent just wash who they were calling a idiot it was mike maddux to. So i must say you were the one who said BULLSHIT.
Was he calling them racist or prejudiced?All I know is I didn't have a problem with the way Wash used the bullpen the whole thing happened pretty fast. You were kind of in it then boom it looked like you were out of it. Tateyama has been pretty good. I just didn't see where those moves warranted the kind of venom Erik and Roy were tossing out there. I think WWJDD agrees. Does a guy just not think before he post and call Washington and in this case Maddux idiots as a knee jerk reaction or is he predisposed to think that way for some reason? I don't know but I sure don't think Wash is dumb, he might be ignorant of many things but I think the guy knows baseball better than many if not all of those posting on this site.
What the heck did I miss? I don't remember seeing that? And WWJDD is a decent guy. I got called a racist, and I was infuriated. But I highly doubt he said that. If he did, he must have had a reason. It is a duality of ethics or political correctness, when you can roast a coach or manager, but when it is Wash, it is racist. I don't agree, but I get it. I have made jokes or tongue in cheek comments and was accused of the same. But I never made a comment due to skin color. It has nothing to do with that. I've seen guys on here say plenty about Josh and his drug use. I make one joke about Wash and his incident and I am a racist. Ridiculous. Can we all get thicker skin and a sense of humor. If it is racist, there will be a consenses, and that person will not be on here again.
whatever Ricky we all know better. you hate the Sun. thus you hate that the Sun colors skin in the heat. but you dont believe in heat in texas. that makes you racist. yeah... so suck on that. ha ha ha
good point ricky. Im not saying he said raceist outright it was implied by the predjudice remark because someone called wash a idiot. I doubt some one would have been called predjudice if they called jon daniels a idiot. And that should not be allowed on bbtia. If you have to use the word predjudice in a post you have no point so all i can say to WWJDD is think before you post...
@DC - Now I KNOW that was tongue in cheek!
@RAINMAN - I would say some sort of edicut is due. Never call any man with our team an idiot. You can say it was a bad move or dumb decision or even a brain fart. We all make mistakes. If not, pencils wouldn't have erasers. I can't see how an idiot could take this team to the World Series. Do I disagree with him at times? Yes. Does he mishandle the English language to some extent? Sure. But he is no idiot. Nor am I, or you, a racist. So I say we be more thoughtful before we post, and more thoughtful before we reply. I have been guilty of overreacting, but I am working on it. Afterall, aren't we all technically on the same side?
Okay. First of all, I didn't appreciate the thread title (beyond the misspelling), given that it's calling out a specific person and given its visibility. Don't read a comment on a front-page post and then come over here and create a new post tearing into it.
Second, I doubt any good can come from keeping this thread open, but I'll give it a brief shot and see what comes of it. I do hate having to deal with this crap, though. What a waste of time.
When you make this post at 519 am Joey, are you about to go to sleep or is that when you wake up?
Panthers never sleep. They just cat-nap.
I wish I could have seen the title of this thread. LOL. I used the word "prejudiced," which in this situation was the perfect word to describe what I meant. Some people are extremely prejudiced about Ron Washington. They criticize his every move and second guess him on every decision he makes that goes badly, and then just sit quietly by when his moves work (and more often than not they do), just waiting for the next time the team loses so they can bash away again. That is exactly what prejudice is. No one ever said anything about racism, and if you think that racism is the same thing as prejudice, that's your problem, not mine.
The other thing that I find funny is that ROY says stupid stuff on the game post, then I call him on it, and what does he do? He goes to the forum and creates a whole big thing about me, personally, I guess in an attempt to humiliate me or something. Whatever - it won't work because you are nothing to me. But it does show that you are petty. And prejudiced. LOL
Joey just wants to make sure we are not prejudiced against Latino's that turn into Panthers? Seriously in the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series those folks are called "worgs" and they have there advantages if you get into a fight. Any sword fight is quickly ended when you slip into your pet panther and attack your foe. But I digress.
WTF just happened? lol
did you just go GOTs on us in a racism forum? sweet
Why yes Dcaggie06 yes I did. Keeping with the GOT theme we are going to go into the Dothraki weddings "why so much blood means no white dresses?"
Chill Dudes... let's stay on topic, baseball. If you're pissed, make your point once and leave it alone. This ongoing argument stuff is boring and pointless. Life is too short.
I post frequently about Wash on this forum (and others) for not being a good manager because of some issue or other that irritated me during the most recent game. I sometimes call him names like "idiot", question his intelligence, etc. Looking around MLB, FANS do this for almost every team frequently throughout the year. It is the kind of comment that FANS make when they are upset. I suspect the intelligence of the Phillies manager is questioned by FANS after their rare losses and you can bet if they do not win the WS some of the FANS will be calling for the Manager to be fired. 99% of the FANS who are frustrated with Wash post the specific reasons for their frustration that others may not agree with but to these fans they are legit. This does not make the posters prejudiced or racists. It only means they are paying attention and care enough to vent their frustrations. Other FANS are willing to overlook any poor play or manager decisions by saying oh well that is what happens in a 162 game season. I do not share this form of fan support but I never post negative comments about the posters because I do not see things the way they do. Wash prolly never looks at this BBTIA forum (even though it is first class) so nothing we post has any bearing on how he manages and clearly it does not hurt his feelings since he is too busy running a baseball team to pay any attention to this. The last I looked Wash has the full unwavering support of NR, JD, the players and most of the fans. That does not maake the fans who do not support him bad people who are prejudice or racists. It just means we see things differently. So what, if you do not care for a post I make ignore it, refute it, call me an idiot BUT do not jump to the assumption I am prejudiced or a racist against this Manager just because I do not care for the way he manages.
There's a lot wrong with what you said, but I'll start with the claim that all good fans hate their managers when the team loses. I grew up in the NY/NJ area, and never saw this phenomenon. Fans called George Steinbrenner an idiot when he traded away a good player, but never Billy Martin or the others. I came to Texas in 1986, and have been paying close, close attention to the Rangers ever since. Hell, I even worked at the Ballpark in the early 90's while I was in grad school - I sold tickets on the phone for a few bucks an hour just so I could be in the ballpark most nights to catch the last few innings of the game for free, standing in the back. Since I've been around these parts, I've seen Bobby Valentine, Toby Harrah, Kevin Kennedy, Johnny Oates, Jerry Narron, Buck Showalter, and then Ron Washington manage this team. I have never, ever heard fans repeatedly call any of those other guys an "idiot" or question their intelligence or make fun of them personally. Gordo on the Ticket made fun of the way Johnny Oates talked - that's the best I can come up with. So your assertion from my perspective is simply not true. And furthermore, most of those other guys didn't win. Johnny Oates won, of course - at least a little. But it's striking that Washington took this team to the World Series, I guess in spite of him being mentally deficient or handicapped, right?
I will also repeat what I said that "prejudiced" and "racist" are not synonyms. If you think they are, then that's really a question of your own poor intelligence. But you know what - I will go ahead and say it. Why say things or act in a way that could be interpreted as racist? Why do it? Why not be precise with language and instead of saying "Warsh" is a "retard" or an "idiot," why not simply say that you disagree with his managerial moves. That's something we can discuss and disagree or agree on. When you try to belittle him personally or speak to his mental competency, since fans who do this are mostly white and he's black - isn't it just begging the question, "Why?" So when you and others do this, you are the ones opening the door for people to question your motives. What's fair is fair.
The other thing is that it's pretty lousy to say "oh well Ron Washington doesn't care so I can keep calling him a moron and an idiot." Again, that says a lot about you and your ethos more than anything else.
Just a clarification on the Warsh thing that I have used and many others. That to me is not a "black" thing but a country/poor/south thing. Just like my grandmother saying "I need to warsh dem clothes" or "I got an idear" it more of a dialect that a slam and Washington certainly has a strong southern dialect used by whites and black alike.
@TexasRichieAAA your point is fine I think WWJD's point is fine, my point is that it makes my skin crawl to log on to a site and read reactionary poorly thought out attack's on the only in my book winning manager the club has ever had. Yes Oates did some good but never could get a win in a playoff series and as a matter of fact Oates teams were embarrassingly inept in the playoffs. So when "fans" that are on a intellectually stimulating site like BBTIA act like the masses and ignore all the good information floated out there by Joey, Pras and others I guess it annoys me and some others on the site. In one short season I guess I have grown from an reactionary knee jerk the sky is falling uninformed fan to one more focused on the larger picture. When you do look at the larger picture and not just at the single game or at bat some of Washington's decisions make much more since.
With all that said is Washington the best tactician in the league? Probably not even close. But he isn't an idiot and the team doesn't win in-spite of him.
Now back to the Game of Thrones and Joey's choice of a panther to be a worg with and his disturbing choice of raw rabbit and deer as prey to be dined on after Rangers games.
The Rangers have sucked forever. They were unrevalant in baseball for so long minus the 90s. Nolan JD Wash and everyone involved in taking the Texas Freaking Rangers to the World Series should be treated like royalty by the fans and I feel as if Ron is the only one who doesn't get the same amount of respect as the others. Vladimir Guerrero is one of my all time faveorite players not on the Rangers mostly because when I think of him I think of the guy who was on the Rangers when they made it to the WS. Ron should be the guy that led them to the WS not the Rangers made it to the WS inspite of him.
@wwjdd - I see your points and they are things to seriously reflect on by me and others. However, I tire of the racist and predjudice cards being played in every situation where someone chooses to disagree with a person of color. Racism and prejudice exist and warrant being pointed at when appropriate but currently these terms are being overplayed in many situations. It is approaching the "chicken little" stage and will eventually result in widespead ignoring of legitimate situations where it is being pointed out. I am talking about overall life with my chicken little observation and not this thread or baseball or you.
I accept that your reasons for raising this concern about the tone and motivation for Wash comments are honest; I hope you can also accept that when I am sharply critical of some Wash decisions it is not for a racial reason but for the only reason I care about in sports WINNING EVERY GAME POSSIBLE. I would be just as critical of a white, or female, or Chinese or Iraqi manager of the Rangers making the frustrating moves that Wash makes when I decide to post a comment. I post because I detest blown games in situations where I and many other arm chair managers see the danger of a decision before it is made. Wash probably sees the danger too and decides to gamble because in truth it is his decision BUT complaining about the decision going poorly is my right as a fan and has nothing to do with racism.
I am very concerned about the Rangers missing the playoffs this year by one or two games. Irrational perhaps but not to me. I was just as vocal in May as I am now about wasting chances to win games and especially decisions that "blow" a game. Nothing racist about this just my concerns being vocalized.
One last point, you suggest that if I do not agree with one of your points it is "a question of your own poor intelligence" which I will submit is the same thing as saying I am an idiot or retard. The point with all three remarks is something must be wrong with me because I do not agree with what you are saying. The first remark sugar coats it but the real message it sends comes through loud and clear. I also know you were not trying to insult me personally and never took it that way BUT consider the possibility that when someone says Wash is an idiot they are really frustrated with the decision and not intending it as an insult, racial insult, or the legitimacy of Wash as the Rangers Manager to make it.
Well...at the risk of extending something already beat to death....
I like this site and a few other bulletin boards I follow BECAUSE they contain thoughtful, respectful posts and comments. In the sports world thought and respect are pretty rare finds on the interwebs.
It's easy to lash out at coaches / players when things don't go right and call them "idiots" or stupid and just make illogical, disrespectful, thoughtless comments. If I want those I'll troll the ESPN and USAToday boards.
So TexasRichie and anyone else comfortable with that sort of thing...yes, I guess as a FAN, you have a "right" to be a reactionary poster that contribute little to overall knowledge or insight into the game or being a fan of the team...but you shouldn't be surprised when others find those thoughts hard to digest. And if you use insulting, aggressive language, don't be surprised if others might be offended.
Realize that many on here are FANS of the people you're calling an "idiot" and, because they have personally invested in that coach or player...they themselves feel insulted and might respond with their own reactionary, mindless, insulting post.
@ mrman. I love this site as well but did you ever think that maybe when people say wash is a idiot thay have thought about it and it is not just a reactionary comment in the heat of the moment. I understand people may be fans of wash and will get a bit pissed when you call him a idiot but theres no reason to call him predjudiced or imply he is racist for his opinion. Maybe some commenters need to quit thinking they know everything there is to know about baseball and questioning others intelligence. Remember the idiot comments were not directed toward any commenters but the racist comments were directed at other commenters maybe those were the reactionary comments?
@mrman - If I offended you or anyone else who is a fan of Wash by calling him an idiot or by questioning his manager moves I sincerely apologize. I am not that sensitive but I can see where some people might be. Maybe you could better stick up for your heros by simply showing the error of the logic about the complaint. Try this as an illustration of my point....
TexasRichie - Wash displayed questionable analysis of the game situation when he tried the suicide sqeeze twice with Gentry a copule games ago. He was also a little less than kind to poor Gentry by leaving him out to dry and not accepting any responsibility for making the ill fated manager move.
MrMan - Wash made that move because he wanted to shake things up and give his detractors something to talk about. No manager is perfect and on the whole Wash deserves the benfit of the doubt.
TexasRichie - Okay, now I understand, thanks for clearing that up.
I will not be posting on this subject again, you are all welcome to call me any names you want, ascribe any motives to my comments you can dream up, etc. I have broad shoulders and can take anything you waant to dishout. I respect all the posters on this site and will try hard to be more careful with my word choice so as not to offend.
When the hell is joey gonna shut this forum down. Talk about bad for business..... Bottomline: prejuidice doesnt = racism. Fighting/Arguing with ppl over any form of text is stupid and most of the time completely based on ones own assumption of another persons tone, emphasis on certain words etc. that you dont know. If it means that much exchange numbers meet up at a bar have a shiner and discuss like men. Calling Wash "Warsh" is not racist, however it is degrading and needs to stop. I used to do it, it was a known attack on his intelligence that some of the local shock jocks started in an attempt to be funny yet attack his poor decisioning. Does Wash make mistakes? Yes. Do You (thats to everyone) Hell Yes. I really am tired of reading this one on one hatred that each and everyone of you is better than. Is there still racism? Yes. On this site? as far as I know its a big time no. 1st Joey wouldnt allow it, and 2nd this might be a smaller site, but it ran by and visited by alot of stand up dudes. Its a vast collection of intelligent, humorous, and balls to the wall baseball fanatics.
I understand its hard to understand, I know its hard not lean on the racecard whenever, but racism (thank god) is pretty much almost dead. We have a black president, black leaders, entertainers. You may not like some of them, you may not see eye to eye with what an entertainer might say or do, but you just gotta say whatever. There just as many white, asian, and hispanic ppl doing the same stuff. This should be a non subject. Wash had a bad game. it happens. Just like Josh, Kins, Moreland, Colby, CJ, Holland EVERYONE.
Lastly.... Nobody got it like Uncle Wade. Wash hasnt even remotely gotten the criticism that Wade did, and rightly so. Just sayin....Now Joey if you can, please shut this MF Down.
I've said my peace - like three times - and don't have much desire to keep this going. BUT - I read this by DCAggie:
"Wash hasnt even remotely gotten the criticism that Wade did, and rightly so. Just sayin...."
and I completely disagree. If anything, the comparison only emphasizes my point. Wash gets grilled even though he wins & goes to the WS. Wade Phillips? What did he ever do in Irving? His teams were always terrible underachievers. If Wash would have disappointed like Wade did, they would have murdered Wash long ago.
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