What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Dear Chris R
If Kinsler were to hit .300 I agree then he wouldn't suck. If arther Rhodes saved 40 games he wouldnt suck. If you knew baseball then you wouldnt...........
This forum has gone to the trolls who would rather make blanket statements then make logical arguments. Joey, either talk some since into these losers or kill the forum
Like the 'blanket statement' you just made? Guess Joey is gonna have to talk some 'sense' into this LOSER. SIGH..
@Bystander I apologize for looking at other numbers beside batting average to come to a logical conclusion. I bow down to your baseball expertise and truly inspired wisdom on this forum. You're right, I am an idiot that knows nothing about baseball. I will fall on the sword and I look forward to reading your greatness on your website in the near and certain future. Please forgive me.
Seems as though Kins is quite the hot button topic.I admit that there have been times I've been frustrated with his popups and an occasional tendency to be undisciplined at the plate, but I changed my opinion after TAG delivered an in-game lecture a few weeks back.TAG's assertion was that Kinsler's OPS and relatively low strikeout totals combined with his power potential made him a unique player. Then, TAG said, you must factor in his defense which is second to no one in the American League.You can be certain any team in baseball would love to have Ian Kinsler on their team.And a final thought on the popups.@Badspellr: Popups are only an important stat when a hitter such as Kinsler refuses to use the opposite field. He averages 0.73 ground balls for every fly ball hit this season, which puts him third-worst in the AL. Why is this important? Because a popup to the shortstop or third baseman won't move runners as a ground ball or deep fly would.Admittedly, that's not much of an argument but it does address part of the topic.
now go back tio your baseball cards.
@no. 42 Thanks for the explination. Still, it seems more than slim to me. So much grumbling and it just over runners not advanced? What about all the runners advanced on the 20 some odd homers a year that are borne of those same fly balls?
I have a basic question...maybe someone has asked it in the past...but if Kinsler were in the 7-8-9 spot would there be any complaints from the 'haters'? It's not rhetorical...and I'm not asking who to replace him with...or is it mainly b/c you see his name at the top of the lineup card every night and expect something else?
@ModelTFord: That's an interesting question caused me to do some checking.Beginning in 2006 -- Kinsler's first real time in the Majors -- he batted .286 but was scatterd all over the lineup from 8th and 9th to 2nd and back down to 7th.In 2007, he batted .263 and again traveled up and down the lineup batting 6th, 7th and 2nd.In 2008, he had his best year to date in average at .319 and was almost exclusively the leadoff guy.In 2009, he hit .253 and hit 5th, 6th and leadoff.In 2010, he hit .286, was hurt and spent time lower in the order due to Wash's belief in Bourbon as his leadoff guy.The first thing this small sample should show that he's following form by having a down year after a good or respectable one. Another is that it doesn't matter where he's hit in the lineup, he's essentially the same batter.So, yes, I think that he's caught in the glare of being leadoff.And I stand by my earlier assertion that he's a very valuable player that any team would gladly take.
Wow...lotta stuff. Actually read the entire thread.
I'm still learning about WAR and BABIP and such, so I can't really say how much faith and trust I put into those numbers. For instance, BABIP, as I understand it, is simply the percentage of hits out balls put into play, and the average is around .300. The theory goes, if you're substantially under .300 then you're "unlucky" but if you're substantially above then you're "lucky". I don't really buy that for an individual hitter b/c if you're constantly hitting pop-ups or lazy flyballs the numbers will reflect that whereas if you're constantly ripping line drives Al Oliver-style the numbers would reflect that as well. I DO buy into BABIP for pitchers because they're facing such a wide variety of hitters.
As far as Kinsler. I think many of us have been dazzled by a player who has:
1. batted .319 for an entire season2. hit 31 HRs in a season3. stolen 31 bases in a season4. generated an .0892 OPS for a whole season5. played gold-glove caliber defense for several seasons
If he could somehow put all that together he'd be the second coming of Robbie Alomar with more power. But the truth is, the HR numbers in 2009 were an aberration, the .319 BA in 2008 was an aberration.
Kinsler is a very good defensive player with slightly above average batting skills complemented with an ability to get on-base and excellent base-running skills.
IMO that puts him in the top 10 in the majors, maybe in the top 6. These are players I think are having better seasons than Kinsler:PedroiaCanoChase UtleyHowie KendrickRicky WeeksBrandon Phillips
At a minimum, you can make the argument for these players. But, I also agree I don't understand all the venom directed at Kinsler. There are many other second baseman we could have who would be much worse. Also, Kinsler has potential...it's not hard to envision him putting everything together and winning an MVP.
Note: "IMO that puts him in the top 10 in the majors, maybe in the top 6." I meant among 2nd basemen.
"it's not hard to envision him putting everything together and winning an MVP". Did MrMan really say that ??? WOW-I'll be waiting. Vegas just called-said they would gice 1,ooo,ooo odds on that!
I can't believe it our leadoff hitter got a hit. Oh yeah he only hits at home
Kinsler has been hitting well. Unfortunately, the times he doesn't pop-up, the ball ends up straight at a fielder. But if you only look at BA as an indicator of how good of a hitter Kinsler is, then you might as well not watch the games at all.
Tre made a comment that may well be true. I hope not. Most probably don't even know. Kinsler's Father is Jewish. He is a leader (Ian) in the Jewish community. I am a Christian man. But I will defend Ian to the end. I respect his work on, and off the field. If it is that reason you continue to hate him? Your are weak and patheitic!
he has a good eye and good plate discipline, but he is not a good hitter.
"He is a leader (Ian) in the Jewish community"care to provide some evidence? I doubt his 1 for 4 performance on last Yom Kippur qualifies him for any leadership role in the community. Most Jewish communities would not even categorize him as Jewish since his mother is not Jewish.
Kinsler is a classic streaky hitter...when he's hot, he can carry a team; when he's cold, he can be a rally killer. A current comparison may be the Braves' Dan Uggla. Kinsler's defense is above average and he shows good range. Forget stats for a minute. Just watch him play more than a few games and you'll see he is a valuable member of the Rangers' team chemistry. He's a little out of place as a leadoff hitter, but with this lineup, where else can you put him? Swap him and Andrus, but does that really make much difference? I think Wash in working Andrus toward becoming the primary leadoff hitter, but for now, we have to be happy with Kinsler.
@ Range Rover (Over Priced Crappy Vehicle)
He, like many, do there thing behind the scenes. If you knew anything about this team, behind the curtain, you'd know.
Ask Newberg, Lucas, Morgan, or Blake. They will tell you.
But, then of course, you have no idea who I am speaking of.
Swap him and Andrus would make a big difference.
GP H BB OB SO SB BA OBP Pitch/PAKinsler 111 104 68 172 54 21 .237 .347 3.95Andrus 106 118 30 148 52 31 .273 .333 3.60Uggla 116 95 38 133 102 .220 .287
In the 5 more games that Kinsler has played, he has been On-Base 24 more times. In other words, Andrus would have to find a way to get On-Base at least 5 times in 5 games to equal the the amount of times Kinsler has been On-Base.
As for the Dan Uggla comparison, you're just wrong. The only thing that you can compare Uggla with Kinsler is their crappy BA. Other than that, there's just nothing similar. Uggla has more power. Kinsler has more hits, walks, and less strikeouts in less games. A better comparison with disregard to power and speed would be Mark Teixeira, Carlos Pena, and Carlos Quentin. But if you do take power into consideration and completely disregard speed, then Carlos Santana would be the best comparison.
With one swing of the bat last night against the Mariners, Ian Kinsler displayed why he is important to the overall success of the Ranger lineup.He didn't singlehandedly win the game for them, but his ability to hit home runs did two things. In the 7th, his two-run shot brought the team back to within one run and -- perhaps most importantly -- in the 9th, it forced the Mariners' Jeff Gray to abandon his fastball and rely on offspeed stuff. That resulted in a four-pitch walk.Kinsler then scored the winning run because he was patient enough to take a walk.
@Rickey In FW
I ask for some proof that Mr. Kinsler is a <u>leader</u> in the Jewish community and you attack me personally and hand me off to the Rangers PA guy/talking head/farm system bloggers? Nice.
People who do things behind the curtain are not leaders. They may be good guys, contributors, but they are not leaders. Leaders stand in front of the curtain and get others to take action, either by example or by charisma.He may be a leader in the clubhouse (can't attest to that as I'm not there), but I am involved in the Jewish community and have never heard his name come up.
The great thing about this whole Kinsler angst is if he could just hit .260 we wouldn't be having this conversation. I think most people know that batting average is not the most important stat to look at when trying to see how well a batter performs at the plate. His stats are:
Avg .237 HR 17 RBI 48 Runs 78 SB 21
Unfortunately every single at bat of every single game we are shown avg: 237. Its a bit like advertising.. You see all those sonic commercials during the game and then the next day for lunch you drive by one you have a sudden urge for a milkshake with your robot buddy with the bee hive for a heart : )
We think anything below .250 avg = a bad player. Its time boys! time to think outside the box. Lets give Kinsler a break at least until he pops up with 2 outs and a man in scorring position in the playoffs. Then we can roast him.
I wasn't comparing Kinsler and Uggla on thier overall stats, only the fact that they are both extremely streaky hitters. When they are on a hot streak, there is little a pitcher can do to stop them. When they are cold, it seems like every at bat results in a poorly hit ball or strikeout, along with the body language that shows frustration. They both lack the consistency you see in hitters such as Young, Pujols, A. Gonzalez, etc. There is more similarity than just crappy BA with Kinsler and Uggla. Check out their career averages over 162 games.
AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BB SO BA OBP SLG OPSKinsler 626 114 172 37 3 24 81 28 73 89 .274 .354 .460 .814Uggla 611 102 157 34 2 32 95 4 73 157 .258 .341 .479 .821
A lot closer than you might realize. For whatever reason, Kinsler is having a down year in BA, but the rest of his stats are in line with his career averages. @David is right, if Kinsler was batting around .260, it's unlikely this conversation would be going on.
Wow I just read this whole thing and not I need 4 advil and a nap.
Kinsler's problem with some fans is all about #bodylanguage and not hustling on some infield ground balls. But if you are going to apply the famous Bob Sturm "Eyeball Test" you have to see that guy is freaking awesome and consistent in the outfield. That he does get on base allot despite what appears to be a flawed swing.As far as WAR and UZR and the such why would anyone want to pay attention to stats widely used by GM's across the league to analyze players when you can go by your gut feel?
Notify me of follow-up comments via email.