After last nights game I believe a strong push should be made to acquire a CF instead of a starting pitcher. Yes Holland was not as good last night as he was in his previous few starts but the end result was not entirely his fault. Prior to the start of the 6th inning he was pitching a solid game and even during the sixth he wasn't terrible. Kendrick led off with a double, big deal. Hunter led off the third with a home run that should have been far more significant. The play that cost Holland and the Rangers the most was on the very next pitch that Trumbo hit to Chavez. Giving up back to back hits happens and its unfortunate it cut the lead to four runs but Chavez's throw cost the Rangers the inning by allowing Trumbo to advance to second. On the next play Wilson grounds out to Kinsler for one and Trumbo advances to third. If Chavez is able to hold Trumbo to a single on the previous play odds are high that Wilson hits into a double play there and Holland has only given up one run and now has two outs and none on with Trout coming up. If the inning continues to play out the way it did and Trout reaches on the infield hit and Aybar doubles him home so be it. Holland gets pulled for Hunter who induces an inning ending grounder from Torii Hunter and the Rangers still lead 8-5. Instead the double play never happens and it takes 5 additional batter to record the last out. Pinning this loss on Holland, like many will, is short sighted and doesn't take into account what actually happened during the game.

This is why we need an established everyday CF instead of the carousel that is Chavez/Gentry. sure they have been playing well but if you expect this team to go anywhere in the playoffs they can't have a premium position manned by fourth and fifth outfielders. I would suggest going after Michael Bourn. He is a premium defender and would supply additional pressure offensively with his speed and baserunning prowess and wouldn't cost as much in return as a TORP.

As for the starting pitching there is no one actually available that would improve this staff without draining the farm. And while I believe JD has some magical abilities the improtant thing to remember about magic is the audience has to be willing. Colorado is far from willing.

From a statistical standpoint Holland is our fourth best pitcher this year in terms of WAR and FIP. However if you took his statistics and placed him in some of the other contending rotations his place in the rotation goes up. In the AL both his FIP and WAR would place him third in Boston's rotation. His FIP in New York would stay fourth however in both Cleveland and Detroit he would be third. His WAR in New York would be third but in Cleveland and Detroit it jumps up to second. Holland doesn't simply project to be a mid level or better starter, He's already there!

By the way when you compare their statistics this year Jimenez isn't actually worth what Colorado is asking if it means giving up any of our current rotation pieces and he wouldn't be worthy of starting ahead of Ogando. Essentially it would be trading a pitcher who is in the midst of establishing himself as a mid to top of the rotation starter with what is currently another mid to top of the rotaion starter only we would have the dubious distinction of losing several premium level prospects in the process.

I gotta disagree. Chavez has more than proved his worth defensively and offensively this year. now if they insist on platooning CF and we can pick up Bourn on the cheap i'm ok with that. But as far as making a costly move at CF (this includes Beltran) i'm extremely against it. Especially with Martin still on a tear after his promotion to AAA. He's close to the bigs, he might even get called prior to the September roster adjustments.

The case is more indicative that EVERY Pitcher besides CJ (even Ogando, keep in mind he's only had one game since the break, and before that was starting to be hit or miss) is just way to inconsistent to ignore. We need one reliable starting pitcher. He doesnt have to be a TORP in my eyes, but another CJ, a guy that everytime he's slated to pitch you know youre going to be in it the entire game with a chance to win. Right now, Colby, Ogando, Holland, and Harrison can't provide that. but hey maybe we can package a bourn Bret meyers type deal. Meyers while not optimum fits that CJ type roll in that everytime he goes out to pitch with our offense we'd have a chance to win.

just my opinion.

1) there's no doubt Endy made a very poor decision on that throw.

2) you can't blame Endy for that inningfielders aren't perfect. Holland and Hunter couldn't get anyone out. As you said, after the Mike Trout IF hit and Aybar double, Hunter induces a ground out. He then allows the next FOUR guys to reach. Place some damn blame on the pitching, Dude. Blaming a 6-run inning on 1 instance of a guy missing a cutoff man is nonsense.

Roll with Chavez, promote Martin later this summer, UNLESS Beltran comes really cheap. Then you move hime to Left and Hamilton to Center. Bourne will cost an arm and a leg in prospects to fill a hole that Martin is supposed to fill for the next decade.

Actually, just the a game or two before, Endy was being praised for his fundamentals. Until I see a big pattern of bad plays rather than the isolated brain fart, I wouldn't sweat it much. I have to say, I didn't read through the entire OP. I just assumed Joe wrote it.

I'm not excluding the pitchers from any of the blame but the fact remains that Holland made the pitch he needed two on the very next batter and the result should have been two outs and not one. Then he makes another pitch to Trout that results in an out better than 99% of the time and should be out of the inning except that the kid is one of the fastest guys in the league.

Say all you want about pitchers not making pitches after a defensive lapse but the offense still has to capitalize. Unfortunately the Angels did. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Holland had a great game or that Hunter wasn't attrocious but it really hacks me off when I see a play like the one that Endy was a part of last night. Kendrick's run meant absolutely nothing! Chavez would have been better off simply walking the ball back into the infield. So yes I believe a significant amount of blame should be leveled at the feet of our CF situation.

Bourn won't cost an arm and a leg. His contracts up at the end of the season making him a rental thus reducing what Houston can demand. I'm also not sold on Martin for this year. I don't doubt that he is the future in CF but I highly doubt the level of impact he could provide this year will be very great.

Tell me what corner you got your crack from 'arp' because I need some of that evidently.

Great - another thread that will cause Joey to have thoughts about shutting down the Forum section of the site...

dont know if any of the other comments have mentioned this, but once again just because Wilson hit it right to Kinsler for what would have been a DP had Endy just hit the leadoff man, you can't assume that that what have happened had Endy hit the leadoff man. At that point in time, we still had a 8-4 lead and shoudl have still easily won. Endy made a minor mistake, he certainly shouldnt take the lion's share of the blame for the blown game, HOLLAND SHOULD!

Trey-

If your in North America it's not very close unfortunately and flights to England aren't exactly cheap right now but if your up for a trip.....

1st ammendment yo. freedom of speech. he cant shut us down! oh wait.... he owns this..... we're screwed :(

regardless i really dont see him shutting the forum section down. All sites like this need a section like that. if he were to shut it down he'd risk ppl leaviing for LSB (god thats a dreadful site though) or other type sites where they can post their opinion. This is our passion and sometimes ppl want to throw something out there. it just an idea, just an opinion, and arp has every right to express how he feels about the situation. Words are Words. no harm no foul. until one of us starts running the rangers, like we all wish we were lol.

Look guys, bottom line.... we know we need a SP. CHW is back in it. Rockies were apparently just F***in with everyone. Berdard, i have zero interest in. but theres ALWAYS that one trade that kinda comes out of nowhere (think Haren to the angels last year). So seriously.... who can we get as a serviceable SP? yall know my opinion on it, Cincy is in 4th place and falling... i still say try to pry Cueto from them, but its a long shot. I'm a go big or go home guy so i'd prefer a dude thats at least a 2. Garza isnt worth it. its really Grim. you could say maybe Kershaw or Lilly at the least, but with the MLB owning the dodgers right now we dont know the amount of flexibility. Granted they owned us and we got Lee..... but also Kuroda does not interest me. Guthrie, they always say has good stuff, but the dude just cant win. bottom line. Plain and simple.... it reallly looks grim. btw i do agree scheppers needs to be moved up asap.

I would suggest one name that i dont think many have considered. He's the model of consistency on a bad team. But he's actually having a decent year... I wonder if we could somehow make a package deal with the nationals for Livian Hernandez and Tyler Clippard. Clippard is a stud RP. And i know that Livian doesnt have the stuff of a Holland or Harrison, but instead of this up and down bipolar BS we have to deal with, we'd know everytime he's out there. we have a shot to win the game. Plus it might be a cheap deal to put together. If it doesnt work out, we can still move Holland or Harrison (whoever is moved down) back up. I just dont know Livian's contract situation.... that might be a deal killer....

Dc---Agreed about the SP. When this team is hot and clicking on all cylinders, they will be fine in the playoffs. But when they come back down to earth like they did last night (although the hitting was fine), the pitching is mediocre and besides C.J., I have no trust in anyone in a playoff series. Sorry, that's just how I Feel. Look at how the Yankees have done to Ogando and Holland this year.

So let me get this straight. You based this forum on ONE PLAY out of the season? What about all the other plays that have been made? I couldn't even finish reading the post. The shortsightedness wore me out.

If you couldn't finish reading the topic why bother responding? If you want to disagree then fine but at least do so on the premise of having read the entire post.

There have been many posts all over this and other sights calling for one change or another and in the grand scheme of things non of us who are outside the sphere of influence will have any effect on what happens.So be it, but If you had read the entire forum topic perhaps you would have determined that it wasn't based simply on that individual play but also on my belief that CF is a greater weakness on this squad than the starting rotation. The play last night was merely a visible example of why I believe what I do about the needs of this club.