What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Over the past few months there really hasnt been much to say about CJ Wilson. Every game he pitches we have a chance to win. Its a great thing to have. However the general vibe in the chats, forums, Joey's posts, and replies within his posts, theres about a 50/50 split maybe less, belief that he will return to the Rangers next year.
So that being said, if JD and Nolan don't think he will re sign or if they are not willing to offer the type of money to compete with the top contracts he offers shouldn't we package him in a deal for another decent pitcher, or just any trade, and maybe add some more youth towards the future of this team.
Why should we let him leave scott free with us getting nothing but the middle finger? if we really dont think we can retain him if I was JD i would think it'd be in the best intersest of the team to ship him somewhere else and atleast get something for him.... am I crazy? Dont get me wrong, i dont want to see him leave, and i'm actually one of the few that believes he'll stay.... but if the chances really do appear that slim wouldnt you rather get something to add to this team instead of him just walking away for nothing. i dunno... just something to think about....
Trade away our #1 starter while we're sitting in first place and attempting to make another deep playoff run? Not sure I understand that one. Teams in our position are trading for "rental players" in the final year of their contracts, like CJ, not selling them.
Besides, unless we're absolutely certain that he won't be in Ranger red next year, shouldn't we at least try to resign him? How many left handed TORP will we have a shot at this offseason?
Even if there was no chance of resigning him, and I think there is, I'd be in favor of getting a playoff run out of him.
DC - thats your worst idea yet and it's bad for the Aggie rep. By that thinking, we should have traded Lee away after we got him if we weren't sure we could resign him. Besides, he wouldn't leave scott free, we will get picks. You don't always get to make playoff runs with a roster of guys with multi years of team control. We are talking about how this team needs another front line starter, so why would we trade away the one we have? Aggie to Aggie....COMEON MAN!!!!!
Oooo, a way too cold a.m. shower on that one DC.That really has tones of Big Business & a heartless money move.
We're signing CJ, no need to worry about this. JD and Nolan dont want to have to answer the "trade for SP during the season fiddle" every year.
Trading CJ now would seriously send the wrong message to the rest of the team. They are clicking right now - I don't think you want to mess with that. If he signs or not, doesn't matter right now as we need him and his post season experience for this year.
I'll make the argument that CJ is exactly the type of player the Rangers should be willing to overpay for in free agency. He's sturdy, consistent and he takes spectacular care of himself physically. Since the risk of significant performance drop-off and injury are lower than average, you can assume he could always be moved if the Rangers needed to rid themselves of his contract and pick up prospects. Dependable, healthy left-handed No. 2 starters don't grow on trees.
jd21, I think he's working on getting pretty close to a #1. I would call him a 1B starter because he would be a #1 on a heck of a lot of teams right now.
DC your the reason I sometimes dont tell people i am an Aggie just so i can avoid the silly one-liners that come along with that provided info...
I don't understand this entire hypothetical. We are actively looking for guys just like C.J. for the balance of the season. Why would we trade him? He will likely sign here, especially if he sees the continued commitment to winning, which is what he said his decision would be predicated upon. Even if he goes elsewhere, we get compensatory draft picks. So enjoy it while you got it, and hopefully for years to come. But quit over-thinking things.
DC also came up with the idea that we should trade for Brain McCann because you know, he's ever so available...
Point Taken. And dont get me wrong, i completely agree, and I would prefer CJ remain on the staff. Again, I said that i believe he will be re signed. However, the only way I can explain it, is I think my mind was more in the basketball trade deadline mentality than baseball, and as Wash would say, thats not the way baseball go. Nuggets were a playoff team, but they knew Carmelo wouldnt resign, they traded him, and now theyre listed as one of the young upcoming teams similar to OKC that could make a deep playoff run next year. Look at what happened to Cleveland. They believed Lebron would resign and he didnt. they were left with nothing, but the worst record in basketball this season. Then again its a different game.
However @ adam comparing this to lee is a separate issue WE made the trade FOR lee knowing that could happen, lee wasnt a player on our squad already so poor comparison. besides seattle not being close to a playoff run last year when they dealt lee vs us dealing CJ in the middle of a playoff race, your example only further validates my idea. Smoak is excelling and beaven has looked pretty good thus far. Seattle for a while was only a game behind us for a while. aggie to aggie, you could do better.
@ kristen, you still dont get baseball trades. Anyone and everyone is available (for the most part) it may take more or less to get someone but if we really wanted McCann an offer can be made that they cant refuse. Just because someone is not openly on the market via the media doesnt mean someone's not available. Hell Hambone isnt on the trading Block, but if Seattle called and said they'd send us Felix for Hambone and a few prospects you can bet we're shipping him off to Seattle.
Thanks though for setting me straight. My only justification was the idea of trading CJ to someone in the NL who believes they can contend for areas of need in the future, more pitching, a catcher, and a possible Torp to replace him. Or to a team looking to cut payroll. For all of those that want Clayton Kershaw CJ along with prospects is a way to get this done. just something to think about. Look, like the rest of yall I only have the best interest of the team at heart, and too me, compensatory picks dont replace CJ. but a cache of young upcoming prospects, and a possible replacement Torp thats close but not quite as good doesnt mean we still cant make the playoffs. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made, and I question sometimes if yall are missing the big picture and too focused on a win now attitude. Granted thats not a bad thing either. I just want to see the rangers in the playoffs year after year. I dont want this to be the last run, until our up and coming prospects are ready. However if CJ were to leave this offseason we're handing the team over to Colby, Ogando, and the rest hoping to make the playoffs.... what's the difference in passing the torch now and obtaining some key pieces for the future, and see how this team handles a playoff run, than the same thing happening next year? if theyre not good enough now, next year's gonna be hell for everyone sitting in 3rd to 4th place the entire season while we wait for the farm to get ready. Or theyre gonna gel, and play fine make another playoff run, and we get something other than compensatory picks out of it. Then again my head might be stuck in that basketball trade deadline mentality and not baseball.
Again, dont get me wrong. I want CJ in a rangers uniform for many years to come, and this offseason I think they should overpay if necessary to keep him.
And don't take the constructive criticism the wrong way. I think if the Rangers were in the cellar, everyone would fully agree. But no one has ever seen a contender trade their #1. That's all. You savvy. It was a hypothetical that got a lot of attention. I'll give you that. Stay thick skinned and keep it coming, bro.
i'm an aggie. gotta stay thick skinned lol. i just thought it was an interesting idea as a trade chip especially for a Torp that many havent thought about. if ppl really want kershaw... they need to consider it. the cubs are gonna be cutting payroll like you wont belive with one thing in mind, getting Pujols. and dont forget they have new more conservative owners. the cubs arent going to be the big spenders of old.
However if you ask me would i rather have CJ or Kershaw.... right now CJ, for the future Kershaw. I just also see the theory that ppl believe he might be a Yankee next year, we could deal him there and raid the farm. its a risky move, but if he's gonna end up there anyway, i'd rather have the satisfaction of knowing i took something from them in the process.
But the majority disagree, so i'm probably wrong on this one. wouldnt be the first time i'm wrong on something definately wont be the last. I think ppl just need to be a little more open minded to possibilities around them they havent considered (myself included) especially during trade deadline. Everyone thinks they have the solution, everyone thinks they know the perfect player trade, fit.... unfortunately we're not all Rangers GMs, and we actually have no clue whats gonna happen; only til about a day or two before it does. or like last year.... when we got the nice surprise of Lee about 30 min AFTER it happened. those are always the best.
Well, and not to rain on your parade twice in one day, but? I don't think C.J. would garner as much in return as you think. He is only in his 2nd year as a starter. He has won 15 games once. On his way to surpassing that this year, but with an offensive power-house. Being a Lefty doesn't hurt. BUT, he would not allow you to "raid their farm system". Just my thoughts.
"@ kristen, you still dont get baseball trades. Anyone and everyone is available (for the most part) it may take more or less to get someone but if we really wanted McCann an offer can be made that they cant refuse. Just because someone is not openly on the market via the media doesnt mean someone's not available. Hell Hambone isnt on the trading Block, but if Seattle called and said they'd send us Felix for Hambone and a few prospects you can bet we're shipping him off to Seattle."
DC, come on already. You're talking theoretically and not realistically. SEA is not going to trade Feliz for Hamilton plus some prospects. Your proposals and arguments are amazingly simplistic, almost childlike. It's not whether theoretically a trade can happen, it's whether it actually could in real life, and you have to be specific about the circumstances in which it would happen. It's like someone saying yeah, let's trade Feliz and Wilson and Andrus and Cruz and Hammy for Teixeira, A. Rod, Montero, etc. Who cares if in theory it could happen? Talking about fantasy trades is ok for nerds who play fantasy league, but what's the point in real life? What matters is whether it could realistically happen between both teams in their present circumstances. That's the issue. It's like me saying if I had a million dollars I'd buy 25 Corvettes. That's great, but it's never going to happen. It's just pointless fantasy so why waste time talking about it?
I'm not going to bother responding to your posts anymore. Just amazed at how simplistic you view things. You go from A to C without really thinking about B or the process of how to get to C. It's like a 3-year old being asked why they want some something and they say, "Because."
If CJ Wilson does leave, then not only will we get compensatory draft picks(plural because he's Type A) but also room for a real TORP like Yu Darvish or space for Feliz.
NBA free agency is different compared to MLB free agency which is what allowed Carmelo Anthony to handcuff the Nuggets to get them to trade him specifically to the Knicks. The Cavaliers didn't do that with Lebron James which caused them to be screwed over last season. They don't have any good compensation for STAR players leaving.
While the Rangers wouldn't be screwed over next season like the Nuggets seeing as how they have a lot of backups, they won't gain much right away or at all from the 2 extra picks of the next mlb draft.
As for trading CJ Wilson for Clayton Kershaw, that's ridiculous. CJ Wilson is a free agent this next season, if the Dodgers wanted a really good player, then it would at least be a player that they could control for a few years at a cheap cost since they are...you know....broke
The Carmelo Anthony anology if not a good one because half the teams in the NBA make the playoffs and the better teams win in the NBA playoffs. In baseball a much smaller % of teams make the playoffs and pitchers like CJ can make a big difference in post-season baseball. Another issue with your anology is that NBA players tend to have more value on an individual basis and in the previous NBA landscape you could lose your best player without receiving anything back unlike baseball where you get draft picks..
good point aggie about the NBA structure vs MLB, hence why I stated i believe i was in the wrong mindset.
@ kristen, its obvious you still dont get how the trade deadline in major league sports works in general, but since i'm not a child i'm not going to sit here and argue about it. we can just agree to disagree. But when youre dealing w billionaires with sports teams sometimes you are dealing with 3 year olds that due things just because. Why else would Ubaldo be on the trade market, btw buster olney did confirm today that the rockies are willing to trade him. the Rockies are 8.5 games back (not an impossibility to come back from Hurdle's rockies have made even greater comebacks. However, what does that say? Either they think Ubaldo is not worth his team friendly contract as he is in other players and prospects, and then what does it say about the future? does that seem reasonable? no. will it happen, most likely. so you act like everything done has to be reasonable and realstic... youre dead wrong. owners do what they want with their teams however they want. Why to you think the Dodgers are in the mess theyre in? Atlanta will not win the east, and while leading the wild card, theyre willing to get rid of one of thier best pitchers in Jurrjens; and theyre willing to part with lowe as well. THEY ARE SELLING. so how does that make any sense?
one simple answer that you have failed to look beyond. to be a truly successful team you have to be willing to leverage the present for the future. So it is not beyond REASON to attempt to make a trade for anyone you think will make your team better. That is a GMs job. I'm sorry if i struck a nerve w McCann.
I was partly being sarcastic when i brought it up the first time. but again my main point was none of Atlanta's pitchers are worth our prospects without getting another player thrown in.... if I was JD i would make sure that McCann was a player i'd attempt to make a deal for. again.... GMs job is to do that.
I get what youre saying and i semi agree..... however it seems contradictory that CJ is a pitcher that would not be deemed worth of top prospects in a trade, however this offseason is supposed to command a 70+ million dollar contract.... doesnt quite add up; know what i mean? however i guess that could be the way baseball go.
This Post was as dumb as a box of rox. Do U just like to see your name in print dcA?I agree with Kristen. Some three year old BS. May be dcA and Ricky can skip throughthe flowers, find a picnic spot and talk there own views of baseball. U deservreeach other. Wonder who talks damost.
Marlins are talking about trading Nolasco, who the Rangers have coveted for some time. Just FYI. Big surprise, the Yankees are interested too.
Doesn't make sense, since FLA just signed him to a nice contract,but Colby has been moved back, to allow LH Wilson to pitch in LAA.Does that show a small lack of confidence? Nolasco would fit here.I hope JD's not bright eyed full, with our Rosters Progression. We stillneed a TORP.
HubZ - Frankly? I do not care for Nolasco. He does not fit the HubZ criteria of filling a #1 or #2 slot, thus... Huh? Lewis was po'd the other night with Wash. He should've let him finish the game, i.e. one out. Don't tell me you're worried about his well being. Either let him finish what he started, or let Feliz take the 9th. Sorry message to send to a guy who poured his heart and soul on the mound.
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