What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
What do you guys think about having the CF platoon leadoff?
And dropping Kinsler to 2nd and Andrus to 9th?
Every time I look at Elvis' stats I wonder why he is hitting so high in the order. I know he's fast but he has only a .320 OBP. I know he's got upside but he barely manages a more than .600 OPS consistently and we have seen him very consistently at the top of the order. Is he even hitting that well with RISP as he did last year?
I think Kinsler will break out of his slump and he already has a .740 OPS even while he is hitting .240, and he has a .350 OBP and scores tons of runs. But I think the pressure of leading off is getting to him and he might perform better with Hamilton protecting him.
Can anyone tell me where Andrus' OPS ranks among AL shortstops? He's a good and consistent hitter and it would be good to have him in the 9 hole to start a string of fast guys in Andrus, Chavez/Gentry, Kinsler, and Hamilton. The ideal would be to have the speedy Cruz hit cleanup but I don't think he is ready for that as Wash says.
Chavez yes, Gentry no... but i'd adjust a little
when Gentry's playing
There's no way you bat Moreland in the 3 hole. He will get eaten up there. That spot is for your best hitter.
If I was Wash, I'd roll out a daily lineup like this:
SS-Elvis Andrus (Pressures pitchers when he gets on-base, I love his aggressiveness)
1B-Mitch Moreland (Consistent and makes the top of our lineup righty, leftie, righty, lefty...)
2B-Ian Kinsler (I personally think he's better suited in the 3-hole, call me crazy)
LF-Josh Hamilton (Kinsler will get protection as pitchers will not want to face Josh in the 4-hole)
3B-Adrian Beltre (Keeps driving-in runs)
RF-Nelson Cruz (Pack that "boom-stick" and make it stay for a while)
DH-Michael Young (A true professional hitter, would serve an important role as our 7th hitter)
C-Mike Napoli/Yorvit Torrealba (I love Napoli....power hitting catchers appeal to me)
CF-Endy Chavez/Craig Gentry (Good speed at the bottom of the lineup)
@ Jacob, added protection of hambone behind him, plus i would say he's one of our better hitters, atleast against RHP. i'd like to see one or two games like that. i bet you'd be surprised. Pitchers would actually have to face every batter with my lineups. no pitching around, straight up balls to the wall baseball. plus i'd like to see josh in the cleanup spot. Who's protected by Beltre, who's protected by Cruz, who's protected by Kins..... its long chain of pain for the opposing pitching staff my friend. and hambone hasnt been exactly lights out in the 3 spot either... but what ya gonna do...?
I don't think either Gentry or Chavez will succeed at leadoff and I think Gentry will fail quite badly. Honestly, I'd love to see Borbon back in the leadoff. It seemed to me that he was really starting to improve - he was getting on base - he just needs to improve as a base runner, but he definitely has the speed.
By the way, one thing that Elvis is good at is advancing runners. Really, I'd like to Elvis bat after Julio, that might mean Julio bats last in the lineup and Elvis is first but the Rangers always seem to score more runs that way.
What's wrong with Kinsler leading off... besides his BA?Do you really believe he'll hit .230, at the end of 2011?Check the real offensive numbers. He's at the top of manyoffensive stats, for leadoff's. Has a great eye and OBP.A terror on the pads. Leadoff= get on base + score. Muchbetter than what shows, he'd be an MVP candidate.Certainly for the Rangers.
I'm surprised at this post, because the one thing that is certain in this lineup is that Elvis is the perfect No. 2 hitter. He bunts well, hits to right well, makes contact, is selfless, has enough speed not to get doubled up much, and if the leadoff hitter fails and Elvis gets on, he can steal you a base. And he's also fearless with two strikes, which allows him to give the leadoff hitter time to run. Most made-to-order No. 2 hitter I've seen for years.
Do these things outweigh his consistently meager production?
If anyone has the time, energy and resources it would be interesting to see a comparison of Andrus' production with other number two hitters in the league.
Does anyone else feel like Elvis is overrated offensively? I like the kid, think he does a lot of good for our lineup, and I have nothing against him at all, but he has never struck me as a top of the order hitter. Maybe I am undervaluing his base running, bunting, and other skills and looking to much at his overall production. He did have a better OBP the last couple years than he does this year, if he could get it up to .340 or .350 that might help.
Perfectly put jd21 and I totally agree. Anyone remember when Elvis came up howTOTALLY happy the Org would be, if he hit .230+.His defensive skills were the focus, which is the way one should view a good-great short stop.
Maybe video games have misaligned the reality?Anyone want to buy a PS ONE, Circa 2000?Yep. I loved that stuff, but gave it up, because myviews were becoming jaded & very unrealistic.I love Elvis for the perfect imperfections he is & has.
The lineup should be:
Kinsler and Young have a .350 OBP, compared to .320 for Andrus. They are 1st and 3rd on the team in doubles. Having them bat 1 and 2 would virtually guarantee Hamilton multiple ABs with RISP in each game. And after the first time through the order, Gentry/Chavez/Andrus would likely be on base for Kinsler/Young/Hamilton to drive home. Seems like a no brainer. What am I missing?
I would also put Napoli ahead of Moreland when a lefty is pitching.
(Gentry/Chavez aren't ready to lead off. They're doing well, but the sample size is very small and lead off is a high-pressure role.)
After further thought you guys are probably right that the pressure of leading off wouldn't sit well with Chavez/Gentry. Furthermore, I think its totally unrealistic as Wash would never do that.
There is really no one else to lead off but Kinsler because Andrus is definitely not a candidate with his .320 OBP.
I like the idea, if we can't put Kinsler in the two hole, of putting Young back there. But he hits into a lot of double plays and I don't think Wash rests him enough. He would give you better production than Andrus in that spot and better protection for Kinsler as well. But you wouldn't get the back to back Kinsler Andrus speed combination.
That is why I like RFan's suggestion of putting Chavez/Gentry in the 8 hole with Andrus batting 9th. Then you get speed, speed, speed.
Bottom line is I'm more convinced that Andrus needs to be moved to the bottom of the order than I am that Kinsler needs to be moved off of leadoff.
I do worry about Young's double plays in the 2 hole though.
I don't know, the more I think about it the more I think maybe Wash has it right considering Kinsler is really the only leadoff candidate and Young probably hits into too many double plays to be in the 2 hole. Further, I do not think Moreland is ready for the 2 hole either. Maybe Wash has it right.
1) Elvis (not ideal, but leadoff is not something we really have at the moment)2) Moreland3) Hamilton4) Beltre5) Cruz6) Kinsler7) Young8) Torrealba9) Chavez
When Napoli is behind the dish I hit him 6th, Kinsler 7th, Young 8th.
As far as qualifying AL shortstop OPS ranks:
01 CLE Cabrera02 DET Peralta 03 TOR Escobar04 CHW Ramirez05 LAA Aybar06 MIN Casilla07 TEX Andrus08 NYY Jeter09 OAK Pennington10 SEA Ryan11 KC Escobar
I don't see Moreland in the 2 hole. Even if you assume he could handle the pressure of hitting ahead of Hamilton (a big assumption), he's hitting .213 against lefties and nearly all of those hits are singles. Young is a veteran who can handle the pressure and is reliable against righties and lefties.
I do agree that Elvis shouldn't be hitting number 2. The decision to keep him there is becoming harder to understand everyday.
Not bad but I think Kinsler is better at lead off than Andrus, and as much as I would like him to be I do not think Moreland is ready to hit second.
That's why I'm leaning back towards approving of Wash's current order because Kinsler is a better leadoff than Andrus, and there is no one to hit second except Young who hits into to many double plays. That leaves you with just about what Wash throws out there already.
If you could get a real leadoff hitter (maybe Martin next year) then you could put Kinsler in the 2 hole and move Andrus to hit 9th.
This would be bad ass:
Martin (speed) (L)Kinsler (speed) (R)Hamilton (speed) (L) (DH/LF)Cruz (speed) (R) (if he is ready otherwise you put Beltre here)Moreland (L) (if he's ready for the middle of the order otherwise Beltre or Cruz here)Beltre (R)Young (or Davis at DH/LF if Young choses to leave, (L)Torrealba/NapoliAndrus (speed) (R)
What about the fact that Young's double play tendency is a rally killer and that he doesn't have Andrus speed or base running abilities?
It might be more of a toss up than it seems like if you just look at the OPS. I definitely think Kinsler would be a better number 2 than Andrus but there really is no one else to hit leadoff and you can't be in two places at the same time. I would like to see Young moved to the 2 hole and Andrus to the 9 hole but I am not so sure anymore. When considering different factors it seems more like a tossup to me now. Also as it is you get Chavez/Gentry, Kinsler, Andrus, Hamilton for four speeds in a row. If you put Young in the two hole you get slow Young breaking that up and you only get Chavez/Gentry, Andrus, Kinsler, then slow, fast, slow, fast.
What about how Andrus measures up against other number 2 hitters?
I think Moreland is actually the perfect #2 hitter.
Things I look for in a #2 hitter:
Solid OBP. Check
Gap Power to double home the leadoff man. Check
Bat control for hit-and-run. Check.
Speed. Not so much on this one with Mitch.
Hits well with 2 strikes. Check.
Patient at plate/runs up pitch counts. Check.
#2 is Mitch's eventual spot, when he develops out of his low vsL split.
On another front: What about forgetting about speed altogether and going for OBP at leadoff?
Not a bad alternative.
Interesting reshuffle there.
I agree that Moreland could be a number 2 eventually whether that is next year or the year after that but I don't think he is ready for it just like Cruz, who is our best power hitter, isn't ready to hit cleanup yet.
Do you like Moreland better than Kinsler in the 2 hole?
Young and Andrus have roughly the same number of PAs. Young has grounded into 11 double plays this year. Andrus has grounded into 10. Young has 28 extra-base hits; Andrus 13. Young's OBP is .350; Andrus's is .320. To me, it's a no-brainer. Young in the 2 hole. The only reason to keep Andrus there is his speed, but I still think it's worth the trade off.
If this were a video game, maybe you would bat Moreland in the 2 hole against righties and Young there against lefties. Assuming neither player's performance dropped off as a result, that would be an awesome combination. But RW seems to think that the lineup is an entity unto itself, so he would never go for shuffling players around like that.
dare i say it? i dare..... why not try Moreland at 1st for a couple of games. granted he wont steal many bases his OBP is pretty decent. you could always put andrus at the 2 again and sac bunt him over to second.... but Andrus's hitting has also improved to a point where we could get both on and what not.
i know it sounds stupid, and i'll get ridiculed as all balls for not following the typical rules of having a guy who can hit but also steal a base or two. But just for a game or two i'd like to see how it would work out from a pure OBP standpoint.
Another major advantage of putting Young in the 2 hole, Cruz would be batting 5th, which is where he belongs. Hamilton/Beltre/Cruz/Moreland/Napoli. Talk about striking fear in the heart of opposing pitchers.
One of the things that I have to keep reminding myself is that this is the year 2011. Offensive numbers are down everywhere. The expectations we've built up over he last decade or so don't fly this year. It would be nice if Elvis was hitting .310 with a ton of walks, but that ain't happening for many guys right now. His numbers are good with runners in scoring position, he moves runners along, and flies on the base paths. I'd be ok with Young or Moreland in the 2 hole also for a lot of the same reasons everybody else has given.
Notify me of follow-up comments via email.