Forum > Sleeper TORP II
No offense, DCA - but you also heard that the Phils were eager to trade Cole Hamels this summer, which is simply insane talk. So I don't take much stock in this "I heard such and such" game you're playing.
WWJDD?
DCA, why would they want Moreland when they have total studs at all the positions he can play, e.g. Stanton in RF, Sanchez at 1B, and Morrison in LF? There's no DH in the NL.
Kristen W.
Jim, wow, what's your source?
Garrett
@WWJDD
check ESPN Rumors. you have to have the insider it addresss both Hamels and Billingsly. I tried to attach the link but something weird was going on with my IE. such a doubthing thomas....
in regards to JJ you are correct i didnt address his injury. mainly because i wasnt necessarily considering the JJ aspects of the trades but the overall effect the trade would have on the team as a whole. falling domino effect. JJ has been injury prone, however never Hambone/Kinsler/Cruz injury prone. You can expect him to go on the DL one a year however one 15 day stint. i was actually quite shocked when i saw they 60 dayed him. so yes that does worry me. Regardless. at this moment as the trade was proposed, i would not do it. solely because i'm not willing to give up both perez and ramirez. I dont know much about our minor league system i'll admit that, so i dont know much about erlin or our pitchers past that, but i'm afraid that if we give up both perez and ramirez that would leave us absolutely zero starting pitching in the near future which we all know can set you back years in this league.
Dcaggie06
@Kristen
This was according to a post by somebody else according to him FL wants Moreland. However you bring up a valid point in that that does seem odd in that they have very capable players in the positions that Moreland plays naturally at. Unless this is a premonition toward future moves they might be working on, youre absolutely right, it doesnt quite make sense why they would request moreland.
Although in the same post it also addresses the rangers attempt to change it from moreland to kinsler
Dcaggie06
Update: Its not Billingsly, the original posting says billingsly however when you click into the actual insider artical its broxton. which would not apply to us..... or would he? regardless thats espn's bad. not mine
Dcaggie06
I think you're onto something that LA might be sellers if they are still losing next month, but I think they'll probably hold onto Billings and Kershaw, since those guys are both pretty young and consistently good. If they are looking to dump salary, the 3 guys who might be available are Kuroda, Lilly, and Broxton - and also there's Garland & Padilla sitting on the DL with arm issues. Kuroda is a FA at the end of the season, and gets $12 mil - I would bet anything he would be first to go, since he's a solid middle of the rotation guy. Lilly is signed through '13, and has like $22 mil on his contract after this year. Broxton is at $7 mil this season and is a FA - but of course, he hasn't been very good for the past year, and he might be the wrong guy to go to for an upgrade.
Would you guys be excited about Kuroda as a rental player for the playoffs - if they could get him for cash and maybe 1 middling prospect?
WWJDD?
Billings & Kershaw... what's their Line against Philly?
HubZ
My source is probably as reliable as some of the idiotic crap I see put out here.
Jim H.
yeah i definately see 3 teams being sellers the dodgers and mets because of their financial situation, but dont be surprised if the cubs are major sellers as well, because they already have their heart set on getting either pujols or fielder in the offseason and both those guys want HUGE contracts.
if we could get pelfry or RA dickey i'd be down with that. like someone said previously and i've stated before i really wish there was SOME semblance of health in Santana. Cuz he could be worth the risk if they'd eat some of the contract. or possibly just take MY for santana and we bot just take the contracts as is... i dunno. regardless i have little hope he'll EVER be the same. granted i think we all thought the same as Carpenter, and he was able to make a decent comeback.
I hear santana is one of like 16-20 players thats trying to get the same procedure that Bartolo Colon got done. I dont know the exact details but its this experimental procedure that obviously would NEVER be done in america, but their doing it in Venzuela or Columbia or something like that.
Dcaggie06
Whoa man calm down. we just want to know where u got your information thats it
Garrett
@ Jim
yeah Kristen brought up a huge point that might debunk whatever paper you read that from. FL would be pretty stupid to ask for Moreland when they dont reallly need him. but who knows.
you pretty much can never trust the press anymore until typically like right around 3 days before a trade. no more than that. typically around 3 days something more gets said and the wind grabs a hold of it, and that stuff typically is accurate. prior to that is merely speculation.
Dcaggie06
I personally don't think Dickey or Pelfry would be a real upgrade. Could probably get them pretty cheap, but I don't think they would help all that much. But at the same time, I realize there just isn't that much available.
Nate
Ranger Org Commitment 2011~
RICH P~ laid out a scenario I'm semi-viewing also. The formula he gives is pretty
much dead on. Openly, TORP's are going to be a slim commodity of choice.
That being said, my view of Daniels to pry that comb of honey from tree,
is my belief something more than just a 'settle situation' will happen for Rangers.
Blind faith? Possibly, but I think he's a better AL GM than Cashman or Epstein.
His hands may seem tied by market availability, but the adage; "where there's a
will, there's a way", seems upfront... a prudent move to expect by our Ranger FO.
Owners are fickled kids, with a big boy toy. When the towel's thrown in, as
a lost season, cards are reshuffled automatically to save budget. Farm boys
hit their roster, with saving possibilities... salary dumps unexpectedly happen.
There lies the 'window' Daniels can leap through. Our new owners, a stretchable
budget and player commodities on hand, the Rangers- Daniels/Ryan, have more
opportunities to jump... only few teams can muster our trade fire power ability.
Command the front, Gen. Jon Daniels... the War is on horizon~ move forward.
Personally, I think we took it on the chin this past winter, by holding fast with Lee.
A. Beltre was a good move, but it didn't address questions of weakness; our staff.
So much for the learning curve. Defending the AL Champ bunker, by digging in with
available talent, was Spring Start Strategy. Address the problem; get needed pitching.
Being a Champion, brings bigger expectations from fans... it certainly should from Club.
Yankees or Red Sox wouldn't expect less, nor should our AL Champ Texas Rangers.
Remember the NEW Ranger commitment, by Club for 2011. My enthusiasm intact... still.
HubZ
JD is doing a great job and has developed as one of the top GMs in the game.
As he stated this is not the time to panic and have your pockets picked and overpay for someone's garbage.
JD is very smart and if a deal would make sense then he will surly do it.
Keep up the great work JD.
This is just a bad streak and we will bounce back soon.
Like Joey said in his article this morning, i just don't know where to put my finger to what is wrong with this team.
Garrett
I said it back during the off season and will say it again: This team needs a true #1 ace. They will not go far in the postseason without one. With a perennial ace like cliff lee, you have a good feeling that your team can win the 2 games that he pitches. Should've risked the years and money and kept him. I know I'm going to get bashed for bringing it back up, but we wont make it with this current rotation. I don't feel comfortable with anyone besides C.J. to tell you the truth.
Garrett
And who the hell believes Ogando's arm isn't going to fall off before September? His innings will catch up to him....Damn sometime i wish nolan would be more like Mark Cuban- Jerry Jones and step up to the plate and sign the top free agents...... Do any of the rest of y'all know how i feel based on the 3 posts?
Garrett
Garrett - you said "Should've risked the years and money and kept him" - referring to Cliff Lee. But Texas outbid Philly, so they did give him what he wanted. What he wanted was to pitch in Philly & in the NL, and not in Texas. So there's no use in beating that dead horse.
If you want to hold JD accountable, go up to HubZ's argument, which I think is right. Knowing full well that Lee might not sign, Texas should have had a better plan B than just sign the best available player regardless of position. They should have tried to get at least a decent innings eater, and perhaps a better bullpen arm than Rhodes. Actually, the bullpen looked good on paper going into the season, so I don't know what one can do there... people have just not performed up to expectations.
WWJDD?
Yeah it's hard for me to blame the front office on the Lee departure. Lee viewed free agency from the standpoint of where he wanted to end up, not who was offering the top dollar. His approach was a little different, but if he's happy with his choice he did the right thing.
Like a lot of you, I have a lot of faith in Daniels. If there's someone to be had I assume he'll be right in the mix. I didn't see Lee as a possiblity last year and was pleasantly surprised by that outcome.
I have a feeling that MLB is really watching that Dodger situation closely. I think they are not going to be allowed to just sell off their players, but who knows? The Mets just got a cash infusion from the addition of a minority owner, so their day-to-day may not be as bad as it was a month or two ago. We'll see. But if they are sellers I think Beltran and maybe Reyes go before the pitchers do.
Rich P
I dunno, I think we get pretty strait answers in here. We have writers that get
personal too, without holding back. They're involved fans, so it's just as draining
on them, if not more, as it is in our Forum. Maybe more so, because they have to
come up with a new positive tweak, to keep our interest? The readers support the
sight, which is more than I can say for MLBAM and their muppet & paid contributors.
You want to hear inane input & bashing, go try that MLB.com place for awhile.
I like the strait shooter approach here. We've got good input & of course a lot of
frustration mixed in also. It's the nature of baseball... but it's real. I'm not here to be
right, nor am I here to please or stroke anyone. I won't kiss ass, but I will offer points
and opinions. I'm pretty much a positive thinker and love my baseball, not just Rangers.
Maybe that makes it easier for me over others, that are tunnel viewed on the Rangers.
I lift my mug to all... we'll get through this in time. Cavalry II is coming. So is the ASB- rest.
HubZ
I think i might have found a solution to help our rotation in the BP and rotation. San Diego is one team that can be counted out of the playoff race, its just not gonna happen. they know it and we know it. Heath Bell will be highly desired by many teams so that will drive up his price, however by anyone taking him, it will also help them in regards of salary relief. Now i know ive brought him up before and for the most part the majority think they wouldnt trade him, but.... what do you think it would take to get Heath Bell and Mat Latos. I for one think for the right package, they'd give up Latos. For one he's been a late bloomer, and when drafted he was projected to be front rotation starter. a 1. so far he hasnt fulfilled that on top of locker room/attitude issues. Now, i'm sure i have you all wondering why the hell do we want this guy? Latos has cleared up his attitude and locker room issues and has been praised by heath bell himself for doing so. Thus last year he had his huge improvement year. He's had a down year this year compared to last, but many point to a few slight mechanical issues. those can be fixed. So if possible what do you think we'd have to give up, and would you do it. At minimum Bell leaves at the end of the year, but with Latos we'd have a solid 2,3 for a few year and if he does well could be extended.
One more thing... for the extreme baseballphiles out there.... instead of Latos, what about for a cheaper package Wade LeBlanc. i saw him pitch a few times last year and the kids got good stuff. reall good stuff. SD kinda rushed him along unfortunately, and now he's back in AAA but he's one guy i would take with the potential of not being used this year, but to develop and have a good pitcher very soon either next year starting, or later in the year after further evaluation. He's a work in progress, but in my eyes... well worth it.
Dcaggie06
DC - SD is a smart team and they will dump salary in exchange for prospects, to get younger and cheaper. I see them definitely trading Bell, and they are going to ask a lot for him, even if he is a closer - probably 3 good prospects. I think Texas could go there if they feel they have to, but you have to imagine that JD is wary of overpaying for a guy like Bell, who is older and has always pitched in a huge ballpark in the NL. Who knows what he would do here in Arlington. Latos though? I highly, highly doubt they would consider moving that guy while he's so young, good, & cheap. No - he's the kind of guy you build your rotation around for 5 years. You have to factor in the economics - it is stupid to move young guys who will perform above replacement level, because you're getting the most bang for your buck there.
WWJDD?
i hear what youre saying, but like economics you gotta give something to get something. im looking at it as a hopefully they can swing a "well we're taking bell off your hands.... giving you some youth... maybe you can help us out with latos... and maybe we can even offer holland as immediate youth and replacement." something like that. but i'm telling ya. check out that le blanc guy if you can....
Dcaggie06
I know nobody thinks toronto will give up ricky romero yet, but what do you think the chances are of acquiring Morrow? When healthy he has ALOT to bring to the table. high 90s fast ball. decent curve. DEVESTATING slider. could definately be worth looking at. The only thing that worries me about him is he's on the DL about as much as Hambone, Cruz, and Kinsler. Granted its naive to think you wont have a pitcher go on the DL its just nice to not have to worry about that either.... just another idea...
Dcaggie06


DCA: You still haven't addressed the one little glitch in the Josh Johnson idea, much bigger than the obvious issue of his team not wanting to trade him while he is still so cheap... He is on the shelf with a shoulder injury - for all anyone knows, he could be done & facing surgery. Dominant guys don't usually come back from serious shoulder problems the same - how do you even know he's J. J. anymore?