What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
We survived the injuries to Cruz and Hambone, Borbon is back, and Lowe and Kirkman have been impressive since their returns from AAA (congrats to the coaches their and the players btw) DO/AR are still useful for one inning as long as their not on back to back days.. Yoshi has been impressive as well, and Endy Chavez looks like a decent solution at center until Leonys is ready. My point is, the offense has improved, the BP is improving, and our only real glaring weakness is Feliz. granted we could still use one more option in the BP.
Right now is the time where the rangers and everyone at the forum is seriously considering trades. With all the above being said, now is a chance to possibly trade for a true TORP. When original trade forums began popping up it was assumed that we'd make a trade with CHW and hope to get Danks. However, looking at his record and the year he had, do you still consider him a TORP? What about Peavy? Originally a TORP, however injuries have taken him out of this category. However recently he's been pitching well. What about Bret Meyers, do you consider him a TORP?
My point, and question, are who are some underrated pitchers with either possible injury issues or bad years that the Rangers could nab on the cheap with a chance of this pitcher improving and being an absolute steal. What/Who do you think fits the bill?
Danks and / or Peavy would be good rotation guys to have (well, not sure how healthy Peavy is long term...), but I don't think they are aces by any stretch of the imagination. If you look around the league, there aren't a whole lot of those guys - good teams have one or two - many teams have none - guys who put up a lot of quality innings, quality starts, shutouts, high strikeout rates, and who shut down the opposing team on a regular basis. The problem is that those guys - especially the younger ones - are the most valuable commodity in baseball, so you don't often see them available on the trade market. By the time a guy gets to FA, he's usually going to be overpaid for what he will do over the course of a long contract at that age. The best way to acquire an ace is to draft one.
Having said all that, I wouldn't be surprised to see Texas go after someone like Bedard, although it already hurts enough that they got Smoak from us.
I would put Clayton Kershaw and Wandy Rodriquez on my short list. Maybe figure out a package deal for either Kershaw and Matt Kemp or Wandy Rodriquez and Michael Bourn. It would be very expensive in both prospects and cash but the returns could be impressive.
Some guys (closers & starters) I'm sure JD is watching:
J. Soria B. MyersH. StreetH. BellR. DempsterT. LillyM. CappsS. Baker
I'll stop there. Those are mostly high-dollar guys from losing, traditionally cash-strapped teams who might be available for either buyout or a prospect package deal.
LOL they aren't trading Kershaw... Lilly or Garland I bet they would love to move for prospects - but not Kershaw. Why would they trade Kershaw? That makes no sense.
Kershaw could be traded because they will never get more for him than they can now. The dodgers are in as bad a legal situation as any team in pro sports and if a team with some disposable income (like the Rangers) were to come forward with a significant cash offering plus top tier prospects the deal gets done. In another month the Dodgers will be well out of the race and at that point teams do seemingly stupid things to make/save a buck. Especially if the courts rule in favor of Frank McCourt's wife which essentially blocks the dodgers chances to sign a TV deal with Fox similar to the one the Rangers got this past winter. There has also been speculation that Selig would direct MLB to seize control of the Dodgers depending on what turns up in the wake of the financial investigation the league is currently conducting.
BTW I never said it was likely but making the call would be due diligence and worth the time and effort.
Not to mention the lawsuit that's being filed by the family of the Giants fan. The Dodgers are in a bad way.
Do we really want to give up much at this point for a closer? I mean, Feliz had a couple bad weeks, but he's still got 12 saves, where after Leo Nunez's crazy 19 saves, the next highest has 16. He pulled out 2 saves in back to back efforts this week with few problems, started to find his fastball, and started throwing a few other pitches. I mean, we may not be out of the woods yet, but let's slow down before we start talking about giving up much of anything for another closer. A couple weeks ago Feliz was a franchise player - you don't just give up on that after a couple shaky appearances and blown saves.
As for a TORP, though, I would suggest sending Ogando back to the bullpen if we were still having the same bullpen issues, but we've been getting good appearances from Yoshi and Lowe and Bush and Kirkman had pretty decent outings today. Maybe putting Holland in the bullpen as a little extra insurance if Tommy Hunter comes back. However, at some point we have to stop relying on Hunter coming back anytime soon this year - and in that case another starter would probably be a good idea. Of the pitchers WWJDD listed that are starters, I've always liked Ted Lilly. I've seen ups and downs from Dempster, don't know enough about Baker, and have never been a fan of Myers (though admittedly that was more as a person than as a pitcher)
Look, when a team is in financial ruins like LA is, they are going to jettison the baggage... i.e. the overpriced veterans. Kershaw's way too young and great to move now - and anyway, you guys certainly wouldn't be prepared to pay the price for him in prospects and talent. He would likely cost everything we have, something like Perez, Scheppers, Feliz, Profar, and Davis. But keep dreaming - it would be great to get a guy like Kershaw... but it ain't happening now.
I think another team to raid is the Mets. I think theyd be willing to give up pelfry or RA Dickey.... big question here.... is anybody willing to take a gamble on Johan Santana? I know he's owed alot of money, but you have to be THOUROUGHLY convinced he's done. things with him havent looked so well the past what 3 years? but carpenter was in a similar situation.... but then again so was Kerry wood and mark prior.... so yeah...
I think we could get lilly. Bret Meyers is Houstons #1 and obtainable, but he'd be what a 4, or 5 here borderline? how much different is he than tommy hunter besides health? dunno how i feel about Baker. i'd take him over liriano, but he's so unreliable... No way Dodgers give up Kershaw without us having to give up feliz. that'd be the gamble there. Kershaw is young and good, and feliz is already starting to develop his doubters... makes you wonder how Nolan and JD would feel about pulling the trigger on a deal like that cuz Kershaw is a true 1. i'd put him over CJ.
I've brought him up before but i'd be willing to take a gamble on Carlos Zambrano. if it just took some cash and maybe gentry or borbon why not? theres no denying he's got dood stuff when locked in, he's just a mental mess. maybe i'm overrating the powers of Wash and Maddux, but Bradley worked out while he was here however briefly, and I think the latin influence in the locker room would be and added benefit. Hell he's pretty much on par with harry or holland right now, witht he potential of pitching like CJ or Colby if locked in. i think he's worth a gamble.
Id like to try and get wandy or lilly. I like them both. Their not aces but they are definitely solid pickups. Honestly if I could chose between an ace and then #5s from there on or have three #2s and then two #3s id go with the latter.A rotation of:C.j.Wandy Rodriguez/Ted LillyColbyHarrisonOgandoWith holland and eventually tommy in the bullpen. Sounds good to me.The problem this year is "RIGHT" at this very moment no team has said a good quality staff ace is available. Give it time though. Some team will come out and say that so and so is available and it'll be someone we're not expecting.Think Beckett BOS, Romero TOR, Cain SFNot saying they will but just an idea.
Our starting staff seems to be the least of our problems, with a couple of possibly dominant young starters showing signs of maturity (MH, DH, AO). Forget trading the farm for a starter. Smaller deals to bolster the bullpen and sort out the reserve outfielder nightmares. This team is on the right track and doesn't need to shake the earth.
Problem is, JW - the playoffs. They need a shut down guy for the playoffs. But other than that, I generally agree with you that adding a good bullpen piece or two will do wonders and is the main thing they must address.
@JW and anyone else in general
the hope of a "sleeper" Torp is that we can use unused pieces of our team (chris davis, borbon, murphy, etc... and cash, and possibly ONE minor prospect Beltre, Scheppers... in an attempt to get a guy basically while he's down, in hopes that he can become something greater after the trade. By no means do we want to raid the farm again like last year (we have so few left) for any additional help.
Thats the hope in targetting someone like Wandy Rodriguez, or John Danks, Mike Pelfry etc. you give a litttle in hopes of getting alot. Unfortunately its basically the Webb Harden deals, involving trades instead of FA pickups. Neither one has paid off... however i'm sure Wandy or what not would payoff better than those two have.
dont even tempt me with romero you d@mn tease! that would single handedly shore up the rotation. but i dunno if i'd be willing to part with profar and perez to get it done....
speaking of Cain though.... another example of sleeper TORP could be Zito... could he put it all together with a scenery change. would being back in the AL help. or has he lost it altogether....
TEX pitching is #5 in the AL ... TEX can win the ALW with the pitching and offense it has and stands only behind NYY against the rest of the AL... so I see no reason to trade for a TORP.
If you want to acquire an SP that is going to be a lock on better performer than Harrison, Hunter, or Feldman fine ... but that isn't a TORP.
I didn't include Holland because as the team's #5 both Hunter or Feldman should be able to bump him easily or they don't make the rotation at all. Right now Ogando is pitching is the #3 and pitches in the #4 spot to break up the second and third LHPs.
Bedard is the cheap rental name that intrigues me at the moment. Long run, if this team is going to have a true TORP his name will be Feliz, or Ogando, or Perez (Martin or even in 3-4 years David), or (long shot) Erlin or Ramirez or (really long shot) Mendez. You just have to develop these guys and then hold onto them.
That's why I might rather trade now for a true closer with a reliable track record, multiple controllable years and a pricey contract that someone really wants to dump, give up Scheppers and spare part prospects for him, and use him to close now with Feliz sretched out to go 2-3 innings out of the 'pen as a long setup man, with the full commitment given to Feliz as starter next season (when CJ inevitably gets a silly-big contract from Bos or NYY).
You don't pay top-of-the-rotation prices for guys that are not top-of-the-rotation pitchers. There's only about a dozen guys that I consider to be TORP's, at last look none was available. Most of guys mentioned here are little more than 4th or 5th starters. Trading for starting depth is okay, but it's not the same thing as a TORP.
Wandy Rodriguez or Ted Lilly do nothing for me. I don't see how they make the team better. Bedard makes Brandon McCarthy look like the picture of health, plus if Seattle's going to hang around the AL West race they're not going to deal him to Texas. Zambrano is a mental patient, no way I get involved with him.
Better names than that have to shake free to go all in in July.
Just curious, to grab a somewhat general census...
How many of you out there believe that a change of scenery or switch in leagues or change of mgmt can change a pitcher from CURRENTLY pitching as a 3,4,5 (or a 1,2 with injury issues or a currently bad record) into a true 1 or 2. Is there anybody? Any examples (its friday and thinking is hard for me lol) or do the majority believe that if a guy is pitching like a 3,4,or 5 when traded they will continue to pitch as a 3, 4, or 5.
Just curious. As far as examples i actually can only think of the exact opposite... Peavy, Zito, Harden..Santana (granted the majority of these are injuries)
maybe this whole concept was pointless.....
A #3, #4, or #5 SP is pretty much within the margin of the definition of a replacement value starter.
Switching leagues may be a plus if the pitcher is a TORP ... and switching from AL to NL may gain some effectiveness ... but all in all if you are making an offseason FA signing of a #3 then that's about all you can expect. Midseason trades for SPs is a crap shoot ... and in my opinion the losing team will ask for the moon if you are looking to make a trade for their #3 ... let alone #4 or #5.
You'd be better off just picking up an arm on the waiver wire ... sign to a minor league deal ... and let them work for a month or so at AAA and see if they provide you anything ... if not then no loss.
The scenery itself has a lot to do with it... and by that I mean that an expansive ballpark can make a guy look really good, and the right field jet stream can make the same guy look really, really bad.
Some great discussion here, but none of the names being mentioned are TORP's. I would rather rely on CJ, Colby or Ogando in a big playoff game than Danks, Bedard or Wandy or Zito, etc. We could use another reliable starter as depth (maybe we already have that in Hunter or Feldman if/when healthy?), but our rotation is not going to get light years better at any time this season without emptying the farm for someone like Felix H. We have three #2/#3 starters that have performed really well so far. We are in better shape than almost any team in the league short of the Phils/A's and maybe one or two others.
"We are in better shape than almost any team in the league short of the Phils/A's and maybe one or two others."
Well OAK, SEA, LAA, NYY. PHL is in the other league. :-V
Since you mention the Phils.... he he
i have a friend in philly (strange i know cuz a true cowboys fan should not associate with ppl from philly, yet i digress) and according to him, the talk around town is that the Phillies would be willing to trade Cole Hamels for the right package to upgrade their offense.
Does this float your boat? i'd totally be willing to part with Nellie to get this done but i'm a little biased towards Hamels. He's still young, still a little immature, but i think like fine wine, as he ages the better and better he's gonna get.
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