I am moving to Colorado in May so it would make sense. Looks like I might get a few more years of MY either way.

LOL @ Joe criticizing someone for lack of brevity.

Pull T,

I deserved that. Its just that I can't stand the way the long titles look, I guess its just a pet peeve.

Joe

Any expected backlash from trading MY would be minimized significantly if the trade were coupled with an announcement of the signing of Josh Hamilton to a long-term contract. The passing of the torch for the Rangers' "Face of the Franchise" would thereby be formally communicated to the fanbase.

Thanks Joey, as a diehard ranger fan, i look to express and inform ya'll with information, not to have this little drama that looks and sounds ridiculous @ Joe get a life man, seriously? All you do is sit on here all day and cause drama... Oh, and you say my title of this thread was too long, you should look at all the long annoying posts you have made on both the forum and the main posts... No hard feelings here, just wanted to throw that out there.

Garrett

Uhh, Is this a bad time? Family Spat? Well, anyway, I'm thinking this MY trade talk is a monumental faceoff between JD and Nolan. If MY goes and the Rangers season goes South then Nolan was correct. If JD succeeds and moves MY and the season maintains status quo or better then JD wins and gains extra clout...Like sans Nolan interference. Or JD gets his Big Boy Pony. I think there is a deeper rift than meets the public eye. I hope I'm wrong and, too, I hope it does not end up ruining Ranger locker room chemistry and W/L record. It is the collosal battle of Age vs Youth. The Master and the Student face off.
It could be bad beer and cold pizza.

I would like to see the Rangers work something out with the Cardinals for Colby Rasmus. Whether that means the Rangers send Young, Davis, another prospect and pick up per half of Young's salary I would love that trade. Plus I've heard that Rasmus and LaRussa don't always see eye to eye.

It makes no sense to trade Young and eat much of his salary except that now he is probably demanding that JD do something because he will not stand for status quo. This is a mess. It will be polarizing the team as it has done here in this forum. It probably has already affected team chemistry and no telling where this will end or what it will undermine. I wonder what Hamilton thinks about it with his arb coming up. My guess is it throws a lot out of the window and he'll take what he can get now as well when he is a FA. Why shouldn't he? You messed up JD.

Hamilton was always going to take what he could get. The hometown discount on Hamilton was always a pipedream.

It makes no sense to think that Young will ever play the field (regularly) in Texas again, as the Rangers have younger, better players at all of his potential positions under team control through the length of his current contract.

It makes noe sense for either the Rangers of Young for him to DH for 3 years. It makes no sense for the Rangers because he is a player in decline who is ALREADY both a marginal DH and keeping better hitters on the bench (Napoli and Murphy). Not to mention, the Rangers might need DH for Hamilton at some point in the next 3 seasons. It makes no sense for Young because he clearly views DH as being something like half a starter. He won't be happy never being a regular positional defender again.

It makes no sense for Young to accept being reduced to a strictly backup role, since he clearly won't be happy with that outcome, has earned better, and is still capable of playing everyday for a lesser team, which would clearly make him happier.

The only circumstance in which it would make any sense to keep Young a Ranger is one in which Ian Kinsler was being traded somewhere as the lead piece in a package for an Ace.

So if it makes basically no sense for Young to play out his entire 3 years as a Ranger, then it makes absolutely no sense for the Rangers NOT to trade him prior to his gaining 10/5 rights.

Just do it already.

@ Joey: the degree to which Michael Young becomes an asset with half the salary paid is dependant at least in part on how the other team believes he might fare defensively @ 2B, which at this point is pure, unsupported speculation. If Colorado believes he can be a league average 2B defensively, at $8m/yr cost to them he might look like an excellent asset with a bat that still plays up very nicely against the league-wide pool of 2Bs

Wait - why again is Murphy a "better" hitter than Young? I'm failing to see the criticism on Young's hitting, except for his marginal power. But Murphy isn't exactly a power hitter either. I'm not looking at numbers, but just from "they eye" I would think that Michael hits for a better average and must get on base as much as Murphy. And Young always has good doubles power.

So I would like for someone to help me see the light by making the argument that Murphy is a better hitter.

Please?

@ scooby I would also like to know how Murphy & Napoli are both better jitters than young? That is one of the craziest things I have ever heard. Please do tell.

Alright. Here are some numbers. Full slash lines read (BA/OBP/SLG/OPS)

Young 2010: 284/330/444/774
Young Career: 300/347/448/795

Murphy 2010: 291/358/449/806
Murphy Career: 282/342/460/803

Murphy is a better career slugger and OPS hitter than Young. Career. This includes Young's glory days of the batting title, etc. Of course, Young is in decline, while Murphy is an improving player. In 2010, Murphy was better than Young in every part of the slash line. Factor in the large number of Pinch Hit appearances (and note that there is considerable statistical evidence that players fare much worse when pinch hitting than in the regular flow of the game as a starter) and it becomes clear that Murphy is the better overall hitter than Young.

Furthermore, here are the slashes for 2010 post-All-Star-break, when both men were playing regularly and Murphy had a chance to get some rhythm due to long injuries by Cruz/Hamilton:

Young: 262/302/401/703
Murphy: 311/388/509/897

Now let's look at Napoli:

Napoli 2010: 238/316/468/784
Napoli Career: 251/346/485/831

So again, we have Napoli, just like Murphy, as a higher OPS hitter than Young both in 2010 and for his career. And of course, Napoli has played his home games in a less friendly hitting environment than Young thus far in his career.

But let's look at splits. Against RHP, who should start between Murphy, Young, and Napoli? Let's look at some #s:

2010
Murphy: 298/368/479/847
Young: 270/314/425/739
Napoli: 208/277/423/700

2008-2010 Cumulative:
Murphy: 286/354/485/839
Young: 290/337/438/775
Napoli: 239/316/473/789

And against LHP?

2010
Napoli: 305/399/567/966
Young: 322/374/497/871
Murphy: 272/328/386/696

2008-2010 Cumulative:
Napoli: 310/406/581/987
Young: 308/372/485/857
Murphy: 256/298/368/666

So not only are both Murphy and Napoli better hitters than Young, when you look at a platoon split of Napoli vsLHP and Murphy vsRHP you're looking at roughly a .100 total advantage in OPS. Huge.

Note also that Napoli's 3-year OPS is better than Young's both vsLHP and vsRHP despite Napoli's reputaion as a vsLeft specialist. And, again, despite Young playing in the friendlier park.

I see what those #'s say, but on the average young drives in more runs per year than Murphy or Napoli & scores more runs. Which I realize young has played in more games. The bottom line to me is run production I look at RBI & runs scored more so than some of the slash line numbers. To me RBI is the most important stat I think OPS is important but somewhat overrated! Thanks for going through all the trouble Scooby, but I will still take young's leadership & run production #'s over murphy's & napoli's ops and I am a big Murphy fan but to me he is what he is a nice 4th outfielder & that is all.

Also with the way the lineup sets up without Young I can really only see this team winning about 80 games. I have no idea who would be able to handle the bat like young does to move runners over batting in the two hole & having productive outs. If anyone says kinsler should hit in the two hole you know zip about how to make out a lineup card. Also the lineup will be real left hand heavy without young. If young is gone think about this you are locked in to borbon or Murphy & morland vs all lefties & that will not bode well for winning many games. I know moreland has hit lefties well in the minors but he did not fair to well last year in the majors. I just hate the idea of this trade.

@Mike Walters

It seemed to me like MY was a choke artist this year. He had quite a few untimely strikeouts.

I think Young is a terrible situational hitter. Too many Ks, not enough BBs, WAY to many GIDPs. I would prefer Moreland or Murphy in the 2 hole. I also tghink Kinsler could thrive with Josh as his protection. Beltgre, Cruz, and Hamilton are also all good options in the 2 hole, as is Napoli vsLHP.

MY played nearly everyday thus seeing 700 PA and suggesting he hit whomever was on the mound. Your other selective 'Cherry-Pickers' only hit their most optimal pitchers. MY was there everyday ready to compete while your pinch hitters and sunny day players hit only those Wash found to be more situational.
If the trade goes down, I can't see Wash being happy with his options. If Beltre goes in the tank it won't take long for those runs he saves defensively to be lost in average. The only thing constant is change in baseball. I wouldn't say 80 W but I can see 86-87 W. And a changing of the Guard in the FO.

Michael Young is in such decline that the Rangers are trying to get rid of him before he becomes worthless. Get what you can now, free up some money to sign or trade for a big time pitcher when the time is right. Young was just horrible at third base last year, and his bat is getting so slow that he can barely get the ball fair into right field!!!

I'm thinking 96-66.

@scobie

Probably a few free agents will only go for the most money. Mostly, I think, if we're talking 10-12 mil a year, players are going to play where they want to play at a difference of 1-2 mil a year. How much money does it take to buy what you want and live the way you want to live? If JD is fine lining the slash lines and trading loyal players, what will Hammy or CJ or anyone else think of what the FO thinks of any ball player or what they might do? I guess it takes all types to make the world go around. If Hammy will take to most that he can get, it is because loyalty and hard work and standing for something doesn't mean anything anymore. I guess this world has passed me by.. I am a Murph fan. All I know about Napoli is he is a pretty good hitter but he is not much defensively and strikes out a lot. I din't think either one could win a batting title in their best year. MY had a bad year defensively. He does have limited range and he is getting older but Murph and Napoli are not better players! And you want to give him away at any price, give me a break.

@ fishbair:

The evidence since Free Agency began, and in every sport, is that the vast majority of players will take $12m from anyone over $10m from a more preferred club. Not every player. Cliff Lee didn't. Some aging players "go for the ring" at the end of their career. But the vast majority (just spitballing, but 85%?) do. Now, if the difference is 1 or 2% of the net total value, that's a different story. Then a player may very well choose comfort over max value. But not over a 20% difference.

I think we have to assume that if CJ Wilson hits FA, we're going to have to be the highest bidder (or effectively tied for highest bidder) to keep him. I presume the same is true of Hamilton if it gets that far. Of course, you'll get a discount of some sort for locking him up 2-years prior to FA, but that's not a loyalty discount, it's a self-centered financial calculation by the player.

As for Murphy or Napoli winning a batting title, sure, that won't happen. But of course, 2011 Young isn't really batting title material anyway, and as for Napoli, he's a classic low-average, high-strikeout, high-power, and (critically) high-walk hitter. Young is a career .300 hitter, but only posts a career OBP of .347. Napoli is just a career .251 hitter, but posts a .346 OBP.

I think you're guessing on FA. As far as stats,they are measurements of certain things that have happened in the past. Statisticians hope they have manupulated correctly to reflect talent. I guess the important thing is being able to recognize what percenage of the time they are correct. They are a tool that helps when taken with good scouting, training and management as well as good trading savvy (JD). Stats have gotten better for projections but if they were correct, the team with the best stats would win everytime. In MLB, I doubt they would win 10% of the time. Too many other factors.

If the Rangers just need or desperately need to cut payroll,and are willing to take less OK. I don't think they will make the team better by trading him for what they realistically can get.

Thanks for replying..

Every good player has this goal of playing 15 yrss of MLB.
It seems common and for many it's obtainable. Mikey,
with good career choices, could hit that magic number.
Certainly with the Rockies, his chances are much bigger.
Not only play, but play as a starter and contributer. Coors
Field was made for Mike Young, especially his bat. He loves
to play 2nd Base and it is his best position. Tops NL West?
Certainly a contender, which he would want. Seems a fit for MY.