What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Who will be the new home run king around the year 2020 once Pujols and AROD are retired or close to it?
Or someone else?
I think A Rod only because he started three years earlier then Pujols. But Pujols will have the better slash line then A Rod
Both roid and STILL do.
Hank Aaron will be the HR King forever.
I don't think Pujols roids, and I don't think he ever did either.
AROD's numbers are definitely inflated though because of his roid use earlier on, and one would expect his HR numbers to fall off perhaps as he ages off the drugs.
Pujols looks like he does but he has never been implicated and no one, to my knowledge has ever pressed him on it. Plus he has clean tests to prove he doesn't. Could he have cheated the tests, possible, but he's innocent in my book. He is a freak of nature though.
Pujols won't make it cause he's actually like 34.
And as i see it, Bonds, A-Rod, Pujols and Aaron all used PEDs, so I discount the idea that Bonds isn't the HR king
Aaron used PEDs? Might need to explain that one.
And the drugs being created today are created to avoid triggering a test. You pay players as much as they are being payed and you'll always be ahead of the drug testing. You, however, can't avoid coming down off a cycle, which is the only time stars are caught these days (ie Manny).
The PEDs Aaron used were known as "Greenies", and the were basically illegal Speed (amphetimenes). Not the same as steroids, but certainly illegal drugs used to enhance performance. They used to be out in a little candy dish in every clubhouse in baseball back in the day (or so the stories go). I assume this is what Pull T is referring to.
Isn't Pujols 31?
If you are going to talk that way Pull T then the Babe is the only home run king.
Forget them all, but I am not convinced that Pujols has ever roided and Aaron didn't either.
Yup....greenies and good ol' "leaded" coffee
No, Joe...I see Bonds as the HR King...he hit the most.
I leave the moralizing and demonizing to others. I only mentioned the Pujols rumor as it pertaints to his ability to get to 762.
Whatever man, its obviously legitimate to call Bonds' HR totals into question. He was hitting HR's at an inhuman pace at the end, 6 per at bat. Besides, with a voice like that I don't think you can be considered a king of any kind, maybe squeaky king.
In my book Aaron is the HR king right now. Bonds would have never got there without the roids. Your arguments about greenies and caffeine being on the same level as steroids are just sort of laughable.
Maybe you just don't want to judge the actions of those who took steroids because you would have done the same thing? I'm not attacking you, just making a suggestion. And if that is true I guess you aren't really qualified at all to make a judgment on the matter.
Its not about moralizing, its just about being realistic that Bonds and others had a massively unfair advantage over others because of the roids. The advantage was not even close to as unfair when we are talking about greenies and caffeinated coffee.
For the record...the "leaded coffee" in my context was laced with amphetamines...sorry that was so unclear. Obviously you haven't read much about amphetamine use in baseball cause that is a common term.
I don't want to judge the actions of others because I don't think it's my place, especially when it comes to something I view as mere entertainment. Tom Cruise is a frigging midget, do I consider his performances illegitimate cause he wears shoe lifts and stands on stools?
Not to mention that you or I have no idea who did what...as far as the so called steroid era goes or the 60s. Hell, Tom House links steroids back to Aaron's Braves in the early 70s. (Davey Johnson's power surge in 73 anyone?)
You are right about one thing though...I'd inject or ingest anything to play in the Bigs...
Baseball mirrors history...every era has its negatives and the current era suffers from its lack of benefit from nostalgia. In 2060, our grandkids will have some new "worst thing to ever happen in baseball" and will look back to the good old days of the steroid era and the racist era...
He does have a squeeky ass girly voice but you gota admit if he had hit most of those HRs with the Rangers we would all love that guy.
1st- Hank Aaron is a punk hypocritical bitch. He used greenies. There is a dark place in hell for him, and I hope he enjoys it.
2nd- What proof do you have on Pujols? You are a moron.
3rd.- Ruth is king.
Aaron freely admits that he used greenies. How is he hypocritical?
He's a hypocrite because he admits to use, yet claims it didn't help his performance.
He's also a hypocrite for criticizing ballplayers who used drugs illegally even though they weren't banned in MLB....when he did the exact same thing.
I think the difference between roids and greenies is so big as to render your comparison almost completely meaningless. Roids give one a massive advantage as evidenced by the fact that Bonds was hitting a HR every six times to the plate in the latter part of his career. Greenies render at best a marginal advantage while roids give one a huge advantage.
Of course I am not justifying the use of greenies either but its not like taking one things is the moral equivalent of taking another thing.
Of course I find all of this somewhat mute because you yourself admit to the fact you would use any drugs to play in the bigs. This makes it pretty obvious that you have an agenda in leveling the differences between different sorts of actions in order to prove that those who claim moral superiority are actually no different than those who have taken roids. You do this because you are trying to defend those who have indulged immoral behavior because you yourself would do the same thing given the chance.
1. It's "moot"
2. I am not a scientist, so I don't know how to quantify the difference between greenies and roids to determine the exact point one becomes "moral" or "immoral" If the advantages of greenies were so "meaningless", why would otherwise seemingly stand up guys like Aaron break the law to use them?
3. Your straw man argument and moralization still doesn't address the fact that Aaron is a hypocrite and cheated, yet chastises those that did the same thing. He probably didn't get as big of an advantage, but he doesn't have clean hands and should STFU.
4. I have no problem with the legitimacy of Aaron's numbers, same as with Bonds. I let the numbers do the talking, not my medical accumen, innuendo and moralization. You obviously like judging others, so go ahead and enjoy.
Its not that I like judging others its just that when a spade is staring me right in the face I generally call it a spade, and that very well could be a character flaw in many situations.
I never claimed that Aaron was innocent, only that using greenies gives one a far inferior advantage than using roids does.
I also never said using greenies was morally insignificant, only that the leveling between greenies and roids, as if they give any comparable level of advantage, is more or less meaningless.
If we universalize your rule, that no one can "moralize" who has ever been immoral, you exclude the entire human race from ever trying to understand what is moral and what is not. I guess if you are a nihilist that's great, but it doesn't seem like you are.
By the way, I don't judge Bonds, I just see the obvious reality that his numbers are radically inflated because of his roid use in a way that Aaron's are not regardless of greenie use. There is a difference between judging actions and judging people. Only God judges people in the end while it is possible with difficulty for human beings to judge actions.
It's baseball, not frigging bible camp...
Get over yourself dude.
One thing that gets lost in all of this is the fact that players have almost always cheated. Greenies are technically cheating, even though it isn't to the same extreme that steroids is. The problem is guys like Bonds and Clemens just had better ways to cheat. There is no way to know whether any other hall of famer would have had the moral fortitude to not cheat. There is no easy answer.
Baseball does not operate in a realm outside of the necessity of morality.
Its never easy not to cheat but it is the right thing to do. I've actually cheated before (not at baseball) and I freely condemn my actions. I'm not putting myself on a pedestal, but it is not necessary to be completely innocent in order to advance basic moral norms.
I can't imagine that HOFers of the past had any comparable advantage in cheating as Bonds and others did during the roid era. However, many of them may well have taken roids if they had the chance. People with moral strength are usually in the minority. But the fact that they had no comparable advantage through cheating by some other means does not cause one to call their numbers into question in the same way that one ought to call into question Bond's inhuman HR per every 6 at bats late in his career.
So since Bonds would have still been a hall of famer without steroids, should he still be voted in? I agree that Bonds was juicing and should be punished, but since your argument seems to be "without steroids those guys wouldn't have the numbers to get in," it makes sense that Bonds should be let in because he was clearly a hall of famer before he took steroids.
That makes sense I guess. What do you think about Pete Rose and the Hall?
I more take issue with the fact he is the HR king which really pisses me off because he obviously had a massively unfair advantage when he was putting up inhumanly juiced HR numbers.
Honestly, if Pujols really is clean I really hope he can be the king because it would bring a little dignity back to the game after the stain of the steroid era. I'm not saying it was all moral before the steroid era but that doesn't take away from the profound damage that era did to the game. The game's humanity took a big hit.
Regardless the Babe is no doubt the greatest power hitter of all time. I've heard of studies that say in today's game he would have hit at least 800 HR's. And the mound was higher back then giving the pitcher the advantage while the balls were wound loser giving them less pop. Any advance in pitcher mechanics and evolution in control or pitch movement would seem to be offset by those factors. And the Babe certainly wasn't roiding, he was just strong as an ox with the best hand eye ever.
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