Latest Forum Topics
Search
Sponsors

Featured Article

MJH on accountability

Sponsors

Sponsors

Forum > WAR Analysis of Defense

I don't have the knowledge to do this but I would love to see a WAR analysis of our defense as compared to other teams. Except for 1st base we seem to have an excellent defense. In terms of WAR just how good is this defense? And how does it compare to the best defenses in baseball?

1B Moreland/Young (maybe you could plug MM in as league average and MY in as somewhat below)
2B Kinsler
SS Andrus
3B Beltre
C Torrealba
LF Hamilton
CF Borbon/Gentry platoon
RF Cruz

January 18, 2011 at 11:51 AM | Unregistered CommenterJoe

Joe - Before I say anything else about this, let me say that any defensive analysis that relies heavily upon statistics is extremely unreliable. Of all the possible methods for calculating WAR, Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference are the most widely known. Between the two methods, the offensive components produce remarkably consistent results; however, the defensive components are wildly inconsistent. For example in 2010, here are some players WAR totals from both sites (Player name - Fangraphs WAR, Baseball-Reference WAR):

Evan Longoria – 6.9, 7.7
Shin-Soo Choo – 5.6, 7.3
Joey Votto – 7.4, 6.2
Josh Hamilton – 8.0, 6.0
Albert Pujols – 7.3, 7.2
Ryan Zimmerman – 7.2, 5.3
Adrian Beltre – 7.1, 6.1

Does that help in illustrating the margin of error for defensive metrics? Just think for a 2 win difference like that of Josh Hamilton, that’s a 20 run difference (10 runs created or saved = 1 win generally). Also, defensive metrics generally have an even harder time with 1B and catcher than other defensive positions.

Having established the extremely poor accuracy of defensive metrics, I’ll go ahead and attempt to give you some dWAR numbers for the projected Rangers lineup.

Baseball-Reference (all values are positive except for MY):
1B Moreland/Young (we’ll go with your guess here +0 for MM and -.5 for MY)
2B Kinsler (.5-1.5)
SS Andrus (.5-1.5)
3B Beltre (.5-2.0)
C Torrealba (.5-1.0)
LF Hamilton (.5-1.0)
CF Borbon/Gentry platoon (0-.5)
RF Cruz (0.5-2.0)

Essentially projecting the metrics for this group is useless, and it will take a long time to make some predictions as to how they’ll compare statistically to other teams. For now the best thing we can do is listen to scouts and what our own eyes tell us. Consider that in Elvis Andrus and Adrian Beltre we have two players who have defensive skill sets that scouts deem “special” and that Ian Kinsler is also in that class when his ADHD does have him off in the clouds. Remember that adding Beltre will affect the defense on the entire infield. Since he can make much further to his left than MY (really much further in any direction), it will allow Elvis and Ian latitude to position themselves a little farther to the left and will take some pressure off of Moreland, Young, or whoever is covering 1B. Cruz is already one of the best defensive RF in baseball, and he’s still improving. If Hamilton stays in LF and Cruz/Borbon are in CF with Murphy as the backup, the outfield defense would be average on a bad day, and at times incredible (this decreases if sees a ton of time in CF). All in all, the Rangers line up to be one of the best defenses in all of baseball in 2011.

January 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM | Unregistered CommenterDave H

Oh and one more thing Joe -
Just like they set up the pitch f/X system a while back to measure the movement and velocity of every pitch, they are starting to implement a system of cameras designed to do the same thing for fielding (field f/X). Perhaps the biggest problem with defensive metrics today is the quality of the data used for the formulas. If we know exactly what happened on every play, we can at least have accurate data before it's plugged into formulas to create TZ, DRS, +/-, or UZR. Then we can start to see exactly how much the formulas disagree and most likely create new more accurate formulas to calculate how many runs a defender is actually worth.

January 19, 2011 at 10:33 AM | Unregistered CommenterDave H

Dave H,

This is very interesting, thanks for the educating comments. You are probably right about he futility of defensive WAR calculations at least as they currently stand, but it might be interesting to compare your guess work numbers for TX in 2011 to the team considered to have the best defense last year anyways.

I'm very excited about our defense and I hope that we can keep Hamilton out of CF although I'm not happy about the hit Murphy would take with a Gentry/Borbon platoon. The big three infielders are awesome and Cruz would be awesome in right with Hamilton in left. I just think anyone is going to have a hard time hitting anything in the gap, and I love the idea of Andrus and Kinsler positioning a step or two to the right, just think about how many more balls they are going to get to. It is going to be a thing of beauty.

Joe

January 19, 2011 at 11:04 AM | Unregistered CommenterJoe

Joe - in 2010, the Diamondbacks led MLB in UZR at 58.3. I could certainly see the Rangers besting that mark by 25 or being under it by 40. Individual and team totals for UZR vary wildly year-to-year (same thing for TZ, +/-, DRS, and any other defensive stat that's ever been used to calculate the defensive component of WAR). That being said, I'll guess that the Rangers will best the Diamondbacks 2010 mark of 58.3 (~65?).

January 19, 2011 at 11:53 AM | Unregistered CommenterDave H

Wow, great work, Dave H.

I might add to your comment on the difficulty of evaluating Catcher D that defensive metrics typically don't even try to measure pitch calling, which might be the most important part of Catcher defense. Calling a game is more of an art than a science, as is framing pitches and "handling" a young staff. Torrealba is (supposedly- I have not had the chance to see much of him) very good at all of these things.

January 19, 2011 at 12:27 PM | Unregistered CommenterScooby Dude

Torrealba had the best catcher's ERA in the majors last year, but that wouldn't be all that significant. When you consider that no catcher had as good a catcher's ERA SINCE 2003, now that is significant, or awesome depending on your temperment.

January 19, 2011 at 12:45 PM | Unregistered CommenterJoe

He probably had the best catchers ERA because he played for SD last season

January 20, 2011 at 9:55 AM | Unregistered CommenterMartin

Here are some informative links about catcher ERA:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/6/19/919142/please-everyone-stop-using

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1489

Bill James also has an unpublished study that basically destroys the possibility of CERA having any statistical significance.

January 20, 2011 at 2:19 PM | Unregistered CommenterDave H

As unreliable as analysis of catchers' defensive abilities can be, Beyond the Boxscore publishes Catcher Defense Rankings. They might be unreliable, but if a guys is ranked number 1 (out of 120), it's probably safe to say that he shouldn't be considered #50. Yorvit Torrealba was ranked #6 in 2010, so it's probably safe to say he's at least in the top half of the league defensively. Here's a link to the rankings:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/11/10/1803183/2010-beyond-the-box-score-catcher-defense-rankings

January 20, 2011 at 2:29 PM | Unregistered CommenterDave H

Dave H,

That is why I said that he not only had the best CERA in baseball but in the past 7 years of baseball. That is a lot of catchers which makes the point that he is obviously a great game caller. And yes there are many other factors like the Padres great pitching but it still stands out as an indication that you have a great game caller in my opinion.

Joe

January 20, 2011 at 3:10 PM | Unregistered CommenterJoe

Now that i think about it Yorvit probably had something to do with SD's Great pitching

January 20, 2011 at 3:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartin

Jose Felix is the Rangers best defensive catcher. How does he compare to Yorvit? Is he better then him defensivly? When will we see him in Arlington? As soon as next year? At least as the backup behind Yorvit

January 20, 2011 at 9:18 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartin

My essay in the upcoming Rangers annual actually focuses on the Rangers' defensive improvements over the last few years, and touches on some of the pros/cons associated with the current array of defensive metrics. I hope some people enjoy it. They will probably enjoy Jason's scouting essay more, though, Hahaha.

Dave H,

That is why I said that he not only had the best CERA in baseball but in the past 7 years of baseball. That is a lot of catchers which makes the point that he is obviously a great game caller. And yes there are many other factors like the Padres great pitching but it still stands out as an indication that you have a great game caller in my opinion.

Here's the thing, though -- don't look at catcher's ERA. Seriously. Don't do it. It might confirm what the more reputable measures of catcher defense show, such as the BTB study Dave linked (which is hardly a holistic or precise metric -- very far from it, in fact), but just because it dovetails with the other indications that Torrealba is a good defensive catcher DOES NOT mean it is a valid statistic in the larger scheme of things. It is far more a function of the pitching talent with which a catcher has to work than his game-calling ability, pitch framing, or what have you.

January 21, 2011 at 3:27 AM | Unregistered CommenterJoey Matschulat