The whole off season there has been talk about getting an Ace from Cliff Lee to Zack Greinkie to Josh Johnson and we didnt get any of those so now we go to the Mid teir pitchers like Buhrle and Wandy Rodriguez well here are some of the pitchers i think the Rangers should go after (BESIDES JJ) and id like to hear what some of you guys think as well

Wandy Rodriguez
Fausto Carmona
Brett Myers
Gavin Floyd
Anibal Sanchez

donnie in dallas, will, wallace, andy in arlington, bob, and bill are all jdb.

please ignore.

Thanks.

Joe

So, let's see... Forget Myers and Wandy. The team has to at least put up a front that it's going to try to compete this year. If and when they(Houston) are killed during April, May, and June - then yeah, around the ASB those guys should be available for a steep price. But not now.

I don't know about Sanchez, but I expect they want to keep him, since he's young, cheap, controllable, and pretty good.

Floyd and Carmona - are either of those guys that much better than what you already have? And are CHW and CLE really willing to trade those guys before the season starts? Unlikely.

All that to say, your list is just fantasy baseball talk. Sorry mate, but that's the way it goes.

Of the names you listed Gavin Floyd is the most intriguing to me. Wandy and Brett Myers are both good, but have no experience in the AL. I don't think Florida will deal Sanchez right now and Carmona is a huge question mark. Gavin is extremely inconsistent, but when he is right, he is very good. The White Sox might need to dump some salary so he or Edwin Jackson would be worth looking in to.

Thanks some other pitchers i thought about were...
Edwin Jackson
James Shields
These are guys i think they should go after if/when their respective teams fall out of contention
Chad Billingsly
Ryan Dempster

I like Billingsly. What would we have to give up for him? Shields is a guy whose value will rise rapidly if he has a good first half. If he struggles I expect there to be almost no market for him.

I have a hunch that the Rangers rotation is going to break out in 2011 and that while we will be in the market for an ace we will not be looking, or needing, anything less at the trade deadline. There is just so much depth here that has been building that it is reaching a critical mass for one or two of these guys to click. Mike Maddux's presence over the last couple years is also going to reach a critical point of influence especially with these high ceiling guys.

We have tons of high ceiling depth in

CJ, Colby, Holland, Feliz, and Webb. And Hurley and Beltre could also click while I'm not sure they belong in a high ceiling category. If CJ and Colby hold the line it only takes one of these guys to click to very significantly improve the rotation.

and good mid to bottom of the rotation depth as well in

Kirkman, Harrison, Feldman, Ogando, Hunter

and there is always the possibility that high ceiling prospect Martin Perez could click and make his debut by the end of the year. Hunter or Kirkman could easily be a solid number 5 starter for you.

The more I think about it the more optimistic I am about our chances to really take off this year with starting pitching. And I know you can go down the list and start doubting "will CJ regresss" "didnt Colby play above his ability" and that is a good exercise, but I also think its a good exercise to just stop and think about the fact that if just one or two guys click we could be in for a 100 win season.

So, other than aces, I'm just not all that interested in trade for starting pitching. Of course that could chance a lot as the year wears on. We should wait and see where our depth gets us and we can always go after a guy if we have to.

Is there any interest in picking up Armando Galarraga off waivers?

I don't really see picking up Galaraga as a good move for us. His numbers over the last few years suggest he just isn't that good. I don't think he is that much better if any than what we already have.

Just because we have depth in starting pitchers, you also have to consider the quality of that depth.

How many guys do you absolutely trust after CJ and Colby?

Hunter? His stuff isn't good enough to not worry about him.

Holland? As much as I think he is going to be a very good #2 one day, he hasn't shown it yet consistently.

Webb? Well, he was hurt. We all know how that goes.

Kirkman, Beltre, Ogando, Harrison, Feliz? All of these guys can do it in the minors, no question. Three out of the five look like they can have very successful careers. Aside from that, it's tough to make a huge leap in one year. Feliz has a canon, sure, everyone knows that. Is his slider/curve enough to make him a two pitch pitcher? Can Beltre get out big leaguers consistently? Can Ogando move from the bullpen to the rotation and not break down? Harrison? Enough said.

I guess what I'm getting at is optimism is great. I've had it for the past three years about all our young guys. I want to see it happen, its just hard for me to be as excited as I have been before.

Word is that Chicago is, in fact, open to dealing Floyd. Not neccesarily saying I'm interested, but it's on the table.

I find the idea that the rotation has great depth suspect. I have no faith in Hunter, and Webb's arm could fall off in Spring Training, which means we have exactly 2 proven Big League arms in the rotation equation at the moment. That said, I think there's a pretty good chance that Holland and Webb prove to be an easily good enough 3-4 in the rotation, and that you can cobble together a #5 from somewhere, so I don't think it's panic time by any means. But I would explore any solid #3 starters on the market.

Philly,

I don't think you had much reason to be too optimistic in years past, but I am suggesting that this year you have a lot better reason to be optimistic about the rotation. The depth is simply more than years past with options (yes, unproven options) coming out of our ears that we did not have before.

Scooby,

Here is a question for you. Would you rather have 4 big league proven arms or 2 proven arms and all of the prospect depth and possibilities that we have. I think our depth, while it is unproven, actually has just as good a chance to perform well as some teams proven starters have (assuming that anyone has such a rotation save the Giants and Philles and Im not saying we have a chance to perform on that level). Further, there is a decent chance that our depth provides significantly better performance than a team with 4 proven starter arms, assuming those arms include one ace and average options at the number 2, 3, and 4 spots.

Joe

Last year we had depth in quality arms up to about 8 or 9 starters and we needed it all because of injuries and other challenges, and this year we have about 12 such arms and of higher quality as well. If last year two pitchers had break out years, Lewis and CJ, I am willing to bet that at least 1 and possibly even 2 of our starters breaks out in a similar fashion as did CJ and Colby a year ago.

I would take our depth over 4 "proven arms" (that are just as susceptible to injury as unproven arms are) any day. I think its more fun and our ceiling is higher, a lot higher.

The Texas rotation is going to break out and improve in 2011 by adding 1-3 good arms and possibly one excellent arm (I like Holland's and Webb's chances).

MARK MY WORDS, by the All Star Break not one of you will be talking about going after a solid number 2 or number 3 starter, we will be talking ace ace ace and we will be willing to stand pat if we can't get one.

Sorry for the extreme mark my words bull shit, that's just my personality and I'm willing to leave it out there today and make the call. I called a Josh Hamilton home run at Camden Yards last year. I just knew it, and I stood up and put my arm in the air, and the pitch came and he blasted it over the CF wall, slightly toward left center. Had to be one of the best calls I've ever made, just knew it. I also caught Nelson Cruz's blast that made it 10-3 at Yankee Stadium in Game 4 of the ALCS! That was the best baseball experience of my life! The fans mobbed me and threw beer on me and all I did was make my way to the first row, leaned over the railing lifting the baseball, and yelled in primal triumph...we had finally avenged those three years in the late 90's when I watched in dejected silence as the damned Yankees took us apart. I think we will get to the Series again next year but whether we can beat that Phil/San Fran pitching is another question entirely.

With the Rangers' offense and defense, I'd rather have an Ace and 3 sure-thing 2-WAR guys behind him than CJ, Colby, and what we've got. Eliminate the downside risk. Now, if I had the Giants' offense, I might rather roll with the upside possibilities.

I'd feel much more comfortable with 3 proven arms, and asking Webb, Hunter, Feldman, and the Kids to fill out just 2 spots than I do with 2 proven arms, and asking that bunch to fill out 3 spots.

If you could find a legit #3 SP right now, the odds are almost zero that by the All-Star Break, he's been pushed out of the rotation because THREE of the myriad guys behind him have proven to be performing at #3 starter-or-better rates. Even if you go get a #3 now, and CJ and Colby repeat last season's performances, and let's say, Holland busts out as a true #2, and either Webb bounces back big-time or else maybe Kirkman shows up as a true #3 or whatever, you've still greatly improved your ballclub by adding that true #3 because he's now your #5. He's still taking the bump every 5th day, just as often as CJ or Colby, and if someone gets injured (which happens every year), he moves back up to the #4 slot (which means you're covered for your playoff rotation).

There is good upside to this season's rotation. No question. But there is downside risk as well. If we get an injured/ineffective Webb, the 2008/2010 Feldman instead of the 2009 Feldman, and the Kids don't bust out Big Time, the 3-4-5 slots could easily end up looking like they used to in the Bad Old Days.

Now, if you really love Hunter, and feel he's a proven Big League arm, and that he's no worse than a solid #4 SP, then I understand being comfortable with this. But for those of us who feel that the clock will strike Midnight and Tommy H will turn into a Pumpkin, this rotation has scary downside as well as it's good upside.

The idea that this team will have so much good pitching that it will just have no use for a true #3 SP is very unlikely to actually come about. True #3s are very good pitchers, and are fairly hard to find.

Scooby,

We shall see. I like your reasoning but it is going against my special calling powers, its more of a gut call than anything I'm making.

Joe

Where I think we agree, joe, is that I wouldn't want to trade for a guy who has posted one solid #3 starter season in the last 4 years, to go with 3 sub-par seasons. And that seems to be most of what's out there. But I'd be thrilled to find a legit, year-in-and-year-out #3 guy available.

Scooby,

So you would rather have a 5 or 6 WAR ace and three 2 WAR guys behind him?

That's 11-12 WAR. We could easily have 8 WAR alone in CJ and Colby. For 3 WAR in the 3rd and 4th spots I will take our higher upside kids and Webb. Its risky especially if you slip below replacement but its worth the risk, at least to stand pat to see what our guys can do. I suspect that our comfort level is going to grow throughout the season but we can always go get someone by the deadline if we have to.

Joe

Scooby,

What do you think about standing pat and seeing what we get especially considering the few options in a solid number 3 guy right now?

Joe

Joe,

I think you're crazy if you wouldn't take 12 WAR from the 1-4 slots in the rotation and take that to the bank right now. If the Rangers get 12 WAR from rotation 1-4, with the division's best offense, defense, and bullpen, that's a division title in the bank. If the offense, defense, and bullpen had the combined look of an 85-win team instead of a 92-93-win team, that's a whole different story. Then you might need more WAR from the rotation, and you might gamble on young upside. But 12 WAR would be more than enough to lock the division down. Given the weak division, I'd rather bank 94ish wins now than have a spread from 85-100 wins depending on how the high-variability rotation shakes out.

Scooby,

I think you are putting to much emphasis on what is essentially 3-4 WAR, assuming that our 3, 4, 5 guys are able to at least muster replacement. If I had the choice, again, I would choose to gamble with three WAR for our potential higher upside of adding up to 5-7 WAR in those same spots if Webb comes back to some measure of his old self and if just one other of our higher upside guys clicks (Feliz, Holland, Hurley and Beltre).

Joe

Floyd's okay, but why blow your prospects now when you can save em for the trade deadline where you can get someone much better than Floyd? I am hoping they go with the depth and let some of these guys show what they can do. The bullpen should be awesome, too, which always helps.

I know hes not an Ace or anything close to a reliable starter but Id like to take a shot at Homer Baily this guy was a first round draft pick and at one time the best pitching prospect in baseball and must be oozing with talent but for some reason hasnt put everything together in the majors. I think with some coaching from Maddux he could make everything click in Arlington. What would it take to get him over here?

Before you all start bashing me consider this...
His ERA was kinda high at 4.46 and i think alot of it had to do with his .320 BABIP and with a great Defense like Texas has i think that could come down to about .280
His FIP was 3.74
and he had a WAR of 1.9 in only 109 Innings
I think this guy just needs a change of senery and i think Texas would be the perfect place considering Maddux and Texas great D and i dont think the ballpark will have much of an effect because hes coming from that tinny ballpark in Cinnciinnatti. plus hes from Texas!

@ Joe: The point is that if Webb comes back to his old self (and while I think solid #3 is not out of the question, I think it's overwhelmingly unlikely that he looks anything like his old self) and one of our higher upside guys click, plus CJ and Colby, that's still only 4 starters. It would be REALLY nice to add a 3rd reliable arm, so that you only need to fill 2 slots from Webb and that list of Kids.

Not bashing you, Martin - but to think that Texas can just go around pillaging young talent from other clubs "willy nilly" as they say, is just not the way the game works.

Im not saying the Rangers r just guna TAKE him.
Maybe they could make a Josh Hamilton for Volquez kinda deal worked out.