What is your opinion of the A.J. Pierzynski signing?
MJH on accountability
Is it possible they are going after Soriano as a starter?
You give him a base salary of what he would get as a closer with incentives if he contributes as a starter, you tell him he will be stretched out to compete for a starting spot, and finally, that he will be assured of the closer role so long as he doesn't make the rotation.
What sayest thou?
It only works for him if he wants a much harder and more important gig than a closer, but if he is driven maybe he would want that chance, along with the extra cash if he succeeds, and the zero downside if he doesn't.
I admit my ignorance on Soriano's best pitches as well as his injury history. Can anyone fill me in? Is he a viable candidate to start?
Can anyone fill me in on the effect on the draft pick situation if the Rangers sign Soriano?
2nd Round pick for Soriano since we lost the 1st with Beltre
Thanks, get it.
No we lose the first to TB and second to BOS bc Soriano was ranked higher then Beltre
Ah, didn't realize that. Either way I guess we're out our 1st and 2nd, but we still recouped the Phillies 1st and supplemental 2nd? for Lee right.
I know JD doesn't ever want to overpay for bullpen depth, but maybe he would be willing to sign Soriano if there was a chance he could move to the rotation. Heck, why not tell Soriano that he will have a chance to make the rotation over a three year contract, and that he would be compensated for his work if he does make it during any of those years? Tell him that if he pitches over 150 innings in a given year, something he could only do as a starter, that an extra few million will kick in.
I like the idea of moving Feliz to the rotation more because of his youth and upside. If he were to transition in to a TORP like scouts say he has the potential to be, he would be controllable for several more years at a reasonable salary. If we sign Soriano for 3 years and he is a successful started for 2 of them it wouldn't be bad, but a cheaper Feliz for 3 or 4 more years is more valuable to me.
I like your thought process Joe. Does anyone know his pitch set and if it could translate to a starter?
I'm with LFloyd... The risk/reward ratio is so much greater with a Feliz move to the bullpen... If the talent evaluators think Soriano has a 60% shot at being a quality starter and Feliz only 10% then it makes sense to try Soriano there... If they have roughly the same odds at succeeding as a starter then I would be all for putting Feliz in the rotation. Feliz succeeding in the rotation would mean a lot for this team and the future construction of our ball club. Especially if he reaches that true ace potential that we have seen glimpses of.
I understand Feliz and Ogando are both candidates for the rotation, but Wash expresses a desire to keep Feliz at the back end to give him time to develop. Why not sign Soriano and take the guy that performs the best in spring training and move your other guy to the closer role. OR, if both make the rotation move Frank Fransisco or Ogando to the closer role and put Hunter in the bullpen as your long man. I think JD is unwilling to pay big cash to bullpen guys so I think if we sign Soriano giving him a chance to start could be key. The best thing for Soriano is that he gets a chance to start, potentially make more money, and be a more important pitcher to a winning team, and he doesn't even have to sacrifice anything in return as he is assured closer duties and salary if he doesn't make the rotation.
I agree with LFloyd. It makes more sense to sign Soriano as a bullpen piece or an eventual closer if Feliz is moved into the rotation. Which would make more sense than trying to convert Soriano. Although, I'm not familiar with Soriano's pitches and if his repertoire is more suitable to be transitioned into the starting rotation, than Feliz's currently is. Either way, to me, it makes more since to transition the younger arm with more club control.
So which great pitcher would you rather have as a starter: Soriano or Feliz?
Answer: why not both?
Further, we have Feliz for a long time. He needs more time to develop his secondary pitches which is something he can do over the next year or two if he doesn't make the rotation. We wouldn't be losing out on Feliz as a starter even in the next couple years. Its not a question of either or. Its a win-win because if you sign Soriano both guys have a chance to start for you and both guys can close for you. Where they end up would just depend on who shows Wash and Maddux what Wash and Maddux needs to see.
Because I'd rather have a proven closer pitching for me in the 9th. Both Feliz and Soriano are that. So why not use one of them there? I'd feel more comfortable leaving Francisco and Ogando as part of the bridge to the 9th.
But if you're willing to take two guys who have never started and transition them into starters and then entrust Frankie Frank and Ogando to close out ballgames... go for it.
Joe, you always have very creative ideas, but sometimes things are "inside the box" for a reason... not saying you're wrong -- but I think it's highly unlikely that the Rangers would sign a top closer to go along with their already top closer and then move both guys to the rotation. One, yes... very likely, and to me, it would make the most sense for that guy to be Feliz. However, both guys? I don't see it happening. They'd both have to go through a season-long transition of having to think and pitch like a SP and rely on their secondary pitches more than they ever have -- and by doing so, you weaken your bullpen and rotation, which then taxes your bullpen. CJ was successful because he was a SP doing late inning bullpen work. The guy has a ton of pitches and actually had to learn to just throw the heat in the bullpen and not worry about setting guys up with secondary pitches, so transitioning from the bullpen to a SP was perfect for him... because that was already his mindset.
But that's just my opinion... again, not saying you're wrong or trying to attack you.
The following is from SBnation.com
Assets Has an extremely live arm and great stuff. His fastball can get into the upper 90s and he mixes in a good slider and change. Can work himself out of jams.
* Is injury-prone, which hinders his overall value. Can give up too many long balls when he starts losing trust in his ability in tight spots.
* Dominant late-inning reliever, when healthy. * AwardsAL - Rolaids Relief ManNamed to the All-Star GameCalifornia League (A) - All-Star Team
And here is his injury and transaction history
December 10, 2009 Acquired from the Atlanta Braves.December 7, 2009 Re-signed by the Tampa Bay Rays to a one-year contract.August 19, 2009 Missed 2 games (right shoulder injury).August 17, 2009 Right shoulder injury, day-to-day.September 2, 2008 Transferred from the 15-day DL to the 60-day DL (right elbow inflammation).August 3, 2008 Right elbow inflammation, 15-day DL.July 21, 2008 Missed 37 games (right elbow injury).June 14, 2008 Right elbow injury, 15-day DL (retroactive to June 6).June 13, 2008 Right elbow injury, day-to-day.May 28, 2008 Missed 46 games (elbow injury).April 9, 2008 Elbow injury, 15-day DL.January 24, 2008 Re-signed by the Atlanta Braves to a two-year contract.September 28, 2007 Suspension reduced by MLB from 4 to 2 games.September 20, 2007 Suspended by MLB for 4 games.January 16, 2007 Re-signed by the Atlanta Braves to a one-year contract.October 2, 2006 Missed the last 30 games of the regular season (concussion).August 30, 2006 Concussion, day-to-day.August 4, 2006 Missed 12 games (right shoulder injury).July 29, 2006 Right shoulder injury, 15-day DL (retroactive to July 20).July 4, 2006 Missed 5 games (right shoulder injury).July 3, 2006 Right shoulder injury, day-to-day.December 30, 2005 Re-signed by the Seattle Mariners to a one-year contract.September 5, 2005 Missed 136 games (tommy John surgery).April 1, 2005 Tommy John surgery, 60-day DL.October 4, 2004 Missed 131 games to the end of the regular season (right elbow injury).May 11, 2004 Right elbow injury, 15-day DL (retroactive to May 10th).May 4, 2004 Recalled from San Antonio (AA).April 14, 2004 Optioned to Inland Empire (A).June 16, 2003 Recalled from Tacoma (AAA).May 8, 2003 Optioned to Tacoma (AAA).April 24, 2003 Recalled from Tacoma (AAA).March 29, 2003 Optioned to Tacoma (AAA).March 2, 2003 Re-signed by the Seattle Mariners to a one-year contract.August 2, 2002 Missed 26 games (strained right shoulder) and optioned to San Antonio (AA).July 10, 2002 Strained right shoulder, 15-day DL.May 8, 2002 Recalled from San Antonio (AA).March 14, 2002 Optioned to San Antonio (AA).February 11, 2002 Re-signed by the Seattle Mariners to a minor league contract.March 13, 2001 Optioned to San Bernadino (A).
Put a fork in this idea guys. He probably needs one more pitch to succeed as a starter and after his 2005 Tommy John surgery he has had a history of throwing arm inflamation almost every year.
Soriano throws a fastball, slider, and cutter, it looks like he scrapped the change this year looking at FanGraphs. This is very much a late innings set of pitches and though having a variety of pitch types is not the only thing that translates to success as a starter it certainly doesn't hurt.
Also I suggest you read this:
As well as this:
Yes. Soriano is a late inning guy and nothing more.
Thanks for the constructive criticism. You are right about Feliz and Soriano. However, in a hypothetical situation I would not rule out the possibility however slim of moving them both (in the event that Soriano was a viable option which he is not according to the scouting and injury reports).
I was responding more to the idea that one would have to chose between Feliz or Soriano. I found that unconvincing because such a choice would obviously be made based on performance. Further, moving Soriano this year (if that were viable which it isn't) would not preclude moving Feliz next year, or in the very unlikely event that moving both would work even this year (or next). If it didn't work out for one of them it could be that the rotation depth is such that a failure would hurt the team less, and then you just move the guy back to the pen.
I like your line that "sometimes things are inside the box for a reason." Very true. One thing I like so much about JD is that he seems to entertain all possible scenarios, which makes one far less likely to miss out on good ideas because they do not conform to the common mindset about things. I guess my advice in response would be, don't be afraid to think outside the box even if the likelihood of a certain idea working out is slim because up to 1-10 percent of the time that wild idea is going to work out and that gives you an edge over your competitors. Further, there's plenty of in the box stuff going around. I'd rather push the envelope and sound dumb (note the name of this post (intriguing or dumb?) than go around saying the same stuff everyone else is and sounding smart like the conformer.
Finally, thanks for your comments as they provide excellent food for thought. As one willing to criticize others harshly (so long as it is constructive) I appreciate the same from you and anyone else.
The more I think about it, the more Soriano makes sense. We need a quality set-up man. Although we have Frankie, who always makes me nervous, when he was injured our bullpen looked horrible. I'm not saying Frankie wont be able to get it done this season but if Soriano or Frankie hit the DL for some time, which will probably happen a la Kinsler, we will have a superior backup to fill the role. When both are healthy, it gives flexibility for Nefti to start or create the best bullpen in the majors. Soriano sounds like Frankie 2.0 with a little more skill.
I think everyone likes Soriano for a closer, its just all about whether you are willing to spend that much on him. 8 mil over 3 years. I don't think so. Max 6 over three, 8 over 2, maybe. Maybe JD is trying to get the Angels to panick and go and overpay for him. His injury history should also be a hindrance to him getting 8 million a year in that role. Then again, maybe JD talks a big game about not over paying for bullpen help because they plan on taking Soriano at the last miinute, and want to try to keep the price low.
Yeah I think my max is 20 over 3 years and hopefully 15 over 2. Adding Soriano could provide the Rangers with a ton of flexibility and insurance just like moving Young to the DH/ Utility role has.
Any pitcher in the bigs should be able to come in with 0 on and no out and get out of the inning without giving up a run. I'm not a big fan of the idea of closers in general, but if you bring in Soriano he should be the closer and the Rangers should see what Feliz has as a starter. Even if that means starting the season at AAA.
We're just a bit too excited about Soriano. I doubt the Rangers sign a closer for that much money, and I further doubt they would consider turning him into a starter if they did. IF (and, again, I think it's a very big IF) they signed a closer type, it would be to facilitate moving Feliz or Ogando into the rotation.
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